So what? Pull out of E. Europe and Balkans with Germany, leave 1 infantry there. Unify your fleet, force the Allies out of SZ 3, 6, 7, 8 and 12, then push the Russians back.
Pull out of EEur to where?
So what? Pull out of E. Europe and Balkans with Germany, leave 1 infantry there. Unify your fleet, force the Allies out of SZ 3, 6, 7, 8 and 12, then push the Russians back.
Pull out of EEur to where?
I voted for both Belo and WRus, but I’m very new to Revised, so I have no idea. Until I have my head handed to me by a good Axis player I will stick with 8inf R1. From what I can tell, much of the advice I’m getting on how to play Germany says “leave this or that undefended” or with 1inf, so on the other side of the coin as Russia I can trade territory with as little as 2inf 1ftr. I’m not risking my art or arm. Therefore, I don’t think taking Belo is necessarily at odds with my buy, because I use minimal forces to take it, and I need all the IPCs I can get, and an extra 2 or 3 IPCs here and there will later buy me an art instead of inf for more offense. Force Germany to take back ground; that slows their progress. My 2 cents…
You need to Merge G2. Merging G4 is way too late.
Squirecam
I understand, but there are consequences to that approach, too. First, I might have even less inf in EEur unless I had used the trn G2 to move 2inf. (That goes back to a mistake of having left 3inf in Balk after G1.) Second, G2 I used SZ15 to add more troops to the middle east. Perhaps another mistake, but there it is.
This is starting to feel a bit like Risk, where a common strategy was to have one or two big stacks and leave next to nothing everywhere else! I’ve got a lot to learn…
@Nix:
that would kill the Allies.
But on the topic of being outnumbered by Russia, NO BIG DEAL, why? Â becuse you defend better then Russia can attack, he will most likley lack offensive punch.
Likewise, if Germany buys ships and Russia moves in to hold Ukr early it becomes very hard or costly (or both) to push them out.
Right, that’s what is about to happen to me if I don’t do something quick! :-o
Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.
What are you buying???
To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf. Â G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm. Â
I presume you have 5 fighters still. You do NOT need armor or artillery. You are trading Belo/Karelia/Ukr. This requires sacrificing INFANTRY, not armor. G2 buy should be as much INF as possible, with art/tank left over. In this case, 11 Inf, 1 armor.
A sea purchase usually causes UK to fear 2 things, invasion and merger. I dont think you tried to merge. So the AC by itself wont stop the UK/USA from gathering to destroy you (as you are finding out). If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
see post above. USSR cant have the O power to defeat your D strength… (or wouldn’t with all INF buys)
Trying to follow a “script”, even a “master’s” usually results in trouble. The best thing you can do is learn to think “outside the box”, experiment, and try to determine overall strategies and counters. Dont be tied down to one “set” way of doing things.
Squirecam
Yes, I have 3ftr WEur 2ftr on AC, 1ftr EEur. Â I bot just 1art, with an extra IPC; that doesn’t hurt, it will help later when I attack.
Yes, on G2 and G3 I moved my naval units to attempt merge, but due to a block it cannot happen until G4 at earliest, if US navy doesn’t sink most of my fleet. :wink:
Russia has 4art 4arm 2ftr at the front lines, along with 20inf. Â They don’t lack offensive punch.
Agreed. Â This is only my third game of Revised, so this whole German AC approach is new and outside the box for me. Â You’re basically reading my thoughts expressed as AAR (after action reports) turn by turn as I discover how this works. :-)
First time I played Revised I was Germany, but game went too long (at a convention). I couldn’t finish it, but I was losing. My partner playing Japan had more fun due to KGF. I am hoping to try out Allies KJF when I get the chance. Details like US bom to SZ60 could be handy.
However, Jennifer, you are totally into calculated risks and trying to kill more stuff than you lose in any given battle. I assume US bom to SZ60 only happens if J1 does NOT wipe out SZ52, but how often does that happen?
SZ5 is 3 steps away
Right. Dumb on my part not to have remembered that. :oops: If UK rolls 2 hits, giving up 1sub 1ftr is not too bad! With R sub there, losing bom is a risky proposition.
Couldnt you bid for a Restricted Russia and then no longer need an axis bid? How would that effect game play?
In the original A&A, restricted Russia was one way to make it a bit tougher on the Allies. In Revised, I’m not sure I would want to play a Restricted Russia! I agree with Nix. WRus is too critical.
Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.
What are you buying???
