London taken with loss of 1inf :-D
Hol
3inf, 2art, 3ftr, 2tac
Rolls: 1@1, 4@2, 3@3, 2@4; Total Hits: 51@1,: (5)4@2,: (5, 3, 2, 4)3@3,: (2, 3, 1)2@4: (6, 3)
def 1inf
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)
London taken with loss of 1inf :-D
Hol
3inf, 2art, 3ftr, 2tac
Rolls: 1@1, 4@2, 3@3, 2@4; Total Hits: 51@1,: (5)4@2,: (5, 3, 2, 4)3@3,: (2, 3, 1)2@4: (6, 3)
def 1inf
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)
whew!!!…
1inf, 1art, 1bmr, 1tac, 1ftr, 1BB, 1CZ
Rolls: 2@2, 2@3, 3@4; Total Hits: 52@2,: (5, 4)2@3,: (1, 3)3@4: (2, 3, 2)
def 3inf
Rolls: 3@2; Total Hits: 13@2: (6, 3, 1)
GER 2
Buy-$70- 8TT, 1SS- no change
***Good lookin out on the convoy, sorry about the 1round battle- looks like its all good anyway. OK, this is a little out of the ordinary for me- it could cost me the game- but its just too juicy to pass up. Knowing you EM- I’m probably taking the bait- here goes…
to London
1inf, 1art fm Ger via 1TT fm z112
1BB, 1CZ fm z112 to z110
1bmr fm Ger
1tac, 1ftr fm z112
to Gre
5inf fm Bulg, 3tnk fm Yugo
to Hol
3inf, 2art, 3ftr, 2tac fm Ger
to Norm
whole force fm Paris
CB
London
3AA
Rolls: 3@1; Total Hits: 03@1: (4, 6, 5)
Egy- repelled
NCM- on map
Placement- 1art on SIta, 1SS on z95
Collect- $16
rd 4
Rolls: 1@3; Total Hits: 11@3: (2)
def
Rolls: 3@2; Total Hits: 13@2: (3, 1, 6)
rd 3
1inf, 2tnk
Rolls: 1@1, 2@3; Total Hits: 11@1,: (2)2@3: (1, 5)
def
Rolls: 4@2; Total Hits: 24@2: (6, 2, 3, 2)
rd 2
2inf, 2tnk
Rolls: 2@1, 2@3; Total Hits: 12@1,: (5, 6)2@3: (5, 3)
def
Rolls: 5@2; Total Hits: 15@2: (4, 1, 5, 4, 6)
Sud twnl
Egy
4inf, 2tnk, 2CZ, 1BB
Rolls: 4@1, 4@3, 1@4; Total Hits: 24@1,: (6, 3, 3, 2)4@3,: (5, 6, 4, 3)1@4: (2)
def
4inf, 1mec, 2art
Rolls: 7@2; Total Hits: 27@2: (4, 2, 1, 3, 3, 5, 5)
Alex twnl
Sud
2inf, 1art
Rolls: 1@1, 2@2; Total Hits: 21@1,: (1)2@2: (2, 6)
def
1inf
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (4)
Tun twlo 1inf
Alex
2inf, 1art
Rolls: 1@1, 2@2; Total Hits: 11@1,: (4)2@2: (3, 1)
def
1inf
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 01@2: (6)
z93 cwlo 1ftr, 1SS
Tun
1inf, 1art, 1mec
Rolls: 2@1, 1@2; Total Hits: 12@1,: (6, 4)1@2: (2)
def
1inf
Rolls: 1@2; Total Hits: 11@2: (2)
SFra twlo 1inf
z93
2ftr, 1tac, 1DD, 1SS
Rolls: 2@2, 2@3, 1@4; Total Hits: 32@2,: (3, 1)2@3,: (6, 3)1@4: (1)
def
1DD, 1CZ
Rolls: 1@2, 1@3; Total Hits: 21@2,: (2)1@3: (2)
ITALY 1
Buy- $10- 1ftr- 1SS, 1art- no change
CM
to Egy
1BB, 1CZ fm z97 to z98
1CZ fm z95 to z98
1TT fm z97 to z98 loaded with 1inf, 1tnk fm Alb
1TT fm z97 to z98 loaded with 2inf fm SIta
1TT fm z95 to z98 loaded with 1inf, 1tnk fm Tob
to z93
1SS, 1DD fm z95
2ftr, 1tac fm SIta and NIta
to SFra
2inf, 2art, 1tnk fm NIta
to Alex
2inf, 1art fm Tob
to Tun
1mec fm Tob
1inf, 1art fm Lib
Ken- claimed by 1inf fm ISol
to Sud
2inf, 1art fm Eth
CM
SFra
2inf, 2art, 1tnk
Rolls: 4@2, 1@3; Total Hits: 34@2,: (3, 2, 2, 3)1@3: (3)
def 1inf, 1art
Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 12@2: (3, 1)
3.) Launch on Tokyo by round 5 or 6??? Even if the US goes 100% Pacific (at least for the first few rounds) it cannot take Tokyo unless you are playing against a moron. Seriously, Japan is not to be underestimated and you simply cannot make a blind statement like that (explain how you put yourself in that position by that round and get past the huge navy, airforce and men that Japan can put there or attack preemptively with, not to mention the kamakazis). IMHO if US goes 100% in either theater, the allies lose.
