• '20 '18 '16 '13 '12

    Will the Maginot line feature into the new game? Or will Germany be able to attack across the French border freely?

    If I recall correctly it was not included in AAE original but I understand this game to be far more complex than its predecessor. There has been talk about fortresses or “blockhouses” butressing defence but what about the possibility of a stationary “drawn in” feature, like the burma road of AA40P, preventing attack or at least strongly discouraging attack?

    Thoughts?


  • This game need a blockhouse unit that defend on 4 or less, have no attack value, no movement and cost 6 IPC. And is placed on a border. We will never get this unit.

    Some of the big counter and hex games have Maginot Line drawn on the map, and when attacking all combat values are halfed. This rule will be difficult to use in A&A as long as infantry attack on 1.


  • This game need a blockhouse unit that defend on 4 or less, have no attack value, no movement and cost 6 IPC. And is placed on a border.

    So Aldertag, it sounds like you liked my idea?


  • @Canuck12:

    Will the Maginot line feature into the new game? Or will Germany be able to attack across the French border freely?

    it seems to me that the Maginot line was in the historical war and Geramany was still able to attack across the border freely.  They simply went around it.
    Sorry, just joking there.  😉

    I think it could be something drawn in to start with certainly and affect values.  When Patton’s army moved to go back across the Rhine they ran into some of the defenses and it did hurt their advance.  There could just be several spots picked out on the game that has drawn in historical fortifications, and the need for the blockhouse piece could disappear, but the variables of building fortifications could also be an interesting new thread to weave into the game.

    a 0-4-0-6 piece without any pairing ability does seem like half a tank.  I think it would need more, even if the cost goes up.


  • world war II taught alot of important lessons
    The importance of air power, specificly strategic air power
    The weakness of the big ships like battleships
    The importance of oil, and mechinization

    And in 1940, the important lesson in France was “Static defenses arent worth their weight in cement”

    Static defenses cant be moved, and can therfore be bombed, relentlessley. They cant be moved, so they can be bypassed, they cant advance with the rest of the army, or retreat.

    The Maginot line tought us alot of those things, the bulk of the French army was cut off from retreating to Paris as the Germans bypassed it.

    A blockhouse unit is just stupid in a game of this scale, D-day, understandable….but the defense of coasts and boarders is left to the grunts, and buying some extra guys is just as effective as any blockhouse unit is going to be.

    If you MUST, and I mean absoloutely MUST…“Artilery have first strike when defending a territory from amphibious invasions” Its quick, its simple, its factual, and with the Mech-Infantry, gives artilery a purpose again.


  • but if blockhouse elimate territory trading of france and karelia, then they add historical accuarcy and strategy to the game and so are not stupid at at all.


  • stupid is such a strong word,


  • we got to play the game were given
    territory trading is part of the game, you cant take half a territory, or hold out in some portions, its all or nothing, win or lose, trading is part of the game

    blockhouses are for people who are too quick to pull their men from the defensive lines for the fools errand in russia. Example> A&A Europe: you start with contingents of germans in france, but as the game wears on you are more and more tempted to take men away and send to the east, and if you would just leave them there then the defense would stay strong, or re-enforce it in due time.

    Block houses are for players who cant avoid the temptation to move men from france to east poland…there i said it. The secret is out everyone.


  • The fact that defending infantry get to defend with a 2 vs. attacking inf rolling 1s sums it up nicely.  (Fortifications CAN work if you roll well too.)


  • @oztea:

    And in 1940, the important lesson in France was “Static defenses arent worth their weight in cement”

    Static defenses cant be moved, and can therfore be bombed, relentlessley. They cant be moved, so they can be bypassed, they cant advance with the rest of the army, or retreat.

    The Maginot line tought us alot of those things, the bulk of the French army was cut off from retreating to Paris as the Germans bypassed it.

    Not sure I agree with you completely here. The purpose of the Maginot Line was that the Germans would probably consider it too costly to go through it, and therefore they would go through BeNeLux instead. Knowing this, the French could meet the Jerries head on in the BeNeLux, with strong forces. The Ardennes was considered a defensive line in itself, being between the main French forces and the Maginot Line.

    This was the French strategy. It proved useless in the end because the German forces outclassed the French. But the purpose of Maginot was not to stop a German invasion per se, but to funnel the German attack through Belgium instead.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    exactly. It diverted the attack to where it was not built so the french would only have to defend a smaller line if the Germans tried to cross.

    The Siegfried line was breached.

    In both cases it poses a potential disaster for the attackers if you roll well.

    But to just make it a 4 or less on one roll makes no sence at all because it just becomes another unit and not a real defensive structure.

    2 or less for each entrenched infantry and artillery allows it to be as strong as you have units behind it hiding in its encasement’s and various turrets working the guns.


