• On turn 1:
    Hawaii was taken with 2 inf, 1 art, and 1 aa. The sz contained 3 cv, 3 ftr, 3 tb, 2 bb, 1 ca, 2 dd, 1 sub, and 3 tr at EoT.

    ANZAC sub was sunk

    UK bb & tr’s were sunk (bomber from Man & Kiangsu, ftr from Formosa - lost ftr) With the loss of the tr’s UK can’t grab islands and if they purchase new ones it will limit the ground forces needed to keep Japan at bay from Burma & India.

    Japan placed an ic in Kwangsi

    US counterattacked Hawaii sz, the cv, a ftr, tb, & bomber survived after damaging Jap capital ships which repair on their turn. No Jap air losses. He conceded the game.

    Even if US didn’t counterattack, Japan would have attacked the remaining US fleet. With the Jap fleet camped out at Hawaii any new ship buys will be blown away as soon as they come into play and Japan can direct most of their new buys at ANZAC &/or UK.

    There is no defense to Hawaii being attacked other than hoping for J bad rolls as it happened on J turn 1. Can Allies recover from this first turn strategy?

    We couldn’t come up with a solution so we made it so it takes 2 movement to go thru sz 16 which prevents a 1st turn attack on Hawaii island.

    Any thoughts?


  • sounds to me that somepe conceded too early…thet attacks u describe sound tasty to be sure…but…I wouldn’t have quit so fast…it is still  up to japan to take the cities it needs…and the allies ca defend teir teritories for a while  while the us gets back into the game


  • There is no reason to quit after 1 round. The US income is increased by 40 IPC. The Hawaii attack is always an option by Japan, but it does not mean the War is over. With the Jap navy over on the east side of the map the UK/ANZAK have an opportunity to take control of the DEI. Also, the US can build a new navy and build their ground forces if they think a Jap invasion is coming. Play it out for at least a couple of rounds. I once seen someone lose the WUS by the 3rd round, but the war lasted a long time.


  • I think it is reasonable to consider what-if on a J1 all-out-Hawaii strategy.  What is the US afraid of on J2?  Yes, with all the IJN in Hawaii, the starting fleet on the west coast is threatened.  US1 is still a mess because it doesn’t get the extra 40 IPCs yet and with only 17 IPCs you can’t prevent Japan from squashing your initial navy.  But …

    Japan isn’t going to take San Francisco on J2.  They can sink the fleet, but they are not taking San Francisco.  The US buy on US1 should make sure they don’t.

    Is Japan going to sit there in Hawaii with the whole IJN (save 1 CA, DD and SS)?  I don’t think they can aford that.  Their money is in the DEI, just like history.  If they sit there, the US player needs to just have enough ground units to make sure any reinforcing of Hawaii to launch an attack on the west coast doesn’t have a significant chance of winning.  With the IJN in SZ 26, US saves their remaining money and waits.  I think that the Japanese can not wait indefinately and the rest of their game will come to a hault without getting any significant more IPCs.  If I am correct, the US will make one huge Navy buy after another, and the IJN will have to withdraw from Hawaii or face anhilation.

    Here is a hypothetical, if the US buys only 9 subs on one turn at Western US, how does the IJN respond?  I know they will say we will sink them.  With what?  Can they bring enough DDs to give their planes enough rolls to wipe out all the subs before they run out of DDs and the attack ends with US subs still on the board?


  • @dinosaur:

    I think it is reasonable to consider what-if on a J1 all-out-Hawaii strategy.  What is the US afraid of on J2? 
    Is Japan going to sit there in Hawaii with the whole IJN (save 1 CA, DD and SS)?  I don’t think they can aford that.  Their money is in the DEI, just like history.  If they sit there, the US player needs to just have enough ground units to make sure any reinforcing of Hawaii to launch an attack on the west coast doesn’t have a significant chance of winning.  With the IJN in SZ 26, US saves their remaining money and waits.  I think that the Japanese can not wait indefinately and the rest of their game will come to a hault without getting any significant more IPCs.  If I am correct, the US will make one huge Navy buy after another, and the IJN will have to withdraw from Hawaii or face anhilation.
    Here is a hypothetical, if the US buys only 9 subs on one turn at Western US, how does the IJN respond?  I know they will say we will sink them.  With what?  Can they bring enough DDs to give their planes enough rolls to wipe out all the subs before they run out of DDs and the attack ends with US subs still on the board?

