Japan does help the European Axis in the form of bringing the pain to Moscow. I’ve never argued that the game as a whole is fundamentally imbalanced, just that it’s most efficient for all sides to play the same old tired strats.
Posts made by chompers
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RE: Italy a bad design
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RE: Italy a bad design
Well, if they’re ignoring Japan, might as well move the San Fran Fleet to the Atlantic to do a KGF vs JTDTM
This is precisely what the US player has done each game to date. 1 and a half to 2 US turns worth of IPC’s on extra carrier’s/planes to back it up, followed by spending on transports and inf/art/tanks for the rest of the game.
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RE: Italy a bad design
I’m assuming the 18 Russian inf are just twiddling their thumbs during all this too? Or did the Japs also manage to kill them, the chinese, india, and anzac all with the negligible aircraft losses they’d need to have to make the Japan/US battle anything close to on equal terms?
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RE: German Push into USSR
Of course, however Germany’s eco is never gonna get anywhere near the US’s. It’ll peak at the end of G1 and it’s all downhill from there. Not to mention the US has the Brits and the Russians to help them in Europe. Who does Japan get to fight alongside if they’re going after the US?
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RE: German Push into USSR
Not by turn 5 they don’t, and it’s more cost-effective to be placing your US troops on IC’s on the American mainland than it is for the Japs to be shucking units (paying additional IPC’s for transports the US obviously doesn’t have to buy to defend its own shores) to the US. Besides, the US can put down 20-25 units a turn on the mainland. How many Jap reinforcements are arriving each turn?
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RE: Italy a bad design
So you’re saying the J3 india attack goes ahead without any aircover? Because its 2 turns back to Japan from there, meaning you don’t get them to Alaska till turn 6. Meanwhile, the US is getting an extra fleet of transports and troops into Europe now.
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RE: German Push into USSR
They’ve stopped just long enough to drive the Japs out, potentially at great cost to the Jap economy, before turning around and continuing to pummel Europe. Or they can just sit there to guard the WUSA while the US gets back to building new armies in EUSA. You’ve taken the US out of the equation for 2-3 turns max, at the cost of sacrificing your attack on Russia.
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RE: Italy a bad design
I’m well aware of this, but how are they doing all that when their air force has to fly away from the front lines no later than turn 3-4 to make a turn 5 attack possible?
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RE: German Push into USSR
How are a few trannies shucking units back and forth gonna be enough to hold out against the 15 inf 5-10 art the US can purchase each turn? You need the Jap airforce to pose any sort of legitimate threat to the US, and putting them in Alaska is not getting your money’s worth outta them.
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RE: Italy a bad design
Woah woah woah, I think our two conversations are starting to blend together here. The Allies are pulling these combined landings no later than turn 5. How is Japan grabbing all the eco it needs to do anything but scratch the paintjob on the US war machine while its making purchases and positioning part of its starting forces to embark on a US harass?
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RE: German Push into USSR
The problem with that is Japan needs to spend IPC’s on stuff like transports and airforce and fleet screens to approach the US, whereas the US just needs to purchase some land units. The US is spending its IPC’s more efficiently than Japan and sooner or later will push them out of Alaska regardless of what you bring in there. They then march over to the Atlantic and board transports for Europe, while Japan is stuck rebuilding from scratch. Japan and the US are very close to equal in power, I’ll definitely give you that, but Japan is far more vulnerable to harassment than the US meaning that ultimately the US will prevail if the two duke it out, and in shorter order than it’ll take for the Germans to make an effective push for Moscow. Meanwhile, through the magic of naval bases the US is back in action in Europe 2 turns later.
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RE: Italy a bad design
Both America and GB can land in Germany simultaneously as their turns occur after the Germans, coincidentally with a pretty large army as that’s all GB bought your first 4 turns. They create the beachhead while the US continuously supplies it with 5-6 transports worth of guys every turn along with 2-3 Brit transports of stuff. Either way, you don’t really need a Brit fleet at all in certain situations. Admittedly it limits your options for landings as you only have 1 fleet for cover, but it’s stuff like this the Allies can get away with while the European Axis are forced to fight tooth and nail for every bit of IPC’s after their first round conquests, and cannot afford to spend frivolously.
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RE: German Push into USSR
Russia can build 10 inf a turn no problem for many turns into the game, longer into it certainly than Germany can think about doing anything but fighting for its life. The Axis need to strip 7-12 pts off Russia to bring it down to 9 per turn, and this is assuming the Russians don’t do a little exploring in the Middle East early on to buff up their Eco even more. And there’s no Jap invasion of America possible that the US can’t defuse with a turn or two worth of spending. Meanwhile, the force necessary to do so critically weakens the Jap eco and offensive into Russia far more than the US suffers from it.
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RE: Italy a bad design
Historically, the Axis lost the war too. It seems they may have taken a page or two too many from the history books rather than worrying about an even fight in Europe/Africa.