To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf. Â G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm. Â G3 I bought 12inf 1arm, and I’ve only just finished UK3, so those 12inf are in Germany. Â Due to attrition (e.g. taking back Ukraine G2 with 2inf 1ftr, taking Karel 2inf 1ftr, then losing those infantry to counter-attacks), I have only 10inf in E.Eur, 1inf in Balkans, Russia holds WRus, Ukr, Belo, Karel, UK holds Norway. Â Believe me, I’ve tried, but I couldn’t do better than one big stack in EEur with 10inf 1art 5arm. Â I’ve basically followed the moves ad described by experienced members of the forum who have played G1 1AC 12inf. Â My goal is to see how that initial buy plays out, and not surprisingly it has led to an early Russian lead. :-) Â But I am far from giving up hope!
if you don´t move russian sub to Sz2 you risk being hit with 1 bmb, 1 fig, 1 sub vs 1 trn, 1bb on G1.
Right, but why limit it to 1sub for the Germans? Even with R sub to SZ2, G1 can wipe out SZ2. Just playing devil’s advocate…
G starts with 23 Inf, 3 art, 9 tanks and 6 fighters in Europe.
Yes, but not all 23inf are in range to threaten Russia, and most players seem to advocate placing 3-4ftrs on WEur to discourage Allied incursions.
USSR just doesnt have the troops to “overrun” Germany.
Right, not “overrun” Germany but I’m just saying in the game I’m in now after G3 the Russians still outnumber my G inf almost 2-1 on the front lines. Yes, Germany should catch up, but it takes time, primarily because I spent IPCs on naval units. I just don’t see how I can prevent being placed in a 2-front war against Allies that know what they are doing.
It can land in Bury. E Can-W Can-sz63-sz62-sz60-Bury.
Wow, I totally missed the small connection between WCan and SZ63 at the top of the map. That almost seems unfair to bypass Alaska! 8-) Thanks, U-505. Off topic, your moniker implies you like playing Germany. With NA I saw a guy take U-Boat Interdiction and buy subs, taking away something like 16IPCs per turn from the Allies. Have you tried that?
You can add to that that the Bomber from E. USA can hit SZ 60, a little known fact in the AAR community.
I have a map out and can’t figure how US bom lands after hitting SZ60. Could you tell me the route?
2 Inf, 6 Fig, 1 Bomb is all you need sometimes. (Assuming you don’t lose a fig to Russian aggression.)
So you DID mean G1 I guess. :| Don’t know the “consensus” on R1 moves, but sub to SZ6 makes G1 SeaLion slightly more risky. Seems like many folks advocate sub to SZ2 as protection for UK naval buildup. Like you said in another post, without knowing results of R1 it is difficult to project. I just think with only 2inf a G1 invasion seems too risky.
btw, not sure it’s legal to bring Balkans ftr into G1 SeaLion.
Jennifer:Â Never seriously considered trannies in the Baltic.Â
Me, too. Now this thread is truly on a parallel track with newpaintbrush’s.
newpaintbrush:Â I assume that Germany DID hold Ukraine at the end of G1, but that Russia captured Ukraine on SU2.Â
Correct.
newpaintbrush:Â But instead of attacking Karelia on G2, you COULD have attacked Archangel on G2
No, R (for Russia – punting on my “SU” designation! :-)) held Kar, Belo and W.Rus after R2. Actually what I did G2 was attack Kar with 2inf 1ftr, wol. I slow-played to allow more time to build up E.Eur, which had only 4inf 1art 5arm after G1, IIRC. I felt I needed more inf before going into Kar with big stack.
newpaintbrush:Â The trick is threatening Russia on the north and the south.
I wonder if I’m doing something wrong, because the numbers don’t add up for me to threaten both north and south. After G3 I have ONE big stack in E.Eur: 10inf 1art 5arm, whereas R has big stacks in Cauc and W.Rus (combined 20inf 4art 4arm, IIRC). I am trying to build up E.Eur, but that is the best I could do. Anywhere I move my big stack could leave a void for R to exploit. I need another turn for 12inf in Ger to advance.
newpaintbrush:Â Hope you’re not talking about me
No, newpaintbrush, not you or really anyone in particular. It’s just that I see so many posts from players who say they crush the Allies with this or that strategy but do not include the kinds of details I would need to understand their strategies, and that’s frustrating for me because I have never found a consistent way to do well with Germany, especially if Allies use KGF. However, you, Darth, Nix, Jennifer, ncscswitch to name a few are very helpful with detailed advice! :-)
With that said, my AAR for today: heading into J3 things are so-so for the Axis. Panzers took all Africa except S.Afr, and Trans-Jordan fell, but Norway was lost, and R holds Ukr, Belo, W.Rus, Kar. J has not hit its stride yet; just the simple move UK1 destroy J DD in SZ59 makes a significant impact on J’s early game! R3 took Sink back, so J has not made much headway. IC in Kwang and 3trn in SZ61 should get things rolling soon. UK has abandoned India, and US has all but abandoned Pacific due to KGF, so J should now expand.