4.) Why do they always buy that? Its not always more important to buy the most punch possible if it takes too long to get into position. Try buying mech and tanks along with airpower. Germany can be at Moscow’s doorstep with (for example) 24 Inf, 5 Art, 7 Mech, 21 Tanks, and a bunch of airpower by ROUND 4 and hit Russia round 5 against 40+ Inf and maybe a couple planes and tanks (thats 100+ attack with 50+ units - not counting the luftwaffe! - vs 80-90+ defence with 40+ units ). Now Germany has time to prepare a welcoming party for those India troops since the US is busy in the Pacific with Japan (basically a 1 on 1) and Russia is dead leaving UK Europe alone against both Italy and a monster Germany. Oh yeah, and that’s NOT going sealion.
5.) Yeah UK makes cash, but Russia gives everthing to the Axis (its income when captured as well as its territorial income and dont forget about german objective income - 20 IPCs plus middle east) By round 9 or 10 UK is trying to stay alive after you have given the axis all of Asia, Europe and at least half of Africa = over half the board!! It depends on who you play against but a good axis player will take advantage of what you give him and ignor what you dont give him. Sea Lion can be good but not EVERY time. And above all else dont be predictable.
I’m not gonna waste my breath on this one… :roll:
Jen has already discussed how in detail- I suggest you go back and READ-school yourself my friend and try it!!! :-D
Is Germany destroying England’s home fleet?
What are Italy and Japan doing while UK is running rampant in Africa and the Middle East?
If India is moving significant forces west, Japan should be able to take it and the DEI easily. I’m not seeing UK having this kind of power in my games.
Also, what is Germany buying and sending against the Soviets?
Sealion can be effectively threatened without buying a single transport, and the Luftwaffe can keep London at arm’s length for a few rounds after that, allowing Germany to buy quite a few land units in the next several rounds after the first.
1.) Yes
2.) Pushing forward toward China and India
3.) India doesn’t move west right away- maybe around round 5-6. By that time US (if going 100% Pacific) has built a massive stack in the South Pacific, threatening a counter attack on DEI, launch on Tokyo itself, solidly defending ANZAC and Honolulu. India moves toward Russia when and if necessary- if Japan take the bait, the US makes them pay- very simple. Your not seeing it because nobody has the balls to try the 100% Pacific approach- don’t knock til you try. Granted you must play Russia wisely with efficient buys and such.
4.) Germany buys what they always buy- a combo of inf and art/tanks maybe a plane or two over a few rounds- in other words- efficient buys that max the most punch possible.
5.) If you go Barby, then England makes cash, you lose a VC you need- doesn’t matter if you hold them for a few rounds AND you will NOT get Africa- you make it easier for the US by round 9-10.
Don’t forget,
I’ve played India where they build up 20-30 infantry, abandon India and send all the material with planes to help defend Russia -giving US even more time to go for Axis after sacking Japan.
I’ve been following this discussion with interest, and the thing that no one has explored in depth (unless I missed it) is that Jen’s entire argument rests on Germany always doing Sealion. My question is why. What happens if Germany threatens Sealion, then only goes through with it if UK doesn’t adequately defend itself? If UK does build up a defense, then Germany goes for Moscow instead. Either way, Germany has more resources to use against the Soviets, and UK has less resources to immediately use against the Axis. Can the US realistically ignore Europe in favor of Japan under those circumstances?
Kreig, glad your following. Yes, Jen is right, Sealion IS the best option and unfortunely (unless the sea battles around England go really bad) Germany can take it every time.
By the way- does anyone know the current odds in Sealion??? In Alpha1 it was 88% victory- In Alpha2 I think its like 77% or something- lower but still high. If Larry wanted to change it- just add 2inf to London- something I suggested ages ago.
