Im going to try and incorporate it in my play now and then to give the allies one more thing to think about. OFC it depends on the positioning of the allies but they cant position themselves against everything.
Posts made by Dany
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RE: Has anyone planned to attack the true neutrals?
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RE: Alpha +3 Observations
@Young:
Nice report!
It seems that u are positioned to attack Russia and then its is prolly wise to follow throw. Japan and Italy will help weaken their economy from the east and south and if you avoid to much trading with the Germans the AA guns should not cause you to much problem. Might wanna to get some extra art into the mix and use them for trading.
Also SZ 120 is not a convoy zone so you might want to send those subs somewhere else.
Good luck!
Thanks for pointing that out, I forgot that a sea zone actually needs the covoy symbol in order to be eligible for disruptions. :roll:
Germany is acually well positioned to attempt either sealion or barbarssa, but it is crucial that the decision be made immediately. I’m sure I will follow through with Russia and find a method of attack around those AA Guns. I guess I should be a little grateful for Russia spending on such a unit, especially if I use my entire air force against the British navy and start pounding out tanks against Russia. I still feel that the AA gun rule will eventually become a great Russian advantage.
Italy will have their way as they are making the same $ as London and there is nothing in there way. It’s their war to lose. Japan on the other hand will need to keep a close eye on Alaska as it is the only threatening operation the allies have going for them.
Thanks for the imput. Any other advice?
Its hard to say much when one cant see the board. How many trs does Italy have? How many does Japan have and where are they? Has the UK stacked Persia?
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RE: Alpha +3 Observations
Nice report!
It seems that u are positioned to attack Russia and then its is prolly wise to follow throw. Japan and Italy will help weaken their economy from the east and south and if you avoid to much trading with the Germans the AA guns should not cause you to much problem. Might wanna to get some extra art into the mix and use them for trading.
Also SZ 120 is not a convoy zone so you might want to send those subs somewhere else.
Good luck!
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RE: Has anyone planned to attack the true neutrals?
I might have to think about the IC a bit. The problem is that without the IC i need to plan my builds a round extra ahead and that can also compromise my flexibility. I also like being able to spend german IPC:s in the med when i take so much IPC:s from them (Bulgaria, Greece and S France) and w Turkey gone that can be done. A minor in Greece might also be an option.
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RE: Has anyone planned to attack the true neutrals?
Because you’re proposing to activate neutrals on I1, I’d give some thought to Turkey, and how the UK may be able to activate it on UK2. It would be a dangerous foe.
I really like your outside-the-box thinking.
I’ve attacked neutrals (specifically Spain and Turkey as the centerpiece) twice - once as the Allies, once as the Axis. As the Allies, I did it out of desperation in a losing game just to playtest, and found it to be quite fun and effective, though I lost. As the Axis, I used it as the coup de grace and my opponent gave up, as Turkey was a flanking maneuver to go south and kill Egypt. He saw the writing on the wall and surrendered.
I also had a Turn 3 Axis neutral crush used against me, to amazing effect. The only reason I won the game was dice. My opponent hasn’t used it since because he’s gunshy now. I plan on keeping it in my bag of tricks.
I’ll tell you what - Germany/Italy strongly rooted in Spain is a nightmare for the Allies. The trick for the Axis is keeping the edge on defense.
So Dany - a nice thought, and keep tweaking to bring the other neutrals into consideration.
Thx for the feedback. Turkey is the hard nut to crack, the Germans wont reach it until turn 3 (Bulgaria-Greece-Turkey). The UK:s options depends on what they did in UK1. If the inf in Jordan stayed put or walked south and if the TRS in the easten med went south or followed the rest of the fleet to Gibraltar the UK wont be able to activate Turkey before the Germans can hit them. If they went for an attack on Iraq turn one tho they can activate them in UK2 and maybe get the troops they need to hold it against the Germans in G3. If they do this tho i have a hard time seeing how they could hold on to Egypt and with the Japanese coming for India they wont be able to reinforce.