    Why shouldn’t IJN sit there, they will build additional fleet to augment the other  smaller fleet…  they can add to their fleet much easier and faster than UK or ANZAC while buying ground units…
    as for the dd’s,  you only need one dd to spot ALL the subs in the same sz!


  • @jeff10461:

    Why shouldn’t IJN sit there, they will build additional fleet to augment the other  smaller fleet…  they can add to their fleet much easier and faster than UK or ANZAC while buying ground units…
    as for the dd’s,  you only need one dd to spot ALL the subs in the same sz!

    Statistically even odds, 1 DD & 6 planes against 9 subs will allow the planes one round of combat, and then the DD will be dead, and 5 to 6 remaining subs submerge to strike back against hawaii with whatever planes might be ready in West USA.  So you need way more than 1 dd to sink 9 subs.  So you’d have to send a major portion of the fleet there, and probably not the carriers, because you wouldn’t want to risk them taking hits and losing the ability to land planes.  And if you send BB’s as soakers, they’ll only be good for one hit, putting Japan in worse shape defensively, which means you’ll probably want to retreat.  If you retreat, at least some of the subs lived, which gives the US fodder.

    Also assuming Japan did a foolhardy invasion, the US can easily hold San Fran on J2 with their first turn buy, Japan runs out of units to try and take it, the US can easily sit on their income for a round (they’re secure, and safe, even IF Japan leaves a fleet in Hawaii as a scare tactic) and then drop 100+ income in a turn on a truely hellish navy.

    Bottom line, Japan can take Hawaii but would be foolish to think the games over.  Your partner quit far too soon.


  • the real truth of the matter is that Japan is working against time in this game…basically the Japs have to capture the cities they need within a certain number of turns before the USA gets too strong and starts kicking Japan A$$ across the board…


  • the real truth of the matter is that Japan is working against time in this game…basically the Japs have to capture the cities they need within a certain number of turns before the USA gets too strong and starts kicking Japan A$$ across the board…


  • isn’t kwangsi worth 1, so impossible to build IC?


  • the real truth of the matter is that Japan is working against time in this game…basically the Japs have to capture the cities they need within a certain number of turns before the USA gets too strong and starts kicking Japan A$$ across the board…

    That has not really been our experience so far. Japan doesnt need to capture the 6 cities to ‘win’, all they need to do is have a higher income than the Allies and still retain her superior positioning and the game is pretty much over without the need to play out to the grinding end. And to accomplish this, the Japanese only need to take out the Brits and China without becoming crippled at sea.

    Japan with control of the DEI and India will likely be making 75+. The US will still be making 55 and the Anzacs probably 15. From there, the US is no longer in a superior position to trade with Japan. In addition, the Allies have to cover 2 VCs (Hawaii and NSW) and a slip at either means the official end of the game.


  • I’ve had to face this and it is a pain.  But there are options for the US.

    First off the attack on Pearl is only 62% for Japan to win, and even if they win they should only have a handful of units left, like 1 or 2, 3 at the most.  If they fail to take pearl you can hide your fleet in SZ2 while blocking SZ 25 with a destroyer, this means Japan fails to take Pearl till turn 3, by which time US should have naval parity.