However, Sealion odds are not the problem, since Allies have the advantage in A2. The problem lies with the US-
1.) They need more incentive to commit forces to Europe. If US goes all out to sack Japan…and yes Russia CAN hold its own (I’ve played the game enough into middle rounds to see this) even with Sealion…then Axis are done for. If played correctly, barring really bad luck- Allies win consistently. This of course is not good.
2.)US still make too much money. They become beastly by round 8+. I guess they should but the Axis need long-term help to give them a fighting chance.
Kreig I’ve even thought about ALL of the following changes- extreme as they may be because of Jen observations and my own. If people follow the strategy (100%Pacific for US for the first 6 rounds) and play Russia correctly more will see. However you have to play deep into rounds like (round 10+) to actually see the effects.
Add 4inf, 1art on Tokyo
Add 2inf, 2art on Rome
Add 3inf, 1art on Berlin
Replace Mexican NO with $5 US NO that states that the Allies (US at war) must control Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Gibraltar at the same time.
@Cmdr:
Yes, I have played a few well known players on this site that all seem to be making the same mistake, they are investing in the Atlantic with the United States of America and thus, are having a bit more trouble in clearing Japan out.
Don’t get me wrong, they do eventually clear Japan out, they just have a much harder time of it than if they go whole hog after Japan. If the United States ignores the Atlantic for the first 6 rounds of play, Japan is done for. If they are more conservative, they can easily ignore the Atlantic for the first 8 rounds of play and really drive the nails into Japan. Again, all you need to do is bottle Japan up and that is no where near as hard as actually beating Japan.
Once you are too strong to beat (defined: If Japan throws it all at you, they lose and you win) all it really takes is an investment of 30-40 IPC a round to maintain your power. The other 40 IPC a round can go into the Atlantic and CRD the Europeans / Liberate England (Africa should not be lost. Unless the attack on SZ 97 went REALLY badly, Africa should be just about to capitulate to the Italians by about round 8.)
Jen, this is a great synopsis. This is the main problem- go whole hog on Japan, sack them then liberate England. Allies w/o US can hold their own I believe. I have played enough to see this. I would usually go 75% Pacific and 25% Europe with US. Though I didn’t go whole hog against Japan with US- I can easily see the plan working. USSR and UK CAN keep it together until Japan is sacked. Very convinced now that I’ve seen it on the board.
So then let’s work on solutions which should entail the US having to dedicate more to Europe- best way is through an NO I believe. Non-believers of Jen observations will gasp until they are convinced that US can sack Japan with 100% effort and none to Europe for first 6-8rounds.
So here it is:
Replaced Mexico NO with NO (US at war only) that includes Allies controlling all of the following: Gibraltar, Algeria, Morrocco, Tunisia.
Add 4inf, 1art on Tokyo
Add 2inf, 2art on Rome
$30 of land material for Axis- now Japan can use $16 on other things, Italy can use $14 on other things.
-$5 per round for US which in gameplay will result to at least $15-$20 (rounds 4-8ish) until they can gain this NO again and keep it.
This may seem a little strong but it may be what is needed.
Exchanging the Mexico NO with a 5IPC NO for the US (at war) that says- “Allies need to control Algeria, Tunis, Morocco and Gibraltar”. Call it a “strategic foothold in the Mediterrean and Europe.” You don’t even need West Indies.
Realistically, US would be w/o this NO until (at the earliest) round 6-7 and from that point Axis and Allies can jostle back and forth for it. It also sends more units to Europe side and that means less to Japan. I think it does everything we need it to do to balance and solve the US balancing diliema.
Think about it…Rounds 1-3 won’t matter because US is NOT at war anyway- doesn’t get any NOs…so round 4-6 the US would not be ready to attain this NO (exchanged for the Mexican NO)- so that’s a loss of $15 IPCs of material over time. From round 7+ US would have to jostle for it and commit units to keep the NO- taking away some pressure off of Japan.
If US ignores the NO altogether…fine, then they go for the KJF strat that Jen’s mentioned…OK but over 10 rounds (minus the first 3 rounds not at war) US will have $35 IPC LESS of material to work with- will that be enough???
If not, then I would add the units to the captials that I mentioned recently to Toyko, Rome and Berlin
I just think UK1 being able to crush italy’s efforts in africa so easily needs a change.
When Alpha+2 was designed that was the tradeoff- Brits get Med if Germany goes Sealion. If Germany goes Barbarossa instead then Axis can secure the Med- Germany would be able to send units down there.