Pacific Theater


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Just curious, anyone ever consider ignoring China with Japan?  I mean, just go around it!

    Sure, you’ll lose the NO for China probably, but would you make up for it with the retention of units you would have lost attacking and slugging your way though China?

    Perhaps an IC in Manchuria and Sumatra and then run north over China and south under China?



  • Yes, I’ve tried this.  Overall, I wouldn’t recommend it.

    Besides the loss in IPC over the course of several turns, the main reason I wouldn’t advocate this strategy is because it allows Russia to more easily defend against possible Japanese attacks.  Russia will have more flexibility to pile troops into territories like Persia since it never has to worry about an attack through China.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Hmm.  yea, that is an interesting opportunity cost.  I was thinking Russia would still be split because they have to defend against Japan in Persia, Urals/Novosibirsk and against Germany in Belarus, East Ukraine, Ukraine, Karelia with a potential threat from Italy in Caucasus.

    But if Japan goes through China, it slogs them down making it harder to get to Russia and you lose a lot of equipment if the Allies fight you. (could get lucky round 1 and make it easier, but I wouldn’t really count on it.)



  • If you don’t attack China, you’ll eventually will end up to have to defend Manchuria, Kiangsu and Kwantug. By turn 3, China will have 10 inf and 1 fighter if left alone to hit on theses 6 ipc ( on top of the 5-6 ipcs you don’t take from China.)

    But that’s not the real danger, China infantry can be beefed up by allies planes and they could be used to screen an allies attack force. It gets even worse if a russian AA gun makes it way down there as well.

    The point is, you will eventually have troops bogged down anyways by or because of China even if it’s left alone or risk losing your foothold in mainland Asia.



  • Going through China is the perfect drain for Russia (almost better than the German front). Russia has to send forces to defend against Japan (meaning they are not going against Germany) and there are many spaces in China to defend so Russia can never go too deep into China. Russia (or the Allies) do not earn income in China so they gain nothing by fighting there.

    No where else on the map is the combat more if a total loss for Russia than in China.


  • Customizer

    It might be a thought.  If you completely ignore China (and by that I mean you evacuate it asap), you can afford ICs in India (which falls turn 2), and Burma, and possibly even FIC (though you may not have the money to support it).  In the mean time, you are sending up to 8 infantry from Japan’s island to Soviet Far East.  Basically, Russia will get hit harder and get hit sooner, but if they can weather the storm it will quickly run dry, because Japan will have fewer troops flowing there over the long term if they lack the 13 IPCs of China and the 5 IPCs from the China NO (18 ipcs is a lot, though they do make it up with some ipcs elsewhere, quicker ipc gains against russia and UK).
    The big problem with this strategy, is what the heck do you do with your troops in Kiangsu and Manchuria on the first turn.  If you attack Buryatia, that means you do not have enough troups to take any of the money islands.  If you take the money islands instead (or send everyone to Burma and ignore both russia and money island), Then what is there to do with your 6 guys in Manchuria and Kiangsu?  I guess they could just sit tight and defend for a round, or you could stack them in Manchuria and push Burya turn 2 (you also can’t do anything with 3 of your fighters).
    If done correctly, Japan can have 34 IPCs plus 10 from India and Islands (44ipcs) at the End of Turn 2.  They would have 7inf 1 art In Buryatia, and 6inf 1art in India, as well as owning East Indies, Borneo, Philippines, and New Guinea (need it cus you will never get Kwangtung).  You will also have 2-3 inf sitting on those islands that you can move off later, plus whatever you built, either IC or more transports.  At the end of Turn 3, you can finish with 45 IPCs (which will drop to 44 if you don’t take Caucasus turn 4, but will go up to 48 if you do), and have 3 ICs in each of India, Burma, and FIC, as well as around 4inf 1art 1tank in Persia, and 10 inf 2 art in Soviet Far East / Stanoj, and also 4 in on Japan Island, 3 inf 4 tanks in India/Burma/FIC.  I’d say thats pretty killer.



  • @Cmdr:

    Hmm.  yea, that is an interesting opportunity cost.  I was thinking Russia would still be split because they have to defend against Japan in Persia, Urals/Novosibirsk and against Germany in Belarus, East Ukraine, Ukraine, Karelia with a potential threat from Italy in Caucasus.

    But if Japan goes through China, it slogs them down making it harder to get to Russia and you lose a lot of equipment if the Allies fight you. (could get lucky round 1 and make it easier, but I wouldn’t really count on it.)

    I’ve found that attacking Russia from the northern route is not that practical.  That route is useful for applying some pressure, but ultimately, the routes through China and India are much easier to sustain.

