I am not a big fan of forcing the USA player to spend a certain amount in each theater. I think this would create a whole host of problems.
If the Allies are made weaker in Europe or the Axis stronger I think it could do a lot for the game.
I am not a big fan of forcing the USA player to spend a certain amount in each theater. I think this would create a whole host of problems.
If the Allies are made weaker in Europe or the Axis stronger I think it could do a lot for the game.
Frank,
Couldn’t agree more! I’m a big believer in a KGF strategy w/the Allies while crushing Italy first and reinforcing Hawaii. I’ve found the same thing w/my play test group. Check out our standard US Turn 1 moves, which is pretty much our standard US Turn 1 moves now…
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=23530.15
I agree that with going kill KGF as an excellent strategy while stomping Italy and reinforcing Hawaii. The standard US Turn buys you made are similar to the ones my gaming group makes. Honestly no one in our group really wins a game anymore when the Allies head for the Alantic first. By reinforcing Hawaii the Allies make it so Japan can still take it but that they must chosse between that and expanding their economy.
@Commando Brado,
A lot of people are saying a weaker Russia would balance the game. Do you think this would do the trick. I think it would at least go a long way.
Agreed that the German planes may not be enough, but it sure as hell is risky. I believe the odds are 50%?
PS - I still think Russia is the problem …
Well you are probably right… If Russia was weaker than stomping Italy might not be enough. If Russia is made weaker than Germany might be able to get the victory cities in Russia quicker or could afford to send serious aid to save the Italian economy. I think making Russia weaker would make the Allies have to think of more intelligent tactics and it just might balance the game.
Even if the Axis put fighters in the Med to scramble it is not enough to save the side of the Italian fleet with 2 transports. The UK can bring a carrier, cruiser, tac bomber, destroyer, 3 fighters to crush the Italian fleet.
The real reason I put fighters in the Med as the Axis is to save the other side of the Italian fleet. If you don’t at least put the fighters in the Med it might be possible to sink both sides of the fleet UK1.
I put the fighters down there but I am not sure anymore that scrambling them is the best option.
Italy Stomp
My gaming group has found in our games that the USA being used to neutralize Italy first is very effective and almost guarentees a win. This strategy does not require 100% early spending by the USA. The USA can still buy a fighter or so a turn to fly to Hawaii and use the transports its starts with to shuttle infantry to Hawaii. This insures that if Japan trys to counter the Italy Stomp by taking Hawaii that Japan will have to spend too many resources on taking it to expand their economy at the same time.
As part of the Italy Stomp the UK will almost always buy 9 infantry on the UK’s first turn. They will also not scrammble their fighters to protect their fleet on Germany’s first turn unless the German makes a mistake by undercommitting forces. Then the UK usually sinks the half of the Italian fleet that starts with 2 transports, a Battleship, and a Cruiser. Sometimes the Axis player scrambles 3 fighters from Rome to defend their fleet but it is not enough to save it and usually just results in 3 dead Axis planes. This setback is huge for Italy and gives the UK a big footup in Africa.
During all this time Russia probably buys mostly infantry and artillery to insure that it is going to take a very long time for Germany to crack their victory cities as well as be used to defend their economy. The 18 Russian infantry that start in the Pacific are really useful to attack Japan and divert attention if Japan does not leave a strong force on the border and pulls their men south to try and take India. The 18 Russian infantry are also useful if they come back to Moscow as well to help against Germany.
Meanwhile the USA is buying transports, fleet, fighters, and men before it can enter the war and pulling most of the Pacific fleet into the Alantic. It may leave a few blockers in the Pacific to slow Japan around Hawaii. Again the USA invests just enough with fighters and the starting transports to insure that taking Hawaii means that Japan will not also be able to secure the money islands early as well get extra needed land forces to Asia to deal with China.
