Duno. We’ll just have to wait for duke.
The other people are missing for most of the time too.
Posts made by tekkyy
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Technology
@Imperious:
If DAS work for both dogfighting and ground support then why should DAS air force retreat after attacking air force is destroyed?
+++++ This is not exact interpretation of the rule as written: DAS is allowed to stay and help its units defend untill the attacker has broken off the attack. At this point the attacker will probably retreat w/o his own air support… but if he wants he can continue.Ok so DAS air force can retreat at time. But must retreat when attack (or defender) retreats completely.
If DAS is also possible if attacker do not send air units…then “ground radars” no longer remove the 1-combat-cycle response latency of DAS?
++++++well not exactly the one round thing is if the planes are adjacent and not actually in the attacked territory. This promotes disbursement of your air force and a more historically realistic strategy.if planes are adjacent?
So “reduce by” rather than “remove” 1-combat-cycle latency? But DAS must be from adjacent territories right?not actually in the attacked territory?
Are you saying DAS can be from the territory itself? But don’t they just fight normally? To say those air units are doing DAS as well would be confusing.So if you have the “powerful computer” technology, successful rolls now give you 2 boxes instead of 1 (for certain technologies).
+++++ AHHH! i didnt see that coming! thats a good idea… i would rephrase it because the word computer was not really in use at this time.Ok good.
+++++ ok on asw we only really need:
- something to allow the use of planes in ASW search
- something to allow fighters/divebombers ability to attack subs in asw
- something to say “your sucess roll for asw search and destroy has gone up from 2 to 3”
thats it… i was using asw 1,2,3 for simplicity.
Ok I see….so something like…
- -> naval radar?
- -> air dropped depth charge?
- -> ***?
what can you add to that list?
Mech infantry?
Some of our new units can be purchasable after technology acquired?
Say did everyone have dive bombers at the beginning? -
RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Technology
@Imperious:
What happens if attacker does not send planes?Â
+++ lol then the defender does not play any DAS mission.Oh, so DAS is only for dogfighting not ground support?
+++ good question! I think defending planes should be allowed to defend ro come in on the second combat round if adjacent. Yes so DASÂ works under either contition.And once attacking air force is destroyed DAS air force retreats?
++++yesWhen can you send DAS if the enemy attacks with air units only? land units only? both?
If DAS work for both dogfighting and ground support then why should DAS air force retreat after attacking air force is destroyed?
Now finally back to where we started….technology!
If DAS is also possible if attacker do not send air units…then “ground radars” no longer remove the 1-combat-cycle response latency of DAS?
Oh no just general computing power. It is used not only for decoding but also gun fires, attack planning, etc…instead of relying on mathematicians.
++++ hmmm not sure about its relavence in this format… with details explain how it could work?Yep that was what I mentioned too. I was only considering its effect on acquiring other technologies.
+++++ with this im really not sure its purpose.
Well it speeds up other acquiring of certain technologies.
So if you have the “powerful computer” technology, successful rolls now give you 2 boxes instead of 1 (for certain technologies).
atomic bombs
surface to air missiles ( v-2/a-4)
heavy tanks
long range artillery ( rail guns)
artificial harbors (mulberry)
jet fighters
jet bombers
long range aircraft
super battleships
super subs ( electro boats)
ASW 1,2,3
efficiant factories ( underground?)
self propelled artillery
chemical weapons
naval sonar
radar
enemy code broken ( you can react to his attacks with some benifit)
guided torpedos?
lance torpedo ( used for shallow waters)
better weapons ( mp44 submachine gun?)I would probably cut out “chemical weapons” and “better weapons”.
And I hope we could have just “ASW” not 3 levels. -
RE: AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat
@Imperious:
(No return fire for this case or for land/naval/air retreats?)
++++ naw not fair.I used the wrong word. Its “parting shot”.
Now to be clear.
