it’s odd b/c i’m a creationist.
Wow. that is fanatism…
And you said once the bible was not a scientific text ?
it’s odd b/c i’m a creationist.
Wow. that is fanatism…
And you said once the bible was not a scientific text ?
I will note that i never make any interpretation, too dangerous.
At the G-8 conference, Bush made a stupid reference about that our politicians should all believe in God, and of course he is alluding to the God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
haha, Bush is not a big model of intelligence and culture :), he should start the Christian Integrist Party.
His axis of evil was pretty dumm too
“There is NO cut, one is about opinion, the other are just governement statistic”
In this case, government statistic is based on previous public opinion and the gathering of information.
That is false but i will certainly not argue about statistic vs survey, that is pointless. If you really want to know ask someone that has been in France in the last decade…
Because CC, it does not suck that some people get better medical treatment ? That some can have an office of lawyers working for them…
That is horrible and deviant.
odd . . . i seem to remember me elucidating the biochemical pathway of how the sun’s energy provides a system of order.
What is odd ? That is what i said…
Until these questions are answered, I don’t think that there can be such at big cut off between 90% to 12%.
There is NO cut, one is about opinion, the other are just governement statistic. How can you not question the fact there is no agnostic, no deist in the “statistic” ? How can you not question the fact church are vacuum in France, but we are 90% catholic…
For now, I’ll have to stick with YB’s information. At least, I can visit the place and verify it. FinsterniS, where is your information coming from?
institue SOFRES
The presence of energy from the Sun does not solve the evolutionist’s problem of how increasing order could occur on the Earth, contrary to the Second Law.
First evolutionism is not perfect, but thermodynamic is not an argument against it.
The second law of thermodynamics says that heat energy will always flow from a hotter object to a colder one rather than the other way around
The second law says that entropy will tend to increase, but sometime entropy will decrease… only in a closed system it will always finish to increase. But life is not a closed system because the sun provide our energy… Creationism often say that the second law mean that everything is going from Order to Disorder and that Order will not pop up from Disorder. This is a deformation; there is exemples of order coming from disorder without any intelligence; snowflakes, lightning…
This is a good exemple of how creationist are creating more confusion than constructive criticism… Because at first the argument (for someone like me without formation in physics) seem valid, but it is just the deformation of a law (like the Occam’s razor)…
@TG:
Yeah, usually when you’re born into a religious faith you remain in it for the rest of your life. So I can’t believe there is such a high drop off from 90% to 12%. 90% does sound at little high since you do have to consider today’s standards. I’ll probably put that number around the 70’s to 80’s. Simply, religions don’t die out that fast (unless quickly replaced by another religion or being prosecuted for their beliefs).
12% Catholic, but some (lots) of Deist… Around 70’s and 80’s… you have clearly not visited France in the last century :) Anyway… i don,t say the survey is perfect (there’s no perfect survey), but when it come to the opinion of the people, i think we should ask the people…
The 38% agnostic is certainly because of the question that turn lot of Atheist/Deist into Agnostic…
wow, i am using survey from a France agencies, and what ? You give me thing that have no link with opinion. Like i said; in your stats there is no Atheist, no Agnostic, no Bouddhist, why ? Because it only consider how you are born, not what people think.
Sure France is (was?) catholic… but it’s dying really fast.
Again, the resident Marxists talk about how in a perfect world perfect Communism would be perfect. Try real world.
Cuba is working pretty well.
Anyway that is true communism is not working very well for now anyway…
however many of us are lazy, would rather go to silly forums
Yea but we are in vacation, good time to read book and discuss with other culture :)
Second, U.S. only religious country
i NEVER said that, atheist are very rare.
Also here my “full of crap” statistic.
FRANCE
source; Institue SOFRES
Nowadays, two millions of frenchmen have a Buddhist adhesion in the census (Express). IFOP '97: Good behavior of the Church in front of the preservatives, 25% yes, 69% is wrong; too much conservative the Pope (among practicings)? 51% yes. Another survey by the IFOP among the young people: adhesion with “make love, not the war” 93%, adhesion with “Neither owner nor god” 39%. In other poll, french people is 11% atheist, 38% agnostic. Tax of divorces in France: 36%, in Ille-de-France 50%. Poll of 1996; important decisions only with the personal conscience 83%; only with the Church postures 7%; both 9%. World Values Survey of 1991, 21% of weekly churchgoers, 13% with the religion as important in his/her life. A survey among the catholic practicings shows that the 69% believe that the christianity is pro immigrates, but 13% that it is compatible christianity and racism; 20% want that the Church defends the immigrates, 44% only helps them, and 13% doesn’t nothing. In poll '98, the french a favour of accept legally the couples of fact 76%; item the homosexual couples 68%. A BVA poll about the spirituality (1999): More close to catholicism 62%, protestantism 19%, Buddhism 11%, judaism 8%, islamism 6%. Regular churchgoers, 12%. According to the answers of the belief about god, 41% about one and personal, 9% deist, 22% agnostic posture, 26% atheist. Poll about the death (edited in “Psychologies” of november '98): After your death, what do you think what will happens to you ? 35% Nothing , 29% Don’t know, 13% a new life, 7% union with god, 5% reincarnation, 3% eternal life, 2% the soul continues living, 6% other answers. (more than 100% because there was one or two answers ).
note that a pseudoatheist (i don’t like the name) is a non-materialist atheist and a neodoukhobor is a reincarnationist (or something like i am not even sure)…
in the past three months, Mr. Meyssan’s book has sold more than 200,000 copies in France, placing it at the top of best-seller lists for several weeks
Only in France.