If Japan wants to then expand its economy on it’s second turn it insures the USA will zoom to Gibraltar on it’s second turn and pressure the Axis. Once this happens it causes major problems for the African War Theater as well causing Germany to divert resources from Operation Barbarossa. By heading to Gilraltar first the USA can almost always manage to also clear German Subs from the Alantic (+5 points UK) as well as insure that the Russia will get i’ts five point bonus to use against Germany. The USA will also very quickly insure the Italy will lose a host of it’s bonuses as well I have found. When the US is at Gilbraltar with a major fleet Italy really has to try and keep major forces in Northern and Southern Italy. If it only defends its’s captial then the USA can sack Italy’s major factory and reduce it to a minor for when the Axis recapture it. Meanwhile the UK can use the valuable time the USA has bought them to secure Africa and the victory city of Cairo. Once this objective is achieved the UK can use it’s points to build it’s own fleet so that it can take over the heavy lifting from the USA in the Alantic. This will most likely result in the German’s losing Norway and thus much of their gains from Russia are neuralized.
At this point Japan probably needs to be payed attention to if played effectively by the Axis. From here the USA can focus it’s points on making sure Japan has no chance to win the game. It’s involvement in the Alantic should have left UK victorious in Africa and well as Italy’s econmy reducted to next to nothing. Operation Barbarossa was stalled because Germany has to invest points to defend Western Germany from being sacked. The UK should now have a fleet up and it probably getting 1 five point bonus, if not 2. Norway may or may not be in Allied hands at this point. From here on the Axis are looking at heavy US spending in the Pacific and a Germany that has to basically win the game in Europe by itself. My gaming group is finding it very hard to get an Axis win against the Italy Stomp.
We are finding that a Germany that always Sea Lion’s may be the only possible counter to the Italy stomp but even that has heavy consequences against a US that will be in the Alantic early and a Russia that will get pumped.
Some Ideas to consider
Considering Germany has to do so much for the Axis give them a bigger starting army to deal with the Allied IPC advantage. Perhaps some Infantry and tanks located away from the Russia front to start. These units could help soften German loses turn 1 or be put into position to help the German war effort G2.
Bringing back the Sicily Airbase. By doing this is it could save Italy’s Navy and allow it to be a more relevant factor.
Boost the defense factor of German Infantry on the Alantic Coast by 1 when being attacked. This could represent the fortified postions the Germans had in Normandy during the War. This would also allow the German’s to spend less points on defending it’s coast.
This is very good news. I am glad to hear it but I hope there are at least a few setup changes. Thanks for sharing this!
I don’t get how everyone is killing Russia with fast units and planes. Aren’t you ending up way outnumbered when the Soviets focus on cost effective infantry and artillery? And if the planes are being used extensively on the eastern front doesn’t that mean UK can start doing landings on German soil as the Air Force is not there to keep them honest? That doesn’t even begin to address the nightmares the US can cause for the Axis just by heading to Gibraltar.
The past ten games I have played have resulted in Allied wins and it does not matter who is playing which side. Our group has seen the Allies win by reducing Italy to irrelevant quickly and we have also seen the Allies win by messing up Japan’s day first as well.
I find Germany kind of has to pick it’s poison when it goes into Russia. If it buys all slow units to maximize the amount of units it can buy it just can not get a big enough stack into Russia fast enough. Then on the other hand if Germany buys fast units to rush Moscow the Germans can endup outnumbered big time if Russia is buying mostly infantry and artillery.
Then there is the fact the Germany has to worry about UK London also, who I think the Germans can keep at bay but it does not end there. There is also mega America that can very quickly threathen Germany and Italy with planes, bombers, and transports.
I have tried rushing Moscow as fast as possible and was even able to sack it but I had to do it at the expense of not growing the German economy like I needed and watching Italy get kicked out of Africa with authority. I still had to concede the game.
I think Russia needs to get weaker or Italy needs to be allowed to play and be somewhat of a force. The third option would be to add units to Germany.