No more “parting shot” for all combats?Say attacker has 3 ARM left, defender retreats 3 INF and leaves 2 ARM behind…should the 3 attacking ARM be able to envelop the retreating defending INF?
+++ yes two rolls capturing them on a six 1-5 no effect ( they retreat) defending tanks dont “sheild” this. presumably the territory is large and getting surrounded can occur within other parts of the same territory ( look at western europe… its a huge area)… remember that in the stated example tank hits go on enemy tanks before another unit.
Firstly we should make it capture on “1” rather than “6”, to be inline with general axis and allies rolling.
Now, I understand a territory is a large area. But I think its more realistic if only attacking ARM in excess (1-to-1 to defending remaining to fight) should take part in capturing.
I mean consider another example.
Attacker has 3 ARM left. Defender has more…say 5 ARM and 5 INF left.
But defender chooses to retreat the 5 INF anyway…for whatever reason.++++ you dont need this… this example is quite remote for practical play and at most theirs allways one spot to retreat too because of interior lines. at most one other battle board.
You mean if there is one or more adjacent friendly territories with no “pending combat” then you must choose among those? No option to check two combats cycle by cycle in that case?
++++ huh? its allready stated NOT MORE THAN ONE MISSION AS DEFENDER OR ATTACKER.
exceptions is air transport for bombers.Firstly, we take “Air Transport” as a special non-combat move, one that is allowed even after taking part in combat?
Now, I was talking about if units that performed a mission can still fight?
Say a FTR performed DAS, can it still combat after it finish the mission?UK attacks “Western Europe”. A German FTR at “Germany” comes to perform DAS in “Western Europe”.
When finished it retreats to “Germany”.
But “Germany” happens to be under attack too…can it take part in defending “Germany”?If it can’t, how do we keep track?
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
@Imperious:
Any of the Neutrals with insignificant or close to non-existent military deserve a VC?
++++ possibly persia ( mosul) as an oil center… problem is its easy to capture w/o military forces.[/quote
Um…Persia is not Neutral?
By the way I do have Persia as a Victory City in my version of VC list.
As for oil center…are you talking about “oil rules”?[/quote]
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RE: AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat
@Imperious:
Air and naval units “withdraw” when they “retreat”, hence no return fire or live capture.
+++ no return fire… but looking at forcing each defending infantry to roll d6 and a one result = capture… what you think?
(No return fire for this case or for land/naval/air retreats?)
Yeah we discussed a little about “live capture” before.
As before I think it should depend on relative army sizes.
We don’t want 1 ARM to capture many many INF.So instead of one roll for each retreating defending INF…it should be each attacking ARM.
And then I think artillery is slow too so should be envelopable too?
But if defender has land units left to fight…would all this still make sense?
Say attacker has 3 ARM left, defender retreats 3 INF and leaves 2 ARM behind…should the 3 attacking ARM be able to envelop the retreating defending INF?
So its quite complex.
+++ok sure. The pending combat thing is not that big a deal. if it is then each territory can be done together round by round so that if any retreating territories are lost then the fight is to the death at least for defender.
Thats what I was thinking too. Very realistic.
But I am scared of having so many “combat boards”?Pending combat can be a big deal. Defending units can end up fighting in more than one combat while attacking units can’t?
Imagine the powerful FTR piece defending at 4…defending at multiple territories…Of course we could not let the units participate in more than 1 combat…but gotta think of the rule to deal with that.
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
++++ those nations had significant military… id add a victory city in ankarra and madrid… most strategic wargames like this have that
So no VC for Sweden.
Any of the Neutrals with insignificant or close to non-existent military deserve a VC?
Where shall Spain’s navy be and can you attack them?
++++ in portSo in effect these naval units are out of the game until Spain joins Axis or Allies.
Starting position
We are moving along great. Lets start plotting some starting positions of the neutrals. As mentioned so far identified are pro-axis Switzerland, Sweden, Spain, Argentina?
