Is There a KJF Strategy in AA41?


  • '16 '15 '10

    While we can certainly imagine a KJF strategy involving an India factory, USA Pacific Offensive, and Russian pressure via China, I have a difficult time seeing this strategy actually working.  Western Axis can switch to all armor as early as G2 and then how does Russia hold out?  And how do the Allies handle Africa and a potential monster Italy?  Perhaps the best bet is to bid units to India early on to bolster that front, or to use some kind of China mod.

    Has anyone had success using KJF tactics against an equally matched opponent?  It’s a shame it seems so hard to contain a Japan that only starts with 17 ipcs……but the map dynamics seem stacked against the tactic.



  • I’m saying this everywhere at the moment - but I believe the key to a KJF is actually a KIF. If you can wipe out Italy’s influence in Africa ASAP then the US can realistically move against Japan in the Pacific. Equally - if the UK can somehow (and against a determined Japanese player they probably won’t) keep an Indian IC alive then the Japanese are probably finding that a to do list:

    a) Help the Axis in Africa
    b) Deal with the UK in India
    c) Keep up with US build in the Pacific (and keep enough navy in range to repel US attacks WHILE moving navy to Africa)
    d) Make the Russians edgy about their eastern border
    e) Swallow China

    is simply to big.

    Wherever they choose to not engage (probably China/Russia) the Allies need to make small advances.

    Of course - the UK needs to try to hold India as economically as possible - and threaten europe with remaining income.

    But I also believe that this dreamlike strategy requires some good allied luck on the dice and a Japanese player to overlook something or other. And don’t be fooled. Even the best will sometimes miss a trick!



  • Take a look at my post on the last page of “preferd option to stall Japan” post.  While it isn’t KJF, it does present some ideas as to how one could keep the option on the table.  In any event, I don’t see how there could be a consistent winning strat for a KJF.



  • From the games we’ve played it is apparent that the 41 set-up favors the Axis and unless the Allies player (s) are very good usually the Axis wins. I have found that each Ally has its own role to play to slow Japan while concentrating on Germany. I do not think you can kill Japan first as Germany would get too large if not kept in check.

    UK should work on both Germany and Japan, and try to hold Africa, India and Austrilia for as long as they can.
    US should concentrate on Japan for the first couple of rounds to get their Pacific fleet out there and challengingand make Japan thick twice of moving to far into russia, then switch to half Germany half Japan as needed.
    Russia should get ground forces going buy lots of tanks and a couple of planes as you can to hold on and counter attack Germany to recapture your lost countries.
    UK needs to come to Russia aid by T4 or sooner.

    These strategies have worked for me in past games. 🙂

    So I would say no to KJF.



  • Sure KJF works, in a sense.  It’s more like NJF.  Neutralize Japan first.  Destroy their navy, reclaim the money islands, and let the Chinese proliferate.  Then kill the other two powers at your leisure.

    Just remember:

    1.  Support your India factory with the Russians.  They have a factory two spaces away and can get troops to Ind before Jpn has a chance to invade.  Combining a few strategies can provide for a pretty safe India.

    2.  Make Jpn fight for their NOs.  It’s their lifeblood, like anyone else.  Moving 7 inf into man from bry on R2 if Jpn doesn’t protect it, protecting Aus from the Jpn fleet via sz 48 is nice.

    3.  Pick off trn when they’re lonely.  Look at how many trn are isolated on a typical J1.  Get creative on ways to destroy them.  Russia can buy a bmb on turn 1, mobilize it in Cau, and hit sz 38 and land in Ind.  sz 61 is vulnerable to American bmb if Fuk or Kwa are still Allied, and if sz 62 can be hit they can land in the safe confines of stc.  One of Japan’s biggest weaknesses is the lack of boots on the mainland, taking out their conveyance slows their expansion.

    4.  Get Britain in China.  Britain is the Allied faction that goes after Japan but before America.  Duh, right?  Well that means any territory they liberate in China is .5 inf and there’s no chance for the Japanese to reclaim it.  The more free boots you put into China, the easier it is for you to cut into that NO for the mainland.



