1941 New Turn Order: China goes before Japan


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  • I have made this suggestion several times. Actukally I suggested China go first, that way you would end/begin a round with USA/China. I received about as much feedback on it as you have so far. Perhaps the idea will generate more interest now that another has also brought it up.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    This is a popular house rule, so is allowing China to configure their own placement at the game start.

    Some others also believe allowing China to collect her men/income at the end of thier turn as opposed to the beginning works effectively.


  • @Gargantua:

    Some others also believe allowing China to collect her men/income at the end of thier turn as opposed to the beginning works effectively.

    It’s a good idea. I often play FTF with China colecting income and paying 2 IPCs for inf, fig rebuilt with USA money


  • i really like the idea of china going first, US going last.  gonna have to try it.


  • Historical accuracy is a thing that simply doesn’t happen in AA41. China is toasted J1, J2 as much in this fantasy scenario. There was no way of that happening in 1941 or early 42 because China had a horde reserve army. They had some small trained forces (mainly commie forces but also some of KMT) and indeed they were able of build small amounts of artillery. It’s obvious that in case of Flying Tigers dead, USA could send another bunch of figs to support China. China attacked Burma Road as stated in Revised game manual, and I’m pretty sure there were not invisible force fields at chinese borders (and coasts!  :oops: ), and without doubt the force fields were not the ones that could stop the chinamen and only the chinamen. Any resemble with real WWII China and AA50 China is a joke. These and another reasons are for I call AA41 as a fantasy scenario. You could hire nazguls and Sith lords for Germany and USS Enterprise with J.L. Picard at command for USA, for that matter, and there were not much difference  😛


  • @!ACHTUNG!:

    Are you high dude?

    He is right you know. China must be stronger. This game is not balanced. Also IMHO Borneo and East Indies are not worth 8 IPC, they should be 2 IPC each as in classic.


  • Funcioneta is right: China should be stronger, and should have the barrier removed. I’ve been wondering what would happen if if China had the 1942 infantry setup in both '41 and '42, and then had the Flying Tiger in Sikang. I’m not sure if that would fix the issue, but I intend to play it sometime in the near future.


  • you are all right.  if only you could work together china could take over the world.


  • I like the china first thing, better than after russia. Or else just let them move thier fighter off the border. But china isn’t meant to be anything more than a side show, if you want to get more into making people stronger give Italy two transports instead of one to start the game. they make almost the same in cash value except italy can buy different units. I find the game well balanced and enjoy it more than any other version. As long as you have people who know how to play and at least 6 hours. Talk to you later Achtung. And Gargantua, see you both on the 28th.


  • well said, like the italy thing too.


  • ach-not sure where all the hostility is coming from :?.
    Especially when I was in essence agreeing with you 😐

    End of turn collection and placement sounds pretty good as well but the Flying Tigers will still be dead 😞


  • @Adlertag:

    @!ACHTUNG!:

    Are you high dude?

    He is right you know. China must be stronger. This game is not balanced. Also IMHO Borneo and East Indies are not worth 8 IPC, they should be 2 IPC each as in classic.

    Totally agree with this. Especially as Japan gets the 5 IPCs for owning them on top of the 8 they are worth! In fact - surely that makes them worth 13 IPCs - more than W USA.

  • '16 '15 '10

    I really like the idea of China going first.  A bigger and badder China would be fun.  I worry that it swings the game balance in favor of the Allies though.  Axis might need a bid.


  • All Chinese TT’s being worth zero would help as well. Does not effect their production and makes it more of a money pit for Japan.


  • @critmonster:

    All Chinese TT’s being worth zero would help as well. Does not effect their production and makes it more of a money pit for Japan.

    This might be a good change, but I would deffinitely leave Manchuria, Kiangsu, Kwangtung, and French Indo-China’s IPC values alone.

    The coastal areas were quite important and definitely worth the IPCs.  I live in Manchuria, and the Japanese really took a lot of economic resources out of this area and built up this area a lot.  A Japanese starting IC in Manchuria would not be out of line historically.

    Maybe 1 or 2 of the other territories could still be worth 1 IPC, but having 3-5 of the interior starting Chinese territories with 0 IPC values definitely might be a good change.


  • Bard- That is what I was suggesting, starting territories worth 0, coastal Jap (and Kwangtung) TT’s unchanged.

  • Customizer

    Ok… so I’ve read of a lot of folks supporting the idea of China going first, and someone mentioned that it’s a popular house rule.  But I haven’t read of anyone playing a couple or several games this way - only commentary on it. Someone have any summaries as to how this turn-order change effected their game(s)? I’d be curious to hear 'em, I unfortunately don’t have the time to play too often - so when I do I like any new stuff to be kinda “solid” so-to-speak…  😐

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I was the first to do that. Posted on my AA50 house rules before that game came out. I never saw any house rules for AA50 before the game came out other than mine.China plays with the Soviets. The other method is they build with the Soviets, and move with the Americans so they cant try to take out Japanese territories on C1.  I also allow the Burma road which allows one additional infantry as long as UK controls Burma. last option is the fighter is rebuildable if the US player wants to take one fighter ( but only one).

  • Customizer

    @!ACHTUNG!:

    The person who said it was a popular house rule was Gargantua and he should know since he is Canada’s best player. Personally, I had never heard of changing the turn order to:Germany, Russian, China, Japan, UK, Italy, US until I mentioned it.

    Umm… ok.  I’ll take your word on him being the best Canuck player.  I don’t think that was ever brought up as an issue.  So Gargantua - have you used this change often?  Could I get a general overview of how you think it effected the game?  We usually play 1941 with NO’s… Or IL, since it sounds like you’re a veteran to the change as well, give me the skinny on it… I’m/we’re not looking to make China a 7th player, just more than a thorn…

    Not really bothered as to who first conceived the variant - whoever it is, sounds like it might be just what China (in my sessions) is looking for…

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    OK Gordon, Show me the post……the question is has anyone play tested the China goes before Japan concept. I may do it this weekend provided Canuck12 isn’t too scared to out to the Fraser Valley.

    My name is Mr. Ramsey!

    And of course it’s playtested. But my rules are laid out in a ala carte fashion. You pick the ideas you like but obviously if you take too many allied favorable rules your game will not be too balanced.

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12316.0

  • Customizer

    @!ACHTUNG!:

    No need to take my word Viracocha, Gargantua has it written on his profile. Check his profile on the first page. He also claims to never have lost a game of AA50.

    I never bother with checking out the profiles but ok…  Huh.  I think that’s a pretty hardcore boast…  The lyrics (Silver Wings upon-) are from the 60’s Green Beret song yeah?
    As far as having never lost an AA50 game - huh, that’s a pretty good track record.

    Bah!  This has deviated from the original reason for my post!  :x


  • @Viracocha:

    @!ACHTUNG!:

    No need to take my word Viracocha, Gargantua has it written on his profile. Check his profile on the first page. He also claims to never have lost a game of AA50.

    Maybe he has never played. You can’t lose, if you don’t play.

  • Customizer

    Good point, I agree.

  • Customizer

    Of Canada… using the lyrics of an American soldier’s ballad, right…

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