The French on the other hand can activate Turkey on F1 and get the inf out of there before the Germans get there. That could get very annoying and turn Egypt into a very hard nut to crack (or Iraq) as the Britts could prolly put up a minor once they see that no sea lion is coming.
I think a major in Romania would be a nice part of this strat as it could both be used to get inf to the eastern front and to get mecs and tanks into the middle east.
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RE: Has anyone planned to attack the true neutrals?
The UK fleet in the med in UK2 can either attack the Italian fleet (w not very good odds) or try and run and then get hit by the Italians in I2. In I2 they will collect 2 NA:s and can start moving units over to Africa. This combined with Germans coming into the mid-east via turkey will eventually make Italy a beast. Russia will prolly be quite strong at first but the combination a high german production of Italians from the south (with capability to attack from the Black sea) and Japans attacks via India should be able to break them.
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Has anyone planned to attack the true neutrals?
A few times on these forums ive seen ppl say they where forced to take out the true neutrals as the axis but has any1 planned to do it as a part of their overall game plan?
Ive been thinking about it for a while and the changes to mongolia triggered me to make some sort of strat.
The overall plan is to hit UK hard in Europe in turn 1-3. Declare war with Japan J4 and go straight for India and evacuating China and Korea.
G1:
Build AC, and some sort of combo of trs and subs.Hit Paris with all slow units close to it and 6 planes
Hit 110 with 2 subs and a 5 planes
Hit Canada fleet with 2 subs
Hit 112 with BB, CA and sub
Hit Normany with 3 mecs and 3 tanks
Hit Southern France with 1 mec and 2 tanks
Hit Yogo with tanks and units from S germany and Hungary
Activate Bulgaria both inf from Rum
Activate FinlandSome extra losses will probably occur but it puts one in a quite interesting possession.
What would the UK do? Most of the times in our games they gather their fleet outside Gibraltar, use one boat to hinder a German landing there and put 3 figs on the airbase to protect the fleet.
In I1 the Italians can then sail their fleet and attack the french fleet in the med while landing in Spain. (3 inf, 1 art, 1 tank (from n italy via s france), 2 figs and 1 bmb against 6 inf). In G2 the surviving tanks and mecs from normandy and s. france can then blitz to Gib with help of Luftvaffe, kill a good part of the RAF and looking the UK fleet in the med without a naval base. They can also use thier trs to take out Sweden and move down towards turkey via gre. Depending on the naval moves in uk1 the germans can even build an airbase in southern france on g2 and the italians can allready have landed there to protect their fleet.
There are lot of deviations that can be made after this depending on the overwhelming goal but i do find this opening kind of interesting.
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RE: Does an A+3 Sealion = Axis victory?
but one more sub or plane in 111 would be very nice, taking a plane from one of the other attacks does not feel that great tho and i cant really skip any of the attacks, letting the fleet in 110 live might be an option as it frees upp alot of planes and subs to make other attacks such as the ca out of gib or the canadian fleet and prop up other attacks to minimize losses. the problem is that the uk can then combine this fleet with the med fleet and there the german fleet is then at risk. normandy can also be skipped but its nice to kill the extra fighter. depends on how risky one wants to be.
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RE: Does an A+3 Sealion = Axis victory?
as you point out 111 is a weaker attack, the bb does not have a naval base tho so i think thats the way to go. UK will have at most 3 hits in the first round of combat so i even if it all goes to hell my bomber can retreat.
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RE: Does an A+3 Sealion = Axis victory?
I think my G1 will hit france, normandy, 110, 111, 112 and a lone sub against the dd and trs on the Canadian coast.
That seems extremely risky. The naval battles take pretty much all the airpower you can get. How can you take both France and Normandy?