Would adding say 5 tanks and 3 infantry to Germany do the trick perhaps? That might cause the Russians to feel some pressure early and create need for Allied intervention to save the Soviets bacon.
If Italy is going to remain a broken design then I think Germany has to become pretty powerful to give the Axis a close to 50/50 chance at victory.
@Cmdr:
@Cmdr:
If you weaken India, then Russia - by necessity - becomes weaker!
If you want to weaken Russia, then weaken Russia. Don’t weaken India in the hope that it will indirectly weaken Russia.
No, it was an answer to someone saying we need to weaken Russia. We don’t need to weaken Russia, we need to weaken India and make it more like Australia.
Better idea: Industrial Complex in India is a Minor Complex downgraded from Major. If they want to make it a major complex, they can do that at their own expense!
I disagree with making India weaker though I do think the game favors the Allies. India can not be made to be as weak as Australia. Australia might as well be located on the Moon for all intensive purposes as far as Japan is concerned. India on the other hand can be reached fairly quickly by Japan and I feel the tension between the 2 is just right as is. If Japan is left alone it will kill India as is. I do not like a fix that puts Japan one victory city away from victory turn 3 essentially. Then the Allies would really have not choice but to go into the Pacific first.
I believe Russia can probably stand on it’s own a little too easy in Alpha +2 by purchasing lots of Infantry and Artillery. So maybe if Russia was made weaker or perhaps Germany or Italy was made stronger that might be a solution to balance the game.
Well, a poorly or even a mediocrely played Russia will mean an Axis win.
Russia has been maximizing buys with inf and art to get the numbers up followed by in later turns with tanks/mec. I prefer art to mec, though, as it is not often I’ll be doing blitzing with the Russians, and with the right mix of art and inf, my pips won’t drop dramatically switching from defense to attack.
Okay that is similar to what I am experiencing. If Russia buys pretty much just inf and art it is a very tough nut to crack. The only time I cracked an all inf/art Russia was when I built the Romanian major G1 and went straight at Moscow as fast as possible. I did get Moscow but I lost the War. By not building the Baltic fleet or helping out Italy in any fashion the UK ruined my day by locking down Egypt and London. It is just too much for Italy to handle if UK is building in Africa on UK1 and sinking the Italian Navy with no fear.
I never research under these rules, its far to variable and I don’t want to spend 2 hours setting up a game and planning my moves just to have someone roll a die and get some powerfull tech that unbalances the game.
That is basically why my gaming group does not play with tech.
how did you play as axis when not performing sea-lion? did you get to moscow or have you been stopped before?
rock`n roll
Even with no Sealion, Moscow is not taken. I can get Leningrad and often Stalingrad before I am pushed back. I find that when I can do Sealion (and it can be stopped now) I come closer to getting my cities than when I don’t do Sealion. Russia builds up enough that they outnumber Germany when trying to make teh approach to Moscow. And those 18 inf from Siberia are one hell of a shot in the arm for Russia - even when chased down by Japan.
I am currently trying to see if there is some better way of putting the squeeze on Russia from all 3 Axis, but I’m not optimistic.
I mostly agree with what you have said. I am curious though what is Russia building in the games you have played. I have found it depends on what Russia builds and does that determine whether Germany can get it or not.
My friend and I don’t normally play with tech because we think it can interduce too much luck into the game. I know luck is an aspect of the game but I think tech can make it too much of an aspect of the game.
I know some people disagree and that is up to them how they want to play.
You are correct that Spain in Allied hands is bad news… There are consequences to every out of the box strategy. If the Allies make a push for Spain Germany may have to go down there with some Armor and Planes and take it back. If the Allies really drop a bunch of guys there that Germany can’t take it back then it just might mean that Japan will have enough time to score the victory in the Pacific.