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Technology
lol try not to reply in the form of moderating my post, because I can’t tell from the forum page whether you’ve replied!
What happens if attacker does not send planes?
+++ lol then the defender does not play any DAS mission.Oh, so DAS is only for dogfighting not ground support? And once attacking air force is destroyed DAS air force retreats?
++++ how does computer tech apply? you mean the enigma machine? the machine that was decoded by british intelligence?
Oh no just general computing power. It is used not only for decoding but also gun fires, attack planning, etc…instead of relying on mathematicians.
Hence I was thinking certain technologies should be easier to get with computer power. One book mentions electronic computer would have speed up the Mahattan project. (Among with theories that US government always had more computing power than we know…)
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Naval Combat
oh crap I ended up wiping out your reply…
for the record you’ve agree to not use the token, submarines can still submerge or retreat like surface ships@Imperious:
That island part we’ve gotta look into. Are you modelling coastal batteries or something?
++++ not at all… just putting the shortest method to describe the idea of not allowing the retreat to become an ‘opportunity’ to get closer to the enemy for a better strike… that is allways a problem in the oob.Then you might as well make it you gotta retreat back the direction you came from like land combat.
Otherwise you have a side effect with your enemy island rule.
Japan holds Solomon Islands.
US fleet at SZ 45 (Solomon Islands) attacks Japan fleet at SZ 44.
US fleet can’t retreat back to SZ 45? :?+++ i have to look at the map… but the retreat is basically toward your own territories/ units… it quite obvious when its just a retreat say to get at japanese transports and gain a free movement toward them.
Another example.
Japan holds Solomon Islands.
US fleet at SZ 45 (Solomon Islands) attacks Japanese fleet at SZ 44.
US feelt at SZ 43 also attacks the same Japanese fleet.Is this case can the US fleet retreat back to SZ 45?
Its “towards enemy territory” but then they did come from that direction…
Can both US fleets retreat to SZ 45, joing up?A sea zone is large and naval combat are more fluid.
But we might have to make it like land combat if you don’t want people hopping over the enemy. -
RE: AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat
So I see…
Air and naval units “withdraw” when they “retreat”, hence no return fire or live capture.
We still need to think about whether units can retreat to territories with “pending combat” in the various cases…
With defending strategic air missions I think maybe they should continue to fight from 2nd or 3rd cycle or something.But some of this stuff may not make sense unless the time aspect is tuned.
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
Spain, Sweden, and Turkey has significant military. Should they have a Victory City too?
Rio De Oro being a colony of Spain, any attack on either the colony or Spain by one team should bring them both to the other team?
Where shall Spain’s navy be and can you attack them?
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Naval Combat
Ok so you are happy with the effects.
Now, with naval retreats.
Is there a parting shot? on surface ships? submarines and air units retreat immediately without parting shot right?
Where can you retreat to? Just any friendly sea zones including those that wasn’t friendly at the beginng of the turn?
That is…
As defender, can you retreat one sea zones the attacker came from and left nothing behind?
As attacker, can you retreat to newly acquired sea zones? -
RE: AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat
So how about normal retreatments?
Can you retreat into a territory with pending combat?And how attacker must retreat attacking forces to the territory it came from…
(To stop hopping over the enemy…like in OOB rulebook example.)
it means you gotta keep track of losses according to this? You must declare exactly which unit you are using to take a hit? -
RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
@Imperious:
in fact perhaps one would be at zero… all the rest are 1-2 notches from either axis or allied camp. if we go with 3 possible outcomes we lose the “back and forth” action
Oh yeah I see. I guess we do need 5 slots.
you can invade any neutral at any time… this makes the neutral automatically join the other side as an ally.
And if you fly units through them, maybe free rolls for the other side?
Turn seqeunce
When do you decide on the rolls and when do you roll?
