Haiti-Total disaster!!

Horrible. 50,000+ lost and no warning.

But i did find out something:

Haiti fought off some European army around 1805-6 and basically bankrupted somebody who ruled somewhere, which forced somebody to sell the Louisiana Purchase to generate cash and which helped form the United States.

I think the they lost something like 60,000 men… a total massacre.

So Haiti indirectly helped us expand.

A terrible event for a country which is such a disaster to begin with. You couldn’t begin to comprehend how bad it is unless you have spent time there.  Some of the aftershocks were felt on this section of the forum this afternoon.

@Imperious:

Horrible. 50,000+ lost and no warning.

But i did find out something:

Haiti fought off the French army around 1805-6 and basically bankrupted Napoleon, which forced him to sell the Louisiana Purchase to generate cash and which helped form the United States.

I think the French lost something like 60,000 men… a total massacre.

So Haiti indirectly helped us expand.

Yah, it ended in 1803(thats when the louisiana purchase was). kinda ironic. And I have heard they are estimating the dead at over 100,000 although I imagine even now it is hard to come up with an accuarte estimate.

I just hope people understand that the goal of the aid that is sent there should not be to return the country to what it was before the disaster and instead to create a nation that accauly works.

@Emperor_Taiki:

I just hope people understand that the goal of the aid that is sent there should not be to return the country to what it was before the disaster and instead to create a nation that accauly works.

According to Corruption Perceptions Index, Haiti has a particularly high level of corruption. You speak of using the aid money to create a nation that ‘actually works’, but how exactly does one go about doing that? History has shown that the more money you throw at corrupt countries the fatter the Swiss bank accounts of the corrupt leaders that rule them swell.

Yes it is a tragedy that this disaster occurred, but we don’t have a duty now to invest heavily in Haiti out of some patronising pity ethic. I personally think we give far too much aid to third world countries, which simply generates a culture on dependency and further adds to the long term problem.

“Yes it is a tragedy that this disaster occurred, but we don’t have a duty now to invest heavily in Haiti out of some patronising pity ethic. I personally think we give far too much aid to third world countries, which simply generates a culture on dependency and further adds to the long term problem.”

You seem to forget that some underdeveloped country are not capable of developing themselves because of our protectionism, mainly in the domain of agriculture. (And since their economy is pretty much agricultural, they are pretty much confined to poverty)
While money aid is not the best solution, we can’t simply ignore the fact that a third of this world (and I dare to say even more than that) is living in extreme poverty.

@Emperor_Taiki:

I just hope people understand that the goal of the aid that is sent there should not be to return the country to what it was before the disaster and instead to create a nation that accauly works.

It’s probably not the goal of aid not make the country working, that should be the goal of the leaders in Haiti.

A Norwegian Geologist said that the earthquake was not terribly strong, but many of the deaths are caused directly by poverty, and thereby, (imo) the fact that Haiti is a country who is ruled very very badly.

don’t get me wrong, but i think the earthquacke could do little to make the situation worse
people were already starving and homeless…

I try to remind myself, as a middle class westerner, I’m among the wealther percent of the world’s population.

Pretty damn sad.  I’m going to donate on my next paycheck.  I did it for the Tsunami a few years back and any other time a major event happens.  It’s not much, but it’s something.

Corruption hasn’t been much of an issue as it was with Aristide, and he’s gone now.  I’m sure it’s still there, but the UN has been operating in Haiti in regards to stabilizing the region.  I do have a critique of them when the UN command told a UN hospital to pull out due to safety concerns, and left many injured/dying.

The reason why the earthquake affects them so much is that it is not quite an industrialized, affluent nation.  It may never be - it’s a small economy with not much to “pop” growth.  It’s not like Haiti can go out and get a job to improve itself.  Historically it has been at the whim of colonial powers - UK, US, Germany even.  I would bet that is a big force behind the aid given today.

Hopefully it is used to improve agriculture and infrastructure, but there is a long way to go concerning poverty, education, and jobs.

It has been encouraging to see the quick, determined US response.  We are not just sending money, we are sending a lot of medical, construction people, and a lot of people are going of their own free will and not being paid a cent.  Many go on their own expense.  It’s called true Christianity - there is no other explanation.  You don’t go to Haiti on your own expense into a dangerous, uncomfortable situation just because you feel sorry for some people you saw in a picture on TV.  You go because it’s what you believe in.  The UN pulled people out right away.  I thought they were there to help?

Besides going myself, the best way I can help is to give money to capable, compassionate people who are going down there themselves.

Also, I have been sponsoring a child to go through school in Haiti for about 10 years now.  We write back and forth over the years.  I’m afraid there is a good chance that she is hurt or dead.  As ABWorsham said, we forget that being a middle class midwesterner in America, we are in like the top 1-2% of the world’s population in wealth, yet most of us spend most of our wealth on ourselves, as if we need it.  We have hot water, never worry about food, shelter, clothing, medical care, or transportation.  If you have all these things, too, you are extremely wealthy.  I’m not writing about what I’ve done to boast, because I haven’t done nearly enough with the resources that I have.  I write these things to encourage others to reach down and help others who are having a terrible life, and can’t help it.

As many of you have ably pointed out, it is a dark, corrupt, poverty-stricken island.  There aren’t easy solutions, and in 20 years, Haiti is probably going to be just as bad off as it has been for who knows how long.

@gamerman01:

And IL, I’m sorry, but I can’t understand how you can be rejoicing about the Louisiana purchase at Haiti’s expense right now.  I mean, I live in the LA purchase, and I’m really grateful for it, but come on - this discussion is about the total disaster in Haiti.  Show some heart, friend.

That was more about France.  Paris took IL’s lunch money, gave him swirlies, and always picked him last in kickball when they were kids so he takes any opportunity now to deride them.

No just a factoid that comes to mind. They helped make our nation possible, so we should repay the favor with aid.

The the post had that in mind. And no this is not a france thread.

OK, I appreciate the clarification IL.
I’ll edit my post.

thanks

I feel bad for Haiti, but I will not send them any money as my government is already doing that which is coming from my tax dollars already.
And no we don’t need any more refugees here in our country breaking our already broken system.

like always, i blame the british, spanish and Belgians (myself)
we had the big colonies, which sucked out the economys of spanish america, Congo and india

@Frontovik:

like always, i blame the british, spanish and Belgians (myself)
we had the big colonies, which sucked out the economys of spanish america, Congo and india

I must say you lost me on that post. Could you please elaborate?