  • I just copied and pasted this from a previous post:

    Some things I do to deal with Japan (note: some options may be contradictory, as I am just listing various options that are on the table  when thinking about my Asian/ Pacific affairs)

    RUSSIAN OPTIONS

    1. Stack Bury: Perhaps you do this only for R1 and then move them out R2, but you will notice it does constrict Japan and limits Japanese options, it also sets up a significant Russian presence quickly. This option can be helped more with other allied strats going on to limit Japanese options.  Also notice, this costs Russia no IPC’s (though it can cost a turn in positioning units)

    2. China pump:  Try pumping in 1-2 inf per turn into China.  Will only be useful in conjunction with other strats.  If you are doing NOTHING else to stop Japan, you may be wasting units.

    3. Airforce:  Buy 1 or 2 fig, make sure they are on either Mos or the Cau.  This can open up a lot of options (I usually insist on having 1 fig on the Cau) at very little (if any cost) to your German campaign.

    4. Persia/Cauc forces:  Do your best to make sure you have at least 2 Russian inf on Persia.  Also, try your hardest to make sure you have at least 1 Russian tank, and hopefully 1 Russian Fig on the Cau.  This not only can set up a 1-2 punch on India, but it also can Relieve the Brits from worrying about Italy holding Jordan.  Notice outside of the 2 inf, Russia is guarantying, no major unit commitment in Asia and Russia still has major units geared up against Germany.

    5. Move Russian Far Eastern Forces to China:  This will put stacks of Russians in Asia at no expense to Russia.  It will take a couple turns to have a significant presence, and you will be giving up (very cheap) ground in Russia, but it is good for a cheap long term strategy.  Bonus: if necessity demands, due to the forces already being moved in that direction, the troops can be used to ward off Germany.  Also, if you have air in Moscow (or Cau) they can be used for counter attacks or maybe even defense.

    UK/US OPTIONS

    1. T1 United Fleet in NZ:  Perhaps land 1-2 US fig in Aus instead of on the Carrier.  If you wish landing 1 bomber in Aus/Hawaii would be useful as well.  If you care nothing for bombers in Europe, bring the second bomber to Hawaii.  The united fleet, while useful in its own right, works much better in conjunction with other  Asian/Pacific theatre tactics (such as the Bury stack).  The fleet can also be completely withdrawn after T1 or the (depending on the scenario) the centre piece for an allied pacific strategy (such as an Australian IC).

    NOTE:  If you choose to withdraw your UK transport towards America, I would suggest in most cases, to leave all UK forces in  Australia and use the Canadians for transport cargo.  Make the Japanese pay as much as possible for taking Australia.

    1. Western United States: Build 1 US transport in Western United States.  This is probably fairly obvious, but it should always be done if given the opportunity, it’s a cheap build anyway and the opportunities it can provide the allies with are great.  Also obvious: build  naval/ air units when you can spare them (this will vary wildly depending on your strategy, main objectives, and the way the Pacific develops; I can see no way of saying how  to develop a consistent US naval building strategy).  Make sure to try to build 1-2 inf per turn.  This is a must if any Japanese ships are within 2 turns from your cost, but you should always try and have something there just in case, and it may also lead to new opportunities in the Pacific.

    3)  Persia:  This is usually my “center piece” for my Allied Asian strategy.  Move all UK units that can reach  into Persia.  This assumes there is no unusual golden opportunities in Africa or building an IC that will last in India.  Japan will have a supply line problem  on the mainland, this will compound itself further if it chooses to build an IC or attack the Philippines J1 (I usually think attacking Phil J1 is non optimal anyway).  Stacking in Persia can put Japan in a decent bind in southern Asia.  If this is working in conjunction with Russian Fig and Arm in Cauc as well as Russian inf in Persia the headache for Japan grows.  Add to that, other areas where the allies may be stacking on T1; Japan all of the sudden  may have some hard decisions to make J2 and may find some of her theatres very hard to re-enforce.  Stacking in Persia does on occasion create an opportunity for a UK3 IC in India.  Also note, the Persian stack can retreat to Russia, if Russia (or the Persian stack) is in dire straits.