    If the attack succeeds you have a problem with the US, because 6 planes can hit along with the remaining units.  If you leave your fleet there the Jap will sink it and soak most of the hits with capital ships, then retreat to Pearl.  The first thing you have to do is see if you need more ground units to keep WUS safe.  If you don’t need any more, then that is awesome, you purchase an airbase and put it on the johnston island, move all your boats except a DD (to block bombard) down there along with your planes.  Even the fig from phil can make it to the carrier.  Then ANZAC can land all 4 of her figs on the island as well.  At that point the IJN would have to defeat a naval force of: 7 figs, 2 tacs, 1 BB, 1 Cru, 1 AC, and 1 SS.  It is a fight they can win, but they will not have much left afterwords and on US3 you drop a huge navy.  You could also use the island Samoa.  On following US turns you can either build up a huge airforce, simply save for a turn to drop a massive navy and send your boats in the DEI area, or whatever you wish.

    Now for the trick where Japan stacks Pearl with fighters.  Simply send your fleet to Midway once it is large enough, then Japan is forced to defend 2 key islands.

    But, the big thing is, if you scramble a tac to negate the shore bombard at Pearl, it is a 62% chance for them to win, if they do win you still have a good chance to win the game!  If they loose then it will cost them the game.

    @Uncle Joe: The really funny thing about this map is this.  If Japan controls all of asia and the Philippine islands they make 55 IPC a turn, same as the US.  This is why DEI is the absolutely most important area in the game.  It is the economic decision maker on who has the advantage.


  • @Uncle Joe: The really funny thing about this map is this.  If Japan controls all of asia and the Philippine islands they make 55 IPC a turn, same as the US.  This is why DEI is the absolutely most important area in the game.  It is the economic decision maker on who has the advantage.

    Yes, they really took great pains to try and flow the game into the DEI. The naval base set up and the sea zone connections really conspire (along with the economic value of course) to make that the primary battleground. I think in general this is a good thing. So far, however, the South Pacific hasnt really seen much action in our games. The Anzacs often get their bonus and hold it since it doesnt seem to be worth it to the Japanese to extend that far. The risk/reward ratio seems pretty low IMO. Now if the US was getting a bonus and not the Anzacs, I might want to spend a little more effort to go in and take it away but even there I’m not convinced the 5 IPCs/turn swing would be worth the cost/risk of fighting there.

    Still, as the game matures it’s quite possible that the Japanese would want to secure one or more of the SoPac territories to protect against raids into the DEI and that would pretty much coincide with historical strategies to extend the defensive perimeter.


  • I think it all depends on your strategic focus as Japan.  Most players try to do a crush india strat from the get-go while holding on in the DEI area.  I think in the future we may see more strats where Japan focuses more on the ANZAC/pearl area to keep the DEI secure while they slowly whittle away at the UK.  In all honesty, with the convoy at India and Malaya japan should easily be able to place a sub or two into those areas and reduce UK’s income to a 1-3 IPC a round within 2 turns of declaring war.  And the SoPac territories only require 3 drops to acquire and you really don’t want ANZAC getting the extra 5, at least I don’t, so I always try to keep 1 of 'em.  And if I got 1, getting the other 3 are pretty easy so it all depends.


  • @Frontovik:

    isn’t kwangsi worth 1, so impossible to build IC?

    We have played this wrong… missed the ipc value requirement


  • Also, Japan could not land the AA in hawaii on the turn that Japan takes it.  Next round they can.


  • @RJL518:

    sounds to me that somepe conceded too early…thet attacks u describe sound tasty to be sure…but…I wouldn’t have quit so fast…it is still  up to japan to take the cities it needs…and the allies ca defend teir teritories for a while  while the us gets back into the game

    I told my opponent that he was conceding too soon, but he convinced me it was over…. after reading the responses to my post I agree he shouldn’t have and I will try some of the stratagies suggested should that attack  happen against me as allies


  • @Piazza2425:

    Also, Japan could not land the AA in hawaii on the turn that Japan takes it.  Next round they can.

    I’ll have to review the rules again, in this case it didn’t matter, US couldn’t get thru the navy to assault the island.


  • I have a counter hypothetical proposal for you.  If the Japanese take Hawaii and decide to leave the IJN there to take out the US west coast fleet, could the Japanese build enough subs themselves to shut down the US economy?


  • No, because 40 of there income is from an NO and cannot be convoy raided  :-(

Suggested Topics

Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

33

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts