@cousin_joe:
@Bluestroke:
Again, disclaimer we use **Sub Stealth Rule. **
Note: we use the hidden rule-where subs orders are written down on paper and you only see them when a destroyer finds em or you attack out of the blue… and at 6 IPC there are a lot of subs(add improved ship yards Tech at 5 IPC the wolf pack is back.)
Bluestroke,
You are playing an entirely different game here
If the DDs don’t know where the SUBs are, then yes, SUBs will be viable
We are talking about OOTB rules here though
DDs know exactly where SUBs are, and what support units they will need to bring in to finish them off
SUBs are near useless in such a combat system
Short of having to write where hidden units are on paper (which will never fly in online play), I think the simplest way to replicate what you’re doing, is not to have detection of SUBs by DDs automatic. Instead, have each DD roll a “Detection Roll” to see if SUBs are detected or not…
SUB Detection Rolls and DD-to-detect values
-All attacking and defending SUBs are “Undetected” at the start of Combat. Each SUB has a DD-to-detect value, which is 3 at baseline, and represents the likelihood of being detected (a higher value means more likely to be detected)
-Only DDs can “Detect” SUBs. In the first cycle of combat, prior to Opening Fire, EACH DD in the attacking and/or defending force rolls a SUB Detection Roll. If at least ONE SUB Detection Roll is less than or equal to an opposing SUB’s DD-to-detect value, Those specific enemy SUBs are considered “Detected”.
-If none of the rolls are less than or equal to a SUB’s DD-to-detect value, Those SUBs remain “Undetected.” If there are no opposing DDs, then all SUBs would remain “Undetected”.
-Undetected SUBs may submerge on Opening fire and thus avoid further combat
This would greatly increase SUB survivability and make them much more likely to be used (especially in conjunction with some Convoy Raiding Rules).
Joe, What you say is true. We are not OOB. That is why I denote our game,
" AA50 House rules, " and include mention of Sub Stealth.
We do not use Sub detection. Its OOB Automatic detection when a DD is in the Sea Zone. The Sub Stealth only modifies OOB, the fact, you don’t see subs until the DD shows up. OOB rules except, when your submerge, no one sees the sub, until you pop up or a DD shows up in your Sea Zone. This is simple and very powerful.
Your path to attack is hidden. Its how subs operate, ambush attackers.
Though, I like your detection rules. I will present them to the guys and see if we can adopt them. The are very KISS orientated, its hard to get new stuff into our game.
Hell, I try every game to get something in-LOL.
Even if, we did not use this rule, I find subs a useful cheap unit under OOB rules. Especially when combined with airpower. Have you used this combination?
True, We don’t play online, its face to face 4 player games.
Face to Face, its the way the game was designed.
I like the instant interaction of board game play.
I know, Online play would be used by me, if I did not have players readily available.
I could see where management of sub stealth would require a modification of online protocols.