    1. United Allied Fleet in SZ 12:  This too can be a centre piece when dealing with Japan.  An unsinkable fleet in SZ 12 puts a threat on France, Italy, and secures Africa.  Italy will most likley no longer be able to move her fleet (in fear of invasion) Germany will have to devote resources to protect France.  It saves the allies money by uniting two fleets (that can be easily and safely re enforced in needed) to work on more important things.  Don’t kill the Italian navy unless it is for some type of game winning deathblow (your positioning on your navy is too important) or if it is with air units that can be sacrificed.

    Keep stacking N. Africa with US troops (unless going in for the kill) and every turn get 3-4 transports worth of gear for the UK and start sending them through N. Africa and March them towards India/Persia/Cauc (Armour builds for the Brits is probably a must, in order for this to be effective).  Also note: Russia can join in the fun in Africa to if it has inf preventing Italy from taking Jordan.  This keeps the UK’s income high, and allows it to bail out Russia if needed all the while threatening Europe with significant pressure.

    1. Alternative use of bombers:  If the situation allows (you have the money/ are not dependant upon a European SBR campaign/ you have a Persian stack) Fly any built US bombers to Persia.  From here they can: a) Threaten the Japanese southern navy/ keep the navy “tight” b) mess with loose Japanes Trannies c) SBR Japanese IC’s in the area d) Threaten the Italian fleet. e) clear out any weak German stacks f) provide very expensive fodder for Russia if Russia is going to be attacked next turn. g) clear weak territories in China if needed e) provide a little defense for Persia (If you have 5 bombers sitting in Persia, that has to be taken into consideration by Japan)

    2. Go North:  If for whatever reason the US can field and send a Pacific fleet up north, do it.  Perhaps Japan has moved her fleet far out of position not expecting it.  Perhaps you somehow are diverting Japans resources to other areas, whatever the reason, if you can start a successful campaign up north, do it.  It will pressure Japan herself, and relieve Russia/China while threatening major Japanese territory (most likely some with IC’s on them).  While there can be no “real true way” to use this strategy consistently, be aware of it.  Also be aware it is very difficult to pull off successfully.  Of course the minute you do this it is time to consider a KJF strat.

    The best way you are going to pull it off is by an overconfident/ lazy Japanese player OR by putting decent pressure on Japan at multiple fronts distracting Japan from more basic goals it should be focused on.

    CONCLUSION

    Note all of these strategy’s are either fairly cheap (as in terms of actually investing IPC’s to the board) and/or flexible (ex: many of them can be aborted fairly quickly or diverted towards Germany.)  They also work on the philosophy of Japan’s early supply problem while focusing on bailing out Russia. and stacking units in multiple theatres in as efficient of a way as possible to make Japan have to go “soft” in various theatres, hopefully providing you with better openings in Europe and Asia.

    Also notice, in a way many of these strats will make the Axis respond to you.  As many of these strategies are gearing the war to the centre of the board through Allied decision making.  Example: if the UK is sending 4 armor per turn from N. Africa towards Persia, both Germany and Japan have to adjust to that.

    I do not think you can ever count on beating Japan, or apply a consistent “one true strategy” to do so,  only Japan can beat Japan.  Hopefully you can limit her options, force some moves, increase the chances for her to make mistakes, employ flexible strats that can create opportuninities and openings, and slow her down enough in order to take care of Germany. If not, than the best way of dealing with Japan would be to go 100% Europe (so much as Japan isn’t threatening America anyway) and hopefully you can take down Germany before Japan swells to an unconquerable monster.

    These strategies also assume NO’s and no tech.  A game with tech would probably require a bit of a different approach



  • Some other things to also note:

    -You may not want to attack the German Fleet on UK1.  You can set up a R2 sub and Fig/Bomb attack in many cases

    -It is entirley possible and reasonable to take Fin on UK2 if you wish UK to have it.  It will not neccasarily hurt you if you plan on sending a pipeline towards Asia through Africa.  It could also have the benefit of keeping Germany/ the Axis in the dark to your plans.



  • @dondoolee:

    Some other things to also note:

    -You may not want to attack the German Fleet on UK1.  You can set up a R2 sub and Fig/Bomb attack in many cases

    -It is entirley possible and reasonable to take Fin on UK2 if you wish UK to have it.  It will not neccasarily hurt you if you plan on sending a pipeline towards Asia through Africa.  It could also have the benefit of keeping Germany/ the Axis in the dark to your plans.