  • 2 or less for each entrenched infantry and artillery

    I must be misunderstanding you as these pieces already defend at 2


  • Guns serve no purpose without men behind them and men in front of them……

    The maginot line had to be manned, and the germans had to attack it for it to work therefore it was a waste of men and matereal.

    the germans blitzed through the ardennes, a feat unexpected at the time, entraping the cream of the french and british armies.

    Speed wins the day, another lesson from 1940


  • Speed wins the day, another lesson from 1940

    “It’s better to have a good plan today than a perfect plan tomorrow”  - Patton

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I must be misunderstanding you as these pieces already defend at 2

    Thats not how my idea works.

    Enemy shore shots go first, loses removed

    It rolls a 2 or less die for each unit INF and ART defending with it, attacking land units that are hit are removed

    Then all attacking units roll

    Then all remaining defending units fire

    loses removed.

    all other rounds are normal air is unaffected by hits by blockhouse.

    cost is 5 IPC per level on level 1 the blockhouse rolls 1, on level two it rolls 2 or less.

    thats it.

  • Customizer

    what exactly is the problem with trading a territory?

    IL talks about such things as France getting traded 20 times in a game, but that is rarely the case.  If the germans are stupid enough to leave it undefended, the UK might take it the first or second round, but after that, France never gets traded more than a couple times.  This is because in revised, 1942 and AA50, France is one big territory, so there is No Other way to simulate the give and take of advancing and retreating Within france.

    There are 2 much much better ways to eliminate trading:

    Bigger Map:

    • This splits up the territory into smaller ones, that can better simulate the give and take of the real war.
    • This makes each territory worth fewer IPCs, lessing the incentive to lose a unit or two just to get +2 ipc gain (as opposed to a +11 ipc gain).

    No more National Objectives:

    • This removes the incentive to trade, almost completely.

    More units for the sake of more units does not make the gameplay better.  If we are adding this blockhouse unit, I can think of at least about 10 more units we can add, each of which would increase the “historical” realism of the game, but in reality would just make this game into more of an extremely complex rock-paper-scissor simulator.  KISS


  • I am for the bigger map with more territories.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    My ideas have nothing to do with “historical” fixes to AA. I am talking about making more choices for players to find a counter to strategies that allow for this type of thing because the RULES ALLOW IT, EVEN IF THEY SHOULD NOT. I am appealing to shorten the game and cut out all these misfit raids where double and triple income collection over the same piece of real estate occurs and bogs the game in silly battles. I want a real invasion where once it occurs its huge because likely, it will succeed and the enemy will have no counter and the game will end sooner. The extra pieces bought because of double collection lead to more pieces, which means more battles need to be resolved.

    This is a game about 1940, when the french had a Maginot line which must have some rule to account for it, while the Germans have a Siegfried line, where Singapore and Sevastopol are fortresses. Its not for the sake of historical realism, but it is for the sake of making a game that has some connection with the events its said to represent.


  • @Imperious:

    This is a game about 1940, when the french had a Maginot line which must have some rule to account for it, while the Germans have a Siegfried line, where Singapore and Sevastopol are fortresses. Its not for the sake of historical realism, but it is for the sake of making a game that has some connection with the events its said to represent.

    I agree, A&A isnt a simulation, but if it dosnt have a blockhouse peice it has less connection to the accual events


  • Is Larry still considering the blockhouse piece?


  • The last post I saw from Larry on his sight blockhouse is out. Could be a cost thing come down from the powers that be. IL is willing to go toe to toe all 15 rounds so it could happen (very thin chance). If the blockhouse piece doesn’t make it maybe just a control marker type disc could be adopted for the global game rules to keep cost down. I would be ok with that. Keep up the fight!


  • Well maybe he could have an otional rules section. We wont need the pieces since we can get them from FMG.


  • I can’t see the chimps allowing Larry to make official rules for other companies (they consider competition) to make such a thing. Just look what they did to triple A. Maybe they will put out some kind of expansion pack of there own later (doubtful). It would be cool to have official LH rules and new sculpts like heavy tanks and tech upgraded units etc. It would also be cool to include some logistic stuff like tankers, oil rigs, and merchant ships to protect. The new map for AA40 could be a corner stone for the future. The chimps should take advantage of it and produce their own expansion sets for AA40 as they do for their other games. If they don’t be assured someone will, but it won’t be endorsed by LH.

    FMG is already working on new sculpts for AA games, but now with AA40 just around the corner they should IMO (unfortunately) 😞 delay it so they can bring in more units that a larger map will allow for. Of coarse such a project takes a long time so FMG’s time table may fit this anyway as I have not followed their progress closely.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yea thats true FMG will put a rocket up the chimps and get them moving because they now have competition.


  • The only reaction that we will likely see out of those chimps is them trying to shut down FMG

Suggested Topics

  • 10
  • 37
  • 5
  • 55
  • 10
  • 46
  • 3
  • 7
I Will Never Grow Up Games
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures
Dean's Army Guys

22
Online

16.2k
Users

37.9k
Topics

1.6m
Posts