Back to Germany: once I had a real navy, I wasn’t sure exactly what to do with it. Don’t know if this was a huge mistake or not, but I decided to go for fleet unification. G2 moved from SZ5 to SZ7; Russia went for block by moving sub to SZ12, preventing G3 unification in SZ13. G3 moved SZ7 to SZ12, sinking sub wol. 1BB 1trn moved SZ15 to SZ13. Can the Allies prevent unification?
Well, US has 1BB 1DD 3trn in SZ10, plus 4ftr from ACs in SZ8, so the Kriegsmarine will probably be sunk US3, albeit at a high price for the Americans. The long-term consequences of that battle remain to be seen…
you position the Figs at the end (non-combat phase) of G1 in western mainly.
Oh, I see, she meant G1 non-combat phase stage forces threatening invasion G2 or thereafter. I misinterpreted her meaning… Right, in my current game I have 3-4 ftr in W.Eur, but unfortunately I played G1 buy 1AC 12inf. If I had bought 2trn instead, then I would have created the threat. Forgive me, I’m still getting used to A&A Revised; I’m not used to having significant German naval units to work with in SZ5! So many possibilities…
A fleet idea I’ve seen work a few times is to hit the British [Japanese?] transport with your carrier and destroyer, amphibiously attack Borneo with 2 inf from India, amphibiously attack New guinea with 2 inf from Australia, send a fighter and submarine to the solomons to kill the enemy sub and land the fighter in SZ 52.
This, in effect, destroyes Japan’s ability to fight for a few rounds. Followed up with ICs in India on UK2 and ICs in Sinkiang US1 and China US2 and pressure from Russia with light forces (just enough to keep Sink from falling long enough for America to have a stack there) and you can effectively neutralize Japan in 4 rounds.
Hmm, I like the aggressiveness of that plan, because if UK tries to run away in the Indian Ocean and South Pacific, she’ll probably lose those units anyway, so why not try to slow down Japan? I never thought of sending the SZ35 ftr over to SZ52, thus adding protection to Pearl. I had to double-check the map, but voila, it can be done.
Very interesting…Â I have always like KJF better anyway (but that’s primarily based on playing the original A&A version), and this is great to see more discussion about it. :-)
Anyway, any good German player is going to stage her fighters and fleet in a way she can invade England on G1, just in case.
On G1? Or do you mean G2? You could only bring 2 ground units on G1…
Germany almost always is toast against my Russia anyway. It’s Japan that finally defeats Russia, but Germany’s almost always been reduced to Berlin, primarily because they cannot hope to pound through the Russians, Brits and Americans in Karelia and trading E. Europe.
Agreed, but if Japanese tanks are in range of Moscow, isn’t one or two turns of building 8inf in Russia (Germany is presumably still threatened by UK and US), coupled with a few fighters, enough to prevent losing your capital? I mean, you’re saying Japan usually proves the bigger threat, but how often do you actually lose Moscow? Not that often, I would bet.
meanwhile J1 attack hawaii and exapand in mainland, J2 attack and conquer East US and continue expansion in mainland. J3 invade russia with tanks and planes(get his 4 xtra units out of the way first) then blitz through russia slowly crippling.
Mork, first I think you meant “West US” not “East US”, unless you have Teleport as a Nat’l Advantage. :-D But let’s say you take Hawaii J1, doesn’t the US player place ground units in West US? Your opponent would have to be pretty lame, but I guess we covered that…
Serious question though, if you have devoted enough units to attacking US mainland, where did the IPCs come from to “continue expansion” in Asia? Presumably your transports moved east toward US, so you would have had to buy either (a) IC, or (b) more transports, but then you have little left for ground units. I don’t think Japan has enough resources to conquer US and blitz Russia simultaneously.
I agree if you did go after US, that would suck resources away from attacks on Germany. I just think if pressed, the US has a big enough economy to defend its mainland yet still provide some support against Germany.
And that is how you bid!
:lol: newpaintbrush, that’s funny, have you actually pulled off G1 London blitz in a tournament?!
I think there are too many work arounds for the Allies for 1 AC for the Baltic to scare them.
Agreed, Darth.
I’d pull back everything to EE, leaving 1 inf in Ukr, I wouldn’t counter Belo, but I’d take Kar.
I’d hit Egy. (I would have also placed my bid, if any, in Lib).
I’d also probably leave only inf and ftrs in WE, armor should be in EE to threaten against an aggressive Russia.
Place at least 2 inf in SE.
Righto, that’s pretty much where I’m at. Except there was no bid, so I’m at a disadvantage. Anyway, tonight I’ll play a few more rounds and see if I can make this work for Germany…