    What does sinking boats in the Atlantic have to do with KJF.  If you’re not going to post about KJF, why are you posting here?

    Your request:  denied.  Hit and run PMing is juvenile.



  • @souL:

    @dondoolee:

    Some other things to also note:

    -You may not want to attack the German Fleet on UK1.  You can set up a R2 sub and Fig/Bomb attack in many cases

    -It is entirley possible and reasonable to take Fin on UK2 if you wish UK to have it.  It will not neccasarily hurt you if you plan on sending a pipeline towards Asia through Africa.  It could also have the benefit of keeping Germany/ the Axis in the dark to your plans.

    What does sinking boats in the Atlantic have to do with KJF.  If you’re not going to post about KJF, why are you posting here?

    Your request:  denied.  Hit and run PMing is juvenile.

    Sinking boats in the Atlantic has to do with the allocation of resources availabale fo the UK, and the turn at to wich the UK can start pumping troops into Africa.  It also shows that the option is flexible.  I also stated in the pevious post that it is a bit decieving; as in it does not show the allies with a joint navy in Noth Africa.

    I was posting the most rational ways that I know of to deal with Japan.  The options listed can lead to a KJF if things go well.  I also stated twice that I do not believe there is a consistant way to apply a KJF strat (or a stall Japan strat fo that matter), which is a key to undestanding the post.  What I offered were things that I felt could lead to a KJF.

    To sum up: even if every option I stated is 100 percent wong, and it is more than OK to citique whatever strat I listed, it is still relevant to the topic, as I stated:

    1. The ways I feel it is most appropriate to deal with Japan.  Even if it is not a direct step by step how to KJF
    2. I believe they can lead to a KJF if things break the Allies way, particularly if the Allied players wish to activley look for/wish to experiment with a KJF
    3. I also believe that what happens in Europe, particulary in regards to how russia is handled is vital to dealing with Japan.  In regards to why I mentioned Finland, evey major option I listed would lead the UK to the middle of the board/ Persia I felt it may cause someone concern about what goes on up in N. Europe (which, I think, is admittadly the weakest aspect of everything I listed).  The natue of the post was also more of a PS, appendix, or after thought post in that I felt it was secondary but relevant.

    Also I do not undestand:  what request by PM did I make?  I just posted this on a public forum.


  • '16 '15 '10

    Lots of worthwhile ideas thanks

    @souL:

    1.  Support your India factory with the Russians.  They have a factory two spaces away and can get troops to Ind before Jpn has a chance to invade.  Combining a few strategies can provide for a pretty safe India.

    Well I’d be worried about Germany/Italy combining resources to pressure Cauc while Japan builds up next to India.  A serious USA Pacific offensive distracting Japan would help alot in this regard.

    3.  Pick off trn when they’re lonely.  Look at how many trn are isolated on a typical J1.  Get creative on ways to destroy them.  Russia can buy a bmb on turn 1, mobilize it in Cau, and hit sz 38 and land in Ind.  sz 61 is vulnerable to American bmb if Fuk or Kwa are still Allied, and if sz 62 can be hit they can land in the safe confines of stc.  One of Japan’s biggest weaknesses is the lack of boots on the mainland, taking out their conveyance slows their expansion.

    K I like this idea will definitely try it.  Will at least make the Japs sweat a little and change up their J1 a bit.

    4.  Get Britain in China.  Britain is the Allied faction that goes after Japan but before America.  Duh, right?  Well that means any territory they liberate in China is .5 inf and there’s no chance for the Japanese to reclaim it.  The more free boots you put into China, the easier it is for you to cut into that NO for the mainland.

    Not sure how to accomplish this one.  I can get Russians in there, but half of these I will need to help India…the other half alone is unlikely to save China.  Meanwhile I can’t see a good Japan player allowing the Russians to reinforce China via Bury/Manch.

    A large China bid would definitely help.



  • Sorry, thought you were someone else for a second there… disregard me being angry, sir!  I understand.

