Convoys

@elque:

Thank for the fine updates on the new rules. Regarding convoys: Can we assume that subs and surface ships designated to disrupt convoys can participate in no other naval battles during the same game turn?

No, because convoy disruption takes place during the collect income phase, and has nothing to do with combat moves.  If an enemy still has ships in a convoy zone at the end of your turn it would make perfect sense that your convoy is disrupted, regardless of whether you tried to destroy them that turn, because they’re STILL “blocking” your IPC’s from reaching the mainland.

can subs disrupt a convoy in a sea zone where a destroyer is present?

can subs disrupt a convoy in a sea zone where a destroyer is present?

Uh… no? A submarine cannot end its movement in a sea zone occupied by a destroyer. A submarine cannot go through an enemy fleet that has a destroyer

@Omega:

can subs disrupt a convoy in a sea zone where a destroyer is present?

Uh… no? A submarine cannot end its movement in a sea zone occupied by a destroyer. A submarine cannot go through an enemy fleet that has a destroyer

Well if the turn sequence is the same as AA50 then it could.

Example UK convoy zone off coast of England. German sub in zone (survived battle) UK mobilizes its new units before it collects income right. It now places its new DD in the same sz. Next phase collect income/pay convoy’s. My question is if a sub submerged does it still cause damage.

Still, why must convoy disruption be “declared”, if it’s no part of the combat fase?

@oztea:

can subs disrupt a convoy in a sea zone where a destroyer is present?

Yes.

@Omega:

A submarine cannot end its movement in a sea zone occupied by a destroyer. A submarine cannot go through an enemy fleet that has a destroyer

The first statement is not true.  The second statement is.  Destroyers stop the movement of enemy subs “upon entering the sea zone”.  A sub may move into a sea zone with an enemy destroyer - it just can’t keep moving through.

@WILD:

My question is if a sub submerged does it still cause damage.

Ah, submerging.  One of the things to understand here is that submerging doesn’t work in the same way as it did in Revised.  Look carefully through the rules, and you won’t see a reference to submerged subs anywhere other than in relation to combat.  In these rules (as well as in AA50 and AA42), submerging does nothing more than remove a sub from combat and place it back on the game board.  It has no further effect.  Once the sub is back on the game board, the fact that it submerged to escape combat is no longer relevant to anything.  You don’t need to turn it on its side, because there’s no need to remember that it submerged.

The only case I can think of where a submerged sub has an effect on subsequent events is during an amphibious assault, and even that is combat-related.  If there’s a sub in the sea zone and you choose to attack it, it may submerge (assuming you don’t have a destroyer).  Because the sub submerged, it won’t block your assault even though you attacked it and didn’t destroy it.  This effect is momentary and is resolved between the sea and land battles of the assault, so there is no need to remember that the sub submerged beyond that point.

We actually considered changing the term “submerge” to something else to avoid confusion with the Revised rules, but we couldn’t think of anything appropriate.  I wish we had changed it, as it’s always been a source of confusion, even in Revised.  After all, subs don’t really fight on the surface, do they?  They’re nearly always submerged in combat.  The term “submerge”, as it’s used in the game, really refers to diving deep, as opposed to remaining near the surface where it can attack and be attacked.

So the answer to your question is:  It doesn’t matter, as subs aren’t “submerged” during the Collect Income phase.

@KH:

Still, why must convoy disruption be “declared”, if it’s no part of the combat fase?

If you have a ship in a convoy zone adjacent to a territory controlled by a power with with you are not at war, you may not wish to disrupt its convoy.  Doing so will result in war.

OK, thanks…

Now elque’s question is cleared imo.

Meaning;
When the war is already ongoing and a player attacks enemy warships in a convoy markered seazone, no convoy disruption declaration is necessary anymore and the attacking player automatically burns enemy IPC’s when the outcome of the battle is victorious and at least one his ships survives.

Correct?

jap sub and ANZAC sub in japan seazone
is there damage to the convoy or not?

@KH:

… and the attacking player automatically burns enemy IPC’s when the outcome of the battle is victorious and at least one his ships survives.
Correct?

No.  Convoy disruption is done during the collect income phase (not combat phase) of the person that’s going to lose the income.  If you’re japan, and you have a sub next to an Anzac territory, Anzac will lose 2 IPCs during income collection (assuming Japan chooses to do this or is already at war).
@Frontovik:

jap sub and ANZAC sub in japan seazone
is there damage to the convoy or not?

Yes, during Japan’s collect income phase.  So, if Anzac just placed the sub or sent it there, Japan has a full turn to send the boat to the deep.

Thanks for responding Kcdzim.

But what about the first part of my question;
“When the war is already ongoing and a player attacks enemy warships in a convoy markered seazone, no convoy disruption declaration is necessary anymore”.

?

Once you’re at war you can assume declaration if you like.  It certainly makes sense.

@oztea:

can subs disrupt a convoy in a sea zone where a destroyer is present?

First one has to answer HOW this destroyer got there at the time of convoy raiding!

If the DD was moved there during Combat Move, then the DD or the sub will be gone (destroyed unit or retreated DD) by the end of conduct combat.

If the DD was mobilized there then the Collect Income is next and the Convoy Raid occurs.

@BadSpeller:

If the DD was mobilized there then the Collect Income is next and the Convoy Raid occurs.

you answered your own question.

@kcdzim:

@BadSpeller:

If the DD was mobilized there then the Collect Income is next and the Convoy Raid occurs.

you answered your own question.

Opps….sorry.

@BadSpeller:

Opps….sorry.

Unless you are WOTC - never say “sorry”

Can Convoy Disruption occur without a declaration of war?

No.