That was pathetic… I am proud that here people read a lot but not when they read stupid thing like that !
Just want to wish all you fine people (and not so fine people) a great Independence Day
You do not need to add the “and not so fine people” i am not American :lol:
@cystic:
of course it is possible that all systems suck.
Not totally false, but i would prefer a system where everyone has the same power (money)… But people are too individualistic for that… anyway for now, also the technocracy is maybe not ready…
This ideologue movement is often too deluded
About the CCP; they are not really convincing. They do not attack Communism, but Communist; that is not justify, and it betrayed an evident lack of substance… If they want argument against communism they should argue human are too individualistic, egoistic & competitive…
Under the cover of the right of “liberty”, capitalism is a real injustice and a problematic deviance.
@TG:
Well, even if US is the only religious country, I’m happy. It’s yet another ‘perk’ that makes us unique. :wink:
Not the only one… spain, poland, are very religious… and most poor country are also very religious.
@Anonymous:
Well, in a way, the sun is directed. Chloroplasts, reflecting light in the green spectrum, absorb light at other wavelengths. This is the right amount of energy to set off a reaction causing CO2 to ultimately be built into glucose.
The glucose is the next part of the equation - use of it through various metabolic pathways (glycolysis, pyruvate dehydrogenase, the Kreb’s cycle, and oxidative phosphorylation amoung others) provides the ATP (a high energy intermediate) required for DNA replication/transcription, translation (i.e. protein production) etc.
There is a kind of elegance to it.
Not directed; just perfect for the apparition of protein and ultimatly life… Anyway we don,t even know how life exatly start out; maybe from ashe, maybe from our sun, maybe it is just inherent to planets like ours…
For better or worse, no matter what you say, no matter what “evidence” you produce, there is absolutely no way that FinsterniS will consider it possible that there is any intelligence to creation.
That is an easy one, and i can say exactly the same thing…
And any chance you could give this whole “menacing people” a rest?
No because, it is too, historicly valid…
And yes, i clearly lack objectivity. So do you. So does everyone in the world, each according to his/her ideology.
Agreed, and i already tell that.
The reason why X religion is better than Y might be answered by “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Christianity answers the questions we ask late at night.
The fact it answer the good question is an argument for it ?
Sure, i don’t know all of the answers, but my most important questions have been answered - in a personal way.
Keep that personnal, that way everything is ok.
FISTERNIS YOU ARE SO FULL OF CRAP!
90% of the people of France are Catholic (although undoubtedly some are only culturally Catholic) which is a HUGE difference from 12%. Yeah right, like The U.S. is more Catholic than France.
Don’t believe me, try http://www.photius.com/wfb2000/countries/france/france_people.html
17% Budhist! Give me a break. Try less than 1%
I am sure you are quite happy… wooooooo, you were not able to counter my argument about why your dogmatic religion is not rational with your old Kantian & Cartesian logic (Design argument, Uncaused cause), so you jump on the occasion to make me look like dumm ? Well you miss my friend…
You see, what you take was a statistic about How They Were BORN. That is not base on survey. Is someone here, that is or has been in France, can agree with YB ? 90% Catholic; yeaaa, they are BORN catholic like i am BORN christian, huge difference… Statisticly i am a protestant…
Just look at the CIA statistics, they will say; France 90% Catholic, blablabla, no Atheist, no Agnostic… Germany x% catholic… blablabla, no Agnostic, no Atheist (well maybe because of West Germany) but anyway, you get the point… Sure statistic are always a little false somewhere… but my stats is not THAT false. And in the case of religion/opinion about religion; survey is the best option. The survey i have is the only one i have the source and the question, so i trust it…
Also, even if my statistics were false (that is even not the case), this does’nt mean i am “full of crap”.
If you ask i will even give you the source of these statistics
@Field:
The “goal” of evolution is survival.
That is what i think, but it does not seem to be a goal enough noble…
Science often commits the crime of refusing to alter current theories. What they believe now is set in stone.
Again, that is perfectly true….
I don’t believe Creationists voicing their opinion’s and/or beliefs is a reason to “hate” them.
That is even not a scientitic theory, read about their “theory”, they are just trying to proove evolutionism is wrong. Their theory just come out from religious belief, there is nothing to support them; exept people in general. And somewhat that is frustrating, if evolutionist were not trying to convince the masses, nobody would care about them. But no, they want creationism to be in school, there is a museum of creationism and bla bla bla…
Again, i don’t say evolutionist explain everything… they simply don’t. But at least their theory evolve :). Evolution is very comple.
As long as, of course, their using words and not weapons. If you feel that threatened by someone’s “dogma”, I’d say your not too secure on your own beliefs. Freedom of Speech also means you have to listen to the guy you don’t want to…
I did’t say i will go out and start a revolution against them; still what they are doing is still something… not very ethic. I don’t see a lot of difference between those modern creationist, and the ancient geocentrist.
You will not find a lot of creationist in Japan, just because they are not christian.
Even if it had a cause (probable), there is no reason to believe it was an intelligent cause, but a lot of reason to believe there was no intelligence behind it…