    Anyhow, it does not take a ton of Rus resources to bolster ind, and hopefully GB can reciprocate once they’ve stabilized India.  Also, India is only 2 spaces away from China.  It might be turn 3 or 4 before you’ve realistically got a shot to get to China, but you’d be surprised how little something like Burma means to the Japanese if they need to deal with 7 inf in man on J2, a large American navy build from US1 moving into sz 51/car on J3, and so on.  Also, armor can cut across from per through kaz and into chi without affecting the Soviet bonus.  Remember that if your tank survived from egy :).

    No strategy is perfect and there are ways to protect Cau, but I can’t answer them all for you.  Often you have to wait to see how a game is playing out before you make up your mind on how to answer a strat one way or the other.



  • @souL:

    Sorry, thought you were someone else for a second there… disregard me being angry, sir!  I understand.

    Anyhow, it does not take a ton of Rus resources to bolster ind, and hopefully GB can reciprocate once they’ve stabilized India.  Also, India is only 2 spaces away from China.  It might be turn 3 or 4 before you’ve realistically got a shot to get to China, but you’d be surprised how little something like Burma means to the Japanese if they need to deal with 7 inf in man on J2, a large American navy build from US1 moving into sz 51/car on J3, and so on.  Also, armor can cut across from per through kaz and into chi without affecting the Soviet bonus.  Remember that if your tank survived from egy :).

    No strategy is perfect and there are ways to protect Cau, but I can’t answer them all for you.  Often you have to wait to see how a game is playing out before you make up your mind on how to answer a strat one way or the other.

    No problem, completley disregarded.

    What I wonder is, if Japan ignores the Phil J1 (A move which I consider a usually better move) is an Indian IC viable?



  • @dondoolee:

    What I wonder is, if Japan ignores the Phil J1 (A move which I consider a usually better move) is an Indian IC viable?

    Not unless Russia commits a lot of units to persia/caucasus tanks on R1.



  • Well if they ignore Phi on J1 and you’ve built a Russian bmb on R1 then we know a few things:

    1.  2 jpn trn are in sz 37.  The only units they can transport to Phi are either in Bur or in FIC for some reason.  Any unit coming from Bur didn’t go to Ind.

    2.  Your Russian bmb took out a trn in sz 38.  Nothing is moving from Sum this turn.  That leaves only a brn trn heading for Ind.

    The big question remains:  did the Axis player leave the trn starting in 62 vulnerable to the US bmb?  If he did, it’s likely that either Phi or Ind will fall, but not both.

    So, build your factory in relative peace.  If youv’e committed 3 inf and 1 arm from Russia, that allows for 8 ground forces, an AA gun, and what amounts to essentially an extra bullet shield in the bmb.  If the Egy ftr survived G1, and you know if it did before you do anything at all, you’re in even better shape.  J2’s essentially the only turn that concerns an Indian IC at all.  Find a way to get clear of it, and I promise you that 95/100 times, played right, that factory’s got game balance in its hands.

    If he’s chosen to leave the US with 55+ for two turns in a row, they BETTER be doing something to work against the Japanese.  It’s still salvageable in the Pacific becuase, well, 110 IPCs into the ocean in 2 turns is tough to deal with for any faction, but you better be able to do meaningful damage immediately, because you gave a free factory up in India.

    Only build a factory in India on UK1 if you’re SURE it will hold to UK2.  If you’re not, there’s nothing wrong with putting up a good fight for a territory worth 8 IPCs to the Japanese.  Keep everything on it, pile the Russians into it, and prepare to reinforce it with US planes and Russian inf next turn if it’s there.  The longer it takes Japan to settle into there, the better Russia is for it.



  • @souL:

    Well if they ignore Phi on J1 and you’ve built a Russian bmb on R1 then we know a few things:

    1.  2 jpn trn are in sz 37.  The only units they can transport to Phi are either in Bur or in FIC for some reason.  Any unit coming from Bur didn’t go to Ind.

    2.  Your Russian bmb took out a trn in sz 38.  Nothing is moving from Sum this turn.  That leaves only a brn trn heading for Ind.