I am starting to think there is not a convential road to victory for the Axis in Global Alpha +2 like in say Spring 1942. That game was all about killing Russia. While killing Russia is certianly nice and mostly still neccesary in Alpha +2 it in and of itself will not win you the game. If France is liberated in the meantime or Italy is defeated in Egypt then getting that last victory can be out of reach if Axis timing in finishing Russia is off even a little bit.
While I am not saying that attacking Neutrals is neccesarly the best way to go, I am believing more and more that the Axis need to really think outside the box to win.
I think the Black Sea Fleet Strategy will in the end have to rely on hoping that it causes the Russian player to make a costly mistake or the Axis getting great dice luck. If the Russian Player plays his cards right and does not get diced he can make the German player have to invest way more points in this strategy than it will pay off.
I will say the strategy is creative and under Alpha +2 this is the type of out of the box thinking the Axis really need to do to try and score a victory.
As far as the Japan War effort is concerned Australia might as well be located on the Moon. That is how hard it is to get the neccesary forces down there to sack the captial against a smart Allied player. To make matters worse Australia is easily reinforced by American Fighters and can be subject to liberation by America as well. India on the other hand is not so easily reinforced by the Allies and once it is taken over by Japan the USA is not going to be able to get down there to liberate it.
I think it makes more sense to try and take Hawaii and India. It is up for debate which one Japan should take first. I think it depends on a variety of factors in choosing the first target but most scenarios will lean towards taking India first. China can be marginalized on the way to India thus insuring the safety of the victory cities in mainland Asia. China if not dealt with correctly can easily cost the Axis the game period.
Taking Hawaii will be a tall order at that point but Japan will at least force the USA to heavily reinforce Hawaii which may open a window for the Axis to win in Europe.
I think Alpha +2 is a lot better than OBB but after some extensive testing I am finding that it still favors the Allies. It took awhile to adjust and I did not think that the first couple of times I played but I am coming around to the idea that the Axis need some more boosts.
I have seen that the Allies wrecking Italy quickly is hard to stop. Also as you stated I am finding the Allies can even do some early Pacific spending and still come back to save the day in Europe. The Axis may even be able to sack Moscow but then the last victory city will be all but out of reach.
The only way I see for Axis victory against strong Allied play is desperate gambles that rely on the element of surprise in the hope it will cause the Allies to make a costly mistake. In that event a window for Axis victory can be opened. The problem is if you play this game a lot there are only so many ways to surprise a skilled Allied Commander. As is the game is not balanced.
I have thought about the fact that yes it does take 5 planes to kill the Battleship and Cruiser with the risk of 3 fighters scrambling to defend from UK. And yes I really want to use those 5 planes in more useful ways. The problem is that Battleship and Cruiser have a naval base so if you don’t kill them G1 they can run away to safety and hurt you in a multitude of ways. If they go to Sea Zone 92 UK1 and your sub pot shot on the Cruiser in SZ 91 fails G1 the UK will have 1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers and 1 Destroyer sitting in the Med. That is to go with the Cruiser, Carrier, Destroyer, Tac Bomber, and Fighters that can then either be combined with that fleet or used to destroy half of the Italian Fleet UK1. So then when Italy takes its first turn it could have half of it’s Navy dead with 2 British fleets sitting in the Med and 1 French Fleet. Italy can probably then safely take out the French Cruiser and Destroyer. Then on G2 the Germans can finish off the Brittish Med fleet that sunk half of the Italian Navy but that still leaves the other Uk fleet that got into the Med after not getting taken out G1 to finish off the other half of the Italian Fleet UK2. So now the Axis are playing with a very ineffective Italy.
That is why I believe protecting the economy of Italy is even more important than using the 5 German planes G1 to smash all of France G1. Yes it can save you a lot of German units to smash France up with the Air Force G1 but value of protecting Italy’s economy is priceless.
I normally take out the UK Battleship located by the Naval base and Normandy G1. There was one game where I got unlucky in Normandy and didn’t take it but it is a normal target for me.