Dutch Islands and UK/ANZAC Airplanes

  • '10

    Dear Krieghund

    I wonder if it’s possible to land UK or ANZAC fighters and tac bombers on the dutch islands before the UK/ANZAC troops moved in and take the income.

    We had a situation in turn 1 when the UK Player sunk a few japanese ships in the Java sea zone and land his airplanes on Java befor UK/ANZAC trops take control of it.

    I think it is possible, cause the dutch and the UK/ANZANC are allies.

    But is it correct?

  • Customizer

    Krieg, I would also like to know the answer to this. My gut says its ok to land there, but I am not 100% sure.


  • I’m curious to see the answer to this as well.

    From everything I understand, I’m assuming they should be allowed to. Since, with the exception of UK/ANZAC being able to garrison them and take their income, the Dutch territories are treated by the UK/ANZAC as territories of an ally whose capital is in enemy hands.

    So if that’s the case, you should be able to use them as a landing point……I think?

  • Official Q&A

    It looks like everyone agrees that they can.

  • '19 '18 '17 '16 '15 '14 '13 '10

    @Krieghund:

    It looks like everyone agrees that they can.

    Does a troop still need to go there to get the bonus?

  • Customizer

    so they can?

    i agree, but this makes coding it for triplea 1000x harder now

  • Official Q&A

    @thenorthman:

    Does a troop still need to go there to get the bonus?

    Yes.  You can’t take control of a territory with air units.


  • @Veqryn:

    so they can?

    i agree, but this makes coding it for triplea 1000x harder now

    Assuming you’re talking about planes landing there, just make the Dutch a power in the game. You’d have to wait through their turn, but it wouldn’t take that long as they’ll have no money or units.


  • @EvilGardenGnome:

    @Veqryn:

    so they can?

    i agree, but this makes coding it for triplea 1000x harder now

    Assuming you’re talking about planes landing there, just make the Dutch a power in the game. You’d have to wait through their turn, but it wouldn’t take that long as they’ll have no money or units.

    That wouldn’t solve it I guess. If you make the Dutch an allied power (which is needed to have the planes land there), UK and/or ANZAC would never be able to occupy the DEI to collect the income.

    Wouldn’t it be possible to implement a 4th type of nation into the engine, next to allied, axis and neutral?

  • Official Q&A

    I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I have some further thoughts.

    I don’t think that UK/ANZAC planes should be allowed to land on Dutch or French territories while they’re still Dutch or French controlled, unless they are at war.  The reason for this is that powers not at war are prohibited from moving units into territories belonging to other powers.  The UK/ANZAC exception to this rule is the ability to take control of these territories with land units only.  This seems to indicate that the UK or ANZAC can’t move units into these territories until either they’re at war or they take control of them, and they can’t do that with air units alone.


  • I dunno….
    Stepping outside a Rules perspective, the prohibition against “air units only” taking control of a territory serves well to model the operational reality that you need boots on the ground to seize and hold airfields etc.

    But I don’t think that prohibition serves well as a precedent for this situation where the considerations are political not tactical.  Indeed, it is quite common to permit Allies to base air units in your country.  After all, it’s usually more acceptable to your citizenry and less inflammatory on the international scene.

  • Customizer

    @Krieghund:

    I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I have some further thoughts.

    I don’t think that UK/ANZAC planes should be allowed to land on Dutch or French territories while they’re still Dutch or French controlled, unless they are at war.

    I agree with this.  It seems to me that this would follow the same “friendly” rules that were discussed in another thread.  Although the US and UK are “friendly”, they are not allies at the start and therefore cannot land planes in each other’s territory.  I think the same would apply here.  Although the UK and Dutch might be “friendly”, they are not allies, so UK can’t land here until they take it with ground troops (same goes for the French territories, as well).


  • @Krieghund:

    I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I have some further thoughts.

    I don’t think that UK/ANZAC planes should be allowed to land on Dutch or French territories while they’re still Dutch or French controlled, unless they are at war.  The reason for this is that powers not at war are prohibited from moving units into territories belonging to other powers.  The UK/ANZAC exception to this rule is the ability to take control of these territories with land units only.  This seems to indicate that the UK or ANZAC can’t move units into these territories until either they’re at war or they take control of them, and they can’t do that with air units alone.

    Oh my God, why didn’t you think about that before the game was released ? What kind of playtesters are you anyway ? I could see this issue the very same day I opened the box, but you playtesters and designers use years, and even after the game is out in the shop, then you come and say “Sh*t we missed that”. O’boy, I can say no more, I just want my money back. The company cheap out and give me only 6 tactical fighters, and 12 of all other units, and I can deal with that, I just buy another game and get the tacs I need for set-up, butt when you cant make even a simple rule, then I am dead set. Now I want you guys to playtest the Europe game one more year before you release it, OK ?

  • Official Q&A

    Overreacting a bit, Raz?  This is just a simple interpretation of a minor rule, not a change to the rules.


  • @Krieghund:

    I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I have some further thoughts.

    I don’t think that UK/ANZAC planes should be allowed to land on Dutch or French territories while they’re still Dutch or French controlled, unless they are at war.

    I assume the Dutch have already lost their capital.

    How does one declared war on a fallen country?


  • Interesting sub-plot

    Landing two infantry at Java is a neat tactic for UK to slow down the UK….but since it is an allied territory…you could land some fighters there with them two, and turn it into a bonus denial fortress

    implications?

  • Official Q&A

    @Ryx:

    @Krieghund:

    I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I have some further thoughts.

    I don’t think that UK/ANZAC planes should be allowed to land on Dutch or French territories while they’re still Dutch or French controlled, unless they are at war.

    I assume the Dutch have already lost their capital.

    How does one declared war on a fallen country?

    Unless the UK and ANZAC are at war, not the Dutch or French.


  • @Krieghund:

    @Ryx:

    @Krieghund:

    I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I have some further thoughts.

    I don’t think that UK/ANZAC planes should be allowed to land on Dutch or French territories while they’re still Dutch or French controlled, unless they are at war.

    I assume the Dutch have already lost their capital.

    How does one declared war on a fallen country?

    Unless the UK and ANZAC are at war, not the Dutch or French.

    Thank you.

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