    What about the transport that takes borneo on J1?
    The way I look at it, Japan can basically attack India J2 with:

    • 2 inf (sum)  Even if Russia takes out Sum tran

    • 3 ftrs from FIC that attacked china (yun, elsewhere)

    • 2? ftrs on carrier on sz37 after taking out UK dd, tpt in sz35

    • whatever remains from burma battle of 3 inf, art on inf

    {assuming no Philipine attack}

    …so Japan can likely have 4 inf, art, 4-5 ftrs to attack India J2

    The only way India is possible is if Egypt ftr survives, Russia has pushed 2+ inf into Persia R1  or buys some tanks to move there on R2… but  can Russia afford tanks if a bomber is bought?

    and IF the Allies do all that… Japan doesn’t even HAVE to attack it on J2.  They can focus on China or elsewhere J2, take a couple of rounds and bring a superior force on J4, for example.

    Seems to me this Allied option is only really available of Germany buy a navy or all inf.  If they buy 4+ tanks, Russia will need units in Eastern Europe / Caucasus/ Moscow and UK can’t afford not to get an Atlantic navy floating to force a second front.



  • Am I the only one who reckons that the Japanese player can afford to virtually ignore the US Pacific fleet in Rounds 1 and 2? They pose no invasion threat whatsoever - and building in the Pacific delays American input in the Atlantic.

    I’m not arguing that the yanks shouldn’t try to get at the Japs. But I think it is best done via a north African convoy system - keeping Italy in her place while simultaneously forcing the Japanese into a war of attrition in India/Persia/North Africa - which as the advantage (unlike the south Pacific islands) of not being right on her doorstep.

    Think of it like the Solomon Islands campaign - get the Japanese to invest in protecting and invading territory which is beyond the range of any of their meaningful production. Make Godzilla Japan waste IPCs simply projecting her forces.

    A US Pacific buy I think is best on Round 3 maybe - when you have goaded the Japanese navy out of the Pacific entirely, then a sudden American upshot really throws a spanner in the works! At the same time - you have got a UK/US navy getting units into Africa, neutering Italy and providing an every growing threat (throught additional transports and land units from the UK) to France.

    Russia should be fighting for her life in the east - she’ll need plenty of artillery to deadzone her territories and plenty of fighting men to back them up. I honestly believe that a key to a sustainable Russia is to KILL the italian navy. As long as the Russian player cannot leave Caucasus lightly protected for fear of an amphibious assault, Russia will never be free to play the fluid deadzoning defence that she needs to.

    But that is getting off the KJF. In fact - I think in this game the KJF/KGF debate is over. You can’t focus on either because neither dies quickly enough to save the Russians from the other. KILL ITALY.


  • '16 '15 '10

    I don’t understand the rush to capture India (ie landing en masse in Burma J1).  Why is that worth skipping the Philippines and granting the USA an NO?

    That a Russian bomber can hit the East Indies tranny is pretty cool…still as Japan I might go ahead and sacrifice the transport to take it J1 anyway because I want to get that factory up immediately (though perhaps not in a full scale KJF).

    The logic for aiming for a J3 attack on India is that holding down India will cost the United Kingdom and Russia on other fronts…it seems like Japan can afford to build up in that region until the potential exchange is entirely in Japan’s favor…and then eventually claim the free factory.  Meanwhile, Japan can expand at will, securing China and denying the Allies Pacific NOs.  If the Allies put up determined resistance at India, why not wall them off at Burma and wait until the Jap advantage is overwhelming?



  • @Zhukov44:

    I don’t understand the rush to capture India (ie landing en masse in Burma J1).  Why is that worth skipping the Philippines and granting the USA an NO?

    It is not for the pressure alone on India J2 that I prefer Burma.
    It’s for the ability to attack a UK army that is withdrawing (sz34… hello!)
    It’s for the ability to take Australia with 3 transports and a loaded carrier if I want on J2.

    I forgo the $14 swing for positioning.  I figure the territory in the very middle of my empire can be swallowed up easily next round without  problems.  Japan 1 I want to expand my influence as wide as possible because there is no units to opposed that expansion, and if there is, that is a huge effort on the allies part to hold that area.  THEN I can do as you suggest:

    why not wall them off at Burma and wait until the Jap advantage is overwhelming?

    that MAKES the allied commit allot or… w/d.  And to me, that is something the allies CAN NOT afford to do.