I think diplomacy is not like technology? So don’t need to decide at the beginning of the turn and see result at end of the turn.Maybe a “Phase 8: Diplomacy”.
Income, Military, starting neutrality
We have drafted the income list.
For military…so far I notice Argentina, Spain and Turkey should have a few INF?
And for starting neutrality…so far I notice Argentina and Sweden is pro-Axis?Afghanistan, Asia: 1 IPC
Angola, Africa: 0 IPC
Argentina, South America: 2 IPC + 2 INF?
Eire, Europe: 0 IPC
Himalaya, Asia: 0 IPC
Mongolia, Asia: 1 IPC
Mozambique, Africa: 0 IPC
Peru, South America: 1 IPC
Rio De Oro, Africa: 0 IPC
Sahara, Asia: 0 IPC
Saudi Arabia, Asia: 2 IPC
Spain, Europe: 4 IPC + 4 INF?
Sweden, Europe: 2 IPC
Switzerland, Europe: 1 IPC
Turkey, Europe: 3 IPC + 3 INF?
Venezuela, South America: 1 IPC -
RE: Adding Minor Allies
Well the time aspect is heavily abstracted in Axis and Allies.
Realistically combat should be able to happen simultaneously, or not necessarily at the same time.
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Naval Combat
1 US DD at SZ 11.
1 US CV at SZ 17.
1 German SS at SZ 12.US declares DD at SZ 11 move into SZ 13 through SZ 12.
Before US (or other Allies powers) finishes declaring their movement, (which could involve US CV move from SZ 17 to SZ 13) Germany must declare whether to submerge SS?1 US BMR at Gibraltar.
1 US CV at SZ 11.
1 German SS at SZ 12.However, here US can’t do the same trick, the BMR is not gonna help open the path for the CV to go from SZ 11 to SZ 13.
All this is due to abstraction of time in OOB?
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RE: AARHE: Phase 3: land Combat
Because they could end up fighting again.
But if we don’t let retreatment into territories with pending-combat, it gets restrictive. -
RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals
Ok in your 5 slot system, at which point can you invade them?
Sweden gave income to Germany in WWII right? But Allies didn’t invade them did they?adjacent territories - fixed, you’ve got a +1 +2 +3 scheme
frequent switching - fixed, can’t go back towards netural as soon as level +3 or -3?
occupying forces - fixed, since you can only have occupying force if you become full Axis or full Allies
But I worry 5 steps is too long for Neutrals to join up.
Now about back to 3 steps again, but air space before income.+3 Allies control
+2 Allies income
+1 Allies air space
0 Neutral
-1
-2
-3Now you have time to counter before physical advantage such as income comes into effect.
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RE: AARHE: Phase 2: Technology
@Imperious:
ASW allows planes eventually to have the ability to attack ships in conjunction with ships its a perfected technique.
You meant “allows planes eventually to have the ability to attack subs in conjunction wit ships” right?
++++ right
++++++ ground radar allows you to see and react to planes coming overhead. For the game it can possibly allow DAS in the same round rather than having to wait one round for planes to assist.
What happens if attacker does not send planes? :?
+++ lol then the defender does not play any DAS mission.
underground factories? I feel this should be an IC upgrade purchased rather than researched
+++++ The practical value could be better efficiency and -1 on all armor and plane costs…[/quote[Cheaper units? I was thinking more like resistance to SBR and our “production interruption”.
+++ ok that would work how would the production thing work in that case?
[quote]please list what you think all these tech should be. id say about 15 items
You’ve covered pretty much everything. Except computers, which is quite major.
But this one is tough to model.
Stronger attack can’t be justified, not even with D12 system.
Quicker attack organisation can’t be modelled currently, with no time limit per turn.
Only thing would be certain technologies should be easier to research after you’ve got “computer” technology.
These would probably be atomic, rocketry, jet, sonar and radar.++++ how does computer tech apply? you mean the enigma machine? the machine that was decoded by british intelligence?