Okay, the axis already got the sinking of 80% of the RN. Now they want to take over 90% of Africa?
We go around in circles a lot here. Taking Egypt does not automatically equate to taking all/or most of Africa. There’s an IC in South Africa that can churn out some units to counterattack the shattered remnants of whatever Italians actually survive the conquest of Egypt. The Allies as a whole have a vast IPC advantage over the Axis and it seems that the game was balanced so that it’s up to Japan to do 80% of the heavy lifting in order to bridge that gap, with Italy contributing essentially nothing. Heck, the Brits don’t even need a fleet. They can just do army buys their first 4 turns, wait for the US to roll into SZ 110 in force, and then just plop down transports and 1-2 punch Normandy using the Americans for cover.
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RE: German Push into USSR
What are the other 2 Major allied powers doing while all 3 Axis countries are teeing off on Russia? The only way I’ve found to bring down the bear so far was a turtle Germany churning out stacks of inf and the odd tank or 3 while Italy goes all defensive as well while using the transports (assuming they don’t die GB1) to begin evacuating forces from Africa back into Europe (which I find to be pretty entertaining as its the only effective use I’ve found for the Italian forces in Tobruk so far). Make a quick G4 push to take Leningrad and leave an adequate holding force there while retreating the rest of the army back to Europe to destroy allied landings each turn. Soviet forces are forced to call off any pursuit as a J1 attacking Japan comes cruising in, building IC’s where it can to produce about 90 pts a turn of tanks and mech inf to marshal in Stalingrad with the remnants of its air-force for the final push. Then it just turns into a race to see if the Japs can finish off Moscow before the US/Brits conquer Berlin.
Isn’t this exactly what Global was supposed to avoid(the JTDTM and KGF?)
Witness the source of my frustration with this game so far.
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RE: Italy a bad design
Historically, the Axis lost the war too. It seems they may have taken a page or two too many from the history books rather than worrying about an even fight in Europe/Africa.
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RE: German Push into USSR
What are the other 2 Major allied powers doing while all 3 Axis countries are teeing off on Russia? The only way I’ve found to bring down the bear so far was a turtle Germany churning out stacks of inf and the odd tank or 3 while Italy goes all defensive as well while using the transports (assuming they don’t die GB1) to begin evacuating forces from Africa back into Europe (which I find to be pretty entertaining as its the only effective use I’ve found for the Italian forces in Tobruk so far). Make a quick G4 push to take Leningrad and leave an adequate holding force there while retreating the rest of the army back to Europe to destroy allied landings each turn. Soviet forces are forced to call off any pursuit as a J1 attacking Japan comes cruising in, building IC’s where it can to produce about 90 pts a turn of tanks and mech inf to marshal in Stalingrad with the remnants of its air-force for the final push. Then it just turns into a race to see if the Japs can finish off Moscow before the US/Brits conquer Berlin.
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RE: Italy a bad design
Calvin, you and I are banging our heads against a brick wall. These guys are entrenched in their positions. Their only medicine is to learn in a real game against worthy opponents. Any takers Blitz and the rest of you?
I don’t think insulting the playing ability of the people you’re arguing with is the best way to present your points. Furthermore, every idea I’ve seen on here so far involves committing German resources to the Med that are already stretched to their limit preparing for or embarking upon their two front war. Every German unit and IPC is absolutely critical to implementing an effective attack on either the UK (which in my opinion is madness as the US will snatch back GB the turn following the unlikely event that Sea Lion is even pulled off successfully, thus negating any sort of economic advantage to be gained while wasting your first 3 German turns of purchases) or Russia (the distance between German IC’s and Moscow meaning you need absolutely every available bit of power you can squeeze out of Germany to be able to bring an attack to a successful conclusion, if it’s even possible without Jap support). Replacing planes lost in the Med counterattack or building German IC’s to churn out ships on the Med are HUGE INVESTMENTS during turns where it’s crucial to be spending every available point on setting up to achieve your overall war goal. And the shadow of US all-in on the Atlantic looms over all these suggestions for Axis counter-moves.
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RE: G1 soften up France so Italy can take it
Not to mention kick-start the death of the Axis as Germany is even closer to parity with Russia/GB points-wise, meaning an offensive against either is doomed to failure. Add the US “Super Fleet of Doom” to the mix and it’s curtains for Europe. I don’t think this is a good fix, but I’ll give it a shot. Hell, I’ll try anything at this point.
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RE: Italy a bad design
And unless there are players out there without a job who live in there parents basement and have a bunch of friends who are of the same status, no one could have played more than 1 or 2 games, so I just think the whole idea of the game being broken right now is just, silly.
You underestimate the dedication of hardcore gamers enjoying a final week before heading back to college. I’m 5 games in having had the game since last Friday :) This isn’t counting a couple test games against my room mate just playing Germany v Russia 1v1’s so I didn’t have to learn the dynamic on the fly mid-game.