  • @Zhukov44:

    I don’t understand the rush to capture India (ie landing en masse in Burma J1).  Why is that worth skipping the Philippines and granting the USA an NO?

    That a Russian bomber can hit the East Indies tranny is pretty cool…still as Japan I might go ahead and sacrifice the transport to take it J1 anyway because I want to get that factory up immediately (though perhaps not in a full scale KJF).

    The logic for aiming for a J3 attack on India is that holding down India will cost the United Kingdom and Russia on other fronts…it seems like Japan can afford to build up in that region until the potential exchange is entirely in Japan’s favor…and then eventually claim the free factory.  Meanwhile, Japan can expand at will, securing China and denying the Allies Pacific NOs.  If the Allies put up determined resistance at India, why not wall them off at Burma and wait until the Jap advantage is overwhelming?

    The NO is not worth the positioning nor the immediate effects in most cases.  Establishing as stong of backbone as possible on the mainland for Japan ought to be objective #1, paticularly in the early phases.

    Plus, if you can guarantee the UK wasting it’s t1 puchas on an IC by making it uselss fo awhile, why not?

    Add that along to everything axis_roll said



  • The American fleet can build trn bb ca, move the dd cv -> sz 56 and sail out to capture 51 on J2.  Ignore that fleet if you want, but it’s going to mess up your islands.  And there’s another fleet is right behind it, ready to kill whatever has survived in SZ 51.

    In fact, if I’m going all-out on Japan, I’m either going to sz 51, sz 59, or sz 46 by US1, no matter what.  It might be sz 46 if he’s sent his bb to sz 62 to support man on J2 (my 7 inf have likely moved into it).

    Now that I’ve made Japan answer threats on J2 and J3, hopefully India’s solidified.  I’ve been mulling around the idea of just building a factory in India anyhow when Japan moves into Bur.  Takes a few extra Russian soldiers and a surviving ftr in India, but it can be held.  If not, whatever takes it SHOULD be sparse, and with how Japan starts even if it falls on J2, there’s likely to be no one to re-take it on J3.



  • @souL:

    Well if they ignore Phi on J1 and you’ve built a Russian bmb on R1 then we know a few things:

    1.  2 jpn trn are in sz 37.  The only units they can transport to Phi are either in Bur or in FIC for some reason.  Any unit coming from Bur didn’t go to Ind.

    2.  Your Russian bmb took out a trn in sz 38.  Nothing is moving from Sum this turn.  That leaves only a brn trn heading for Ind.

    The big question remains:  did the Axis player leave the trn starting in 62 vulnerable to the US bmb?  If he did, it’s likely that either Phi or Ind will fall, but not both.

    So, build your factory in relative peace.  If youv’e committed 3 inf and 1 arm from Russia, that allows for 8 ground forces, an AA gun, and what amounts to essentially an extra bullet shield in the bmb.  If the Egy ftr survived G1, and you know if it did before you do anything at all, you’re in even better shape.  J2’s essentially the only turn that concerns an Indian IC at all.  Find a way to get clear of it, and I promise you that 95/100 times, played right, that factory’s got game balance in its hands.

    If he’s chosen to leave the US with 55+ for two turns in a row, they BETTER be doing something to work against the Japanese.   It’s still salvageable in the Pacific becuase, well, 110 IPCs into the ocean in 2 turns is tough to deal with for any faction, but you better be able to do meaningful damage immediately, because you gave a free factory up in India.

    Only build a factory in India on UK1 if you’re SURE it will hold to UK2.  If you’re not, there’s nothing wrong with putting up a good fight for a territory worth 8 IPCs to the Japanese.  Keep everything on it, pile the Russians into it, and prepare to reinforce it with US planes and Russian inf next turn if it’s there.  The longer it takes Japan to settle into there, the better Russia is for it.