Don’t forget France has a AA that can serve as a casualty…
I think it would look something like this:
Normandy: 2 mec, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fig (holland), 1 tac (wg), over 90 % attack
Paris: 7 inf, 2 art, 2 mec, 4 tnk, 1 tac (poland), over 80 % attack
112: bb, ca, 1 fig (hungary), almost 100 % to win
111: 2 subs, 1 fig (norway), 1 bmb (germany), 90 % to win
110: 2 subs, 2 fig (w ger), 3 tac (2 from w ger and 1 from germany), 100 % to winFrance will not be a walkover but normandy and 112 should be np. 110 and 111 are 90-100 % if there is no scramble, if there is a scramble both attacks become rsiky but still wi bigge changes for the germans to win and bigger average loss for the UK, im happy to exchange german planes for RAF planes in the early game. If France does not fall the Italians can most likely clear it up and then its an entire different game but it does not mean the game is lost.
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RE: Does an A+3 Sealion = Axis victory?
It will be interesting to see the meta game implications of these changes. I could see alot of UK players getting overconfident and end up loosing London. Not building inf in the UK and sending figs (to have a change to kill one of the two lager italian fleet stacks) to the med in UK1 can spell disaster for the UK now.
Against a prepared UK i think that the G4 Sealion with a G3 invasion of Scotland is now a much better option. Does not bring any of the other allies into the war prematurely and still have a very good win rate. I never liked the G3 Sealion anyways, to risky for my taste. I like spend to turns realy sticking it to the UK before i try to finish them. Not sure ill go after thier money, atleast not is G3 as i might prefer to collect it for myself.
The Italian bmb also creates more options as it can act as a can opener for the German navy allowing the Germans to take gibraltar on turn 2 and looking the UK into the med if they tried to consolidate their navy instead of suiciding it on the Italians.
I think my G1 will hit france, normandy, 110, 111, 112 and a lone sub against the dd and trs on the Canadian coast. Landing 2 planes in southern italy. Builds im not sure about, 1 AC i think is given as it gives the fleet the potential of operating on the high seas but more then that im not sure. Maybe a bmb or some sort of combination of trs and subs.
Sealion has not gotten easier but the G4 attack is not much worse then it was in A2 and i think the G4 is more interesting and better for the game then the G3.
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RE: Alpha 3 due next week
There also seem to be one less tac bomber in w germany even tho it is not marked as a change. If its not removed the 2 BB:s could both be good attacks even with scrambles. I cant see the point in removing this tbh, maybe just a missprint or might be to compensate for upgraded italian bomber.
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RE: Alpha 3 due next week
The fig in slovakia can be used against yogo and then also land in s. italy. The Paris attack will not be a good one but the Italians can clear it up in thier turn.
With 3 figs in S. Italy and the fig in normandy dead i cant see any attacks from the britts on any of the two major italian fleets.
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RE: Alpha 3 due next week
well, there will be a trade of for the germans, they wont be able to send all thier air out to attack the uk fleet, 2 planes will have to fly south, if they fly from holland or w. germany they can hit normandy on their way, that leaves 8 planes to attack the 2 bb:s in the north sea.
i would:
use 1 fig from holland to hit normandy togheter with enough land troops to take out the fig with out loosing mine (the fig lands in s. italy)
rest of the land troops in range to hit paris
the tbmb from poland with my bb and ca to hit the 2 ca:s outside denmark
2 ss, 1 fig and 1 bmb to hit 111
2 ss, 3 fig and 2 tac to hit 110
one of the attacks on the bb:s will be 50/50 if they scramble, i would choose 111 as the bb there does not have a naval base.
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RE: Alpha 3 due next week
The UK could ofc build an airbase in egypt and fly down figs from the brittish isles to protect their combined med/pacific fleet but then sealion will become alot easier.
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RE: Alpha 3 due next week
I really do like the new italian set-up, they are in a much stronger position then they where in A2. They destroyer and the tt will ofc be sunk but there is no way for the UK to mass up outside Gib and with german planes in s italy both the main fleets will be safe from attack on UK1.