    In games that I play, Russia is usually not hard pressed to defend against both Germany and Japan.  If the Allies attack Europe in force, then pressure on the eastern front is greatly reduced.  If USA concentrates on the Pacific, then Japan is not seriously threatening Russia until a few turns later than normal.

    Finally, Japan can march through China with little effort.  It’s not uncommon to wipe out the entire Chinese army on turn 1 and leave them with only 3 territories and a single infantry after round 1 is complete.


  • 2007 AAR League

    At first I found this an intriguing prospect, but China Proper is 12 IPC plus 5 NO.  One of Japan’s greatest assets is that they can quickly ramp up to 50+ IPC. Ignore China and that won’t happen.

    Plus it takes away one of the approach axis that Russia has to defend against.



  • Another things I just thought of. If China is ignored for a while, it provides safe haven for Russian units or Allied aircraft to land in Chinese territories and mount attacks (or threaten to attack) in spaces they would not normally be able to use.

    China is not like sending forces to Australia (where once they land it takes a while to get back to the front). The forces roll on and take ground (making it a worthy endevour in my opinion).

    Do China!



  • @Octopus:

    Another things I just thought of. If China is ignored for a while, it provides safe haven for Russian units or Allied aircraft to land in Chinese territories and mount attacks (or threaten to attack) in spaces they would not normally be able to use.

    China is not like sending forces to Australia (where once they land it takes a while to get back to the front). The forces roll on and take ground (making it a worthy endevour in my opinion).

    Do China!

    Why did I not tought of that…?

    @Corbeau:

    But that’s not the real danger, China infantry can be beefed up by allies planes and they could be used to screen an allies attack force. It gets even worse if a russian AA gun makes it way down there as well.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’m not overly worried about allied planes in China.  If they are in China, they are not attacking Germany or Italy.

    However, I do think an amendment is in order, perhaps Japan should attack China on round 1 (to knock down the defenders, you can almost get every Chinese unit on Round 1 if you set it up right) then ignore them from that point on.

    IC’s in Sumatra and India can handle the southern front while Japan feeds the northern front.  That’s 15 ground units a round (45-75 IPC a round) and remember, China is kinda stuck, they cannot leave China (except to reclaim Hong Kong, big whoop) and they’ll only have infantry to do it with.

    Meanwhile, i am not seeing a huge contingent of red army in China because they are focusing on defending Caucasus/Kazakh and Novosibirsk/Urals from Japan while Germany threatens Belarus, East Ukriane, Ukraine and Karelia and Italy threatens Ukraine and Caucasus.



  • @Cmdr:

    I’m not overly worried about allied planes in China.  If they are in China, they are not attacking Germany or Italy.

    However, I do think an amendment is in order, perhaps Japan should attack China on round 1 (to knock down the defenders, you can almost get every Chinese unit on Round 1 if you set it up right) then ignore them from that point on.

    IC’s in Sumatra and India can handle the southern front while Japan feeds the northern front.  That’s 15 ground units a round (45-75 IPC a round) and remember, China is kinda stuck, they cannot leave China (except to reclaim Hong Kong, big whoop) and they’ll only have infantry to do it with.

    Meanwhile, i am not seeing a huge contingent of red army in China because they are focusing on defending Caucasus/Kazakh and Novosibirsk/Urals from Japan while Germany threatens Belarus, East Ukriane, Ukraine and Karelia and Italy threatens Ukraine and Caucasus.

    If you choose to wipe out all Chinese defenders on turn 1, then there’s not much resistance from continuing the offensive to control all of China outright.

    A northern approach to Moscow is quite time consuming, especially if troops are debarking from Japan.  It might also be easier for the US to disrupt this approach, than a route through China or India.

    I would only try an ignore China strategy if Germany employs an all out aggressive move toward Moscow.  The idea is to try to bring as many troops to bear against Russia as soon as possible.  The Axis would probably have one shot for a knock out blow.  If that fails, then it’s probably game over since they would be hard pressed to recover mid-game.


  • 2018 2017 '16 '11 Moderator

    Russia routinely has units in China.  If you go the northern route (same distance as through China) you force Russia to defend up north. Now, if you couple that with an attack through India (with reinforcements from Sumatra) you divide the Russians by a great distance.  They cannot send armor from Caucasus to Chihang to stop you, they have to send them out to Yakut and that takes more than a single turn.

    Meanwhile, the only thing in China is perhaps an infantryman that you can kill with an 11 IPC investment (2 infantry, 1 armor).



  • Strat? What strat? Just abbuse from game’s bugs and zero playtesting at China and toast them J1 (1941) and J3/J4 (1942)

    Larry should make a fix for whole China stuff instead of nerfing Improved Industry tech. If it works (that tech), don’t touch it. If it’s screaming for a fix (China), fix it


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