    1. that is simply countered by putting 1 jap car in Jap territory.
    2. If I thought the Indian IC was remotly viable it may be a habit to even skip yunnan T1 leaving the very plausible fact that India can be hit with 8 inf, 1 art, 4 Fig, and up to two bombads by Japan by J2.  It is impossible to underestimate how much Japan does not want a viable UK Indian IC, how much Japan wants to obliterate the UK Asian/Pacific troops, and how valuable South Asia is to Japan.  If you wish to have to commit THAT many russians, I would welcome that, and expect Gemany to be in moscow faily quickly

    You can build up a navy in the US, but it won’t be effective to relieve what UK foces remain in India.  It can keep Austalia, NZ, and Hawaii alive a few extra turns but, that is a sacrifice I would make any day of the week .Any trannies that can be built or put in play by Japan can all be protected without much consequence on J1; meaning that you can fool Japan once or twice when employing an unfamiliar bomber strat, but that is it.

    If you wish to have a Japanese heavy strat, I think it is much easier, safer, flexible, cost effective, and stronger to withdraw to Persia  (Where Japan has to worry about russia without russia even having to commit units)and take UK built troops and pump them though N. Africa with a united Allied fleet as their protection; a move that strongly effects Germany, Italy, and Japan all at the same time.  Besides that, you would have 6-8 (half of which is probably armor) units heading to Asia instead of 3 with the Indian IC.



  • A turn 1 US pacific buy simply keeps the Japanese Navy in the Pacific. A good Japanese attack round 1 is one that will leave all units out of range of immediate counter attack. Then J2 consolidate the Japanese navy - and you’ll have enough cash to pop some stuff in that factory you bought round 1.

    I’m happy to take the Phillipines round 1. If I want to do that and take India later then I probably will. The UK can put units in India (at least they’re not in europe), and the US can put boats in the Pacific and the Japanese can keep pace with both. You definitely won’t invade Japan before Germany has beaten Russia, and who exactly is going to save Africa from the Italians?

    I believe that you need to have decisive force as early as possible. Building up the US till it has decisive force against multiple Japanese carriers, a battleship, cruiser, and any other cheap cannon fodder units the Japanese add to their navy will take far too long. (round 2 you have maybe 45 IPCs = land units for rnd 1 factory, extra factory and a couple of naval units, rnd 3 50 IPCs maybe = land units for 2 factories and whatever navy to keep US at bay).

    Either way. This can continue until the US realises that without its help - Europe has been lost - and the Japanese are (maybe) worried about their navy - but with Russia gone - not really.



  • With US going all out for the Pacific, how should Germany and Italy respond?  I think that even with the US spending all out for boats and planes that Japan can gather up a large amount of IPCs quickly enough to stay ahead in the boat race and pressure Russia through China fairly effectively.

    I’m thinking a strong offensive that keeps Russian forces from responding to the Japanese in the backyard the best route for the Axis.

    Any other thoughts?  Work Africa aggressively to Gain the UK IPCs?  Focus on Russia?


  • '16 '15 '10

    @bongaroo:

    Any other thoughts?  Work Africa aggressively to Gain the UK IPCs?  Focus on Russia?

    Both of those would work well I think.  It also depends whether Russia is diverting troops to Asia to try to stifle Japan’s economic growth–in that case maybe a tank rush is in order.



  • My impression is that Kill Japan First is not efficient compared to Kill Germany First. A strong Japan, in the medium-term, is simply the cost of doing business when it comes to defeating the Axis in the long-term. It’s an atypical situation that would pragmatically call for Kill Japan First.

    Part of the reason is the unit setup at the start of the game. America can more cheaply and more quickly start pumping units into Europe and Africa than it can into Asia, since in the Atlantic, she’s unlikely to find significant opposition beyond the first turn or two. The extra turns and cost involved in building up a force that can take on the Japanese navy and air force (with some prospect of coming out on top) is a cost not required to take on the Germans and Italians, who have the further handicap of split navies instead of the united Imperial Japanese Navy. Japan might end up with Asia, while you hope to end up with Germany and Italy. Another factor here is the distance involved. America traveling to Asia takes twice as long as traveling to Africa and Europe.

    It’s unfortunate that a more balanced approach isn’t practical. It sure would be fun to see significant U.S./Japanese interaction all throughout the game.


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