It almost seems as the UK east med fleet might have to escape to the Indian Ocean to avoid getting sunk sooner or later. In UK1 i guess they can block but the blockers will get sunk I1 and then the AC will have to flee. They can also try and mass at Malta with some air cover but the Italians will be able to take them out there aswell. I guess the other option would be to bring the fleet from India and South Africa into the med to reinforce in UK2 but even then the Italians will have a nice shoot at them if they build a ship or a plane I1.
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RE: Alpha 3 due next week
G4 invasion of london seems to be the way to go now imo. G3 is now alot harder. W8ing untill G4 will now also keep the russians (and not just the americans) out of the war. The upside is that the UK fleet in the med will not likely get back up to defend sea lion. With Japan i guess i J4 attack towards India will be my strat of choise in the first game. The Island NO is now kind of hard to get and the Indian AA will be less effective. The fleet of Italy will take a beating and maybe going for a neutral crush will be an option to get into the middle east.
I am not sure that the new set up and the new rules will reduce the axis win-ratio but i do feel that there are less routes for the axis to go and that is a bit boring. There might be strats that have not evolved yet but at first glance i am not overly exited.
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RE: True Neutrals
With some simple house rules attacking the true neutrals does not need to be insane.
In our group we are remove 1 inf in each of the mongolian territories and in angola and mozambique. This makes attacking an European true neutral less devastating for the asian land war and makes it less severe for the Italians. Its also more true to history which is a bonus.
We are also thinking of making Argentina as a pro-axis minor. This would be partly to make south america a possible theatre of operations and also to reduce the extreme impact on the american economy and manpower from attacking a true neutral. Not very true to history but we just regard that as a potential bonus.
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RE: What is making Alpha 2+ unbalanced?
I dont think there are any big balance issues in the game. The better players usually win and if the teams are even we almost play for 15 hours and are not able to call it (unless grave mistakes are made). The problem i have with the game atm is more that it is not as dynamic as it could be.
I think there are a few changes that could make the game more dynamic.
The first would be some sort of Vishy rule. Say there is a minor axis ally formed in southern france and some of the colonies when france falls while the rest are free french and work with the Britts. There might be a need to redeploy/add/remove some units to compensate for this, mainly in the med.
I also think there should be an european NO for the americans (tourch is a good one), the alaskan or mexican one could be removed if needed to compensate for this.
Furthermore i do not like how grave it is to loose ones capital. I think there should be some sort of exiled capital rule. Say if a capital is taken the attacker gets all the defenders ipc on hand and that the defenders income collection rate of the power with an occupied capital is halved. I think this could be a potential way of fixing all the silly all-ins that are used in the game.
I also have some problems with ANSAC being a power in itself. I understand the function in the game as the set-up is now but i would rather have it as a third part of the CW with is own economy (Canada could possibly also be a separate economy and there could be some sort of transfer system, its might make things more complex but it could also be alot of fun).
Last but not least i would like some sort of micro IC:s say for the cost of 5-6 IPC that could be built anywhere (or in areas with an IPC-value of at least one) and that could build one unit (maybe not capital ships or strategic bombers). This could make remote parts of the maps more interesting. Russia could build one in the far east, Italy in East Africa and the Japanese or the Americans could build them on islands in the Pacific. Combined with the free french and the exiled capital a rule like this could generate alot of interesting options.
All of these thoughts are untested. They are just things i i think would be interesting to try out.
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RE: Alpha+2 Allies struggle to win, crazy alternative discovered: Surrender London!
In our group we play w a exiled capital rule. When a capital is lost the conquering power gets the ipc but the captured power can still collect income at half the rate. We are almost always 5 players and as sealion seldom fails we added this rule to make the game fun for all five players. W this rule abandoning london is a viable option, either in GB1 or GB2 (depending on initial builds and moves by Germany and Japan). We also enjoy long games and by applying this rule we avoid either side automatically loosing to a lucky attack on moscow, japan or germany. It also makes it possible to build up some sort of free french force. So far we have not had any problem with balance by adding this rule.