Subs question

Thanks Gallo Rojo and Critmoster! (+1 for both of you! :-D)

I think that all is related on how much complicated the battle resolution is.

The actual combat resolution is more abstract and simplified. I like the sub rules of anniversary more than the rules of revised even if I would like to have some other modification. And I agree with you that some aspect seems strange when related to other units behaviour.

Your ideas are also interesting, they may be realized using a different approach to combat resolution allowing specific targeting of the enemy units or selection of the opponent casualties on particular result of the dice rolled.
I think there are house rules that allows that.

I agree that the sub rules are much improved.
The difference makes them more useful when operating independently, which makes them more historical in their in-game usage.

I also agree that A&A uses a degree of abstraction during battle that lends itself favorably to playability and have no desire to complicate it.
Other games allow targeted casualties and they are fun, but A&A should remain, well, A&A!
I tend to avoid house rules with my group, the only one I have put forward is starting the game with China and ending the round with USA, we are going to try this next game.

Found an interesting article

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq39-1.htm#anchor521073

Seems USA lost more subs than I tought due to air planes attack and many cases does not involves a destroyer…

So, I really don’t see either why you could not take subs as casualties.

the sub debate has gone all the way back to classic, and still has not been resolved.  i have the OOB rules from aa50 and it states "whenever a round of combat starts and a sub is in combat with only aircraft, it CAN submerge ( before aircraft fire).
it states CAN submerge,  which to me gives the defender the choice.  it does not state it must submerge.  now we have these updated rules all over the place.  which change the OOB rules.  :?

@Corbeau:

Found an interesting article

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq39-1.htm#anchor521073

Seems USA lost more subs than I tought due to air planes attack and many cases does not involves a destroyer…

So, I really don’t see either why you could not take subs as casualties.

I believe Americans used Sonar Bouy’s dropped by bombers to locate submarines and sent fighters in to sink them, thus, negating the need for floating sonar platforms (aka destroyers.)

I could be wrong.  WWII history is not my strong point!

Subs being sunk by aircraft only happened in the war, especially in the Bay of Biscay when the German subs were transferring to the Central Atlantic, but given the scale of the game it’s good that it’s omitted. We also see shore batteries and mines sinking subs on the link posted, but that’s not in the game? Bringing a DD is easy to do and it introduces more strategy in the game and builds matching the opponent, works very well.

Only thing I’d like to change is 1) subs move being blocked by DDs (since this pretty much kills German sub builds in Baltic) 2) subs not being able to block movement of unescorted transports. After that, subs are perfect!  :wink:

@Lynxes:

Subs being sunk by aircraft only happened in the war, especially in the Bay of Biscay when the German subs were transferring to the Central Atlantic, but given the scale of the game it’s good that it’s omitted. We also see shore batteries and mines sinking subs on the link posted, but that’s not in the game? Bringing a DD is easy to do and it introduces more strategy in the game and builds matching the opponent, works very well.

Only thing I’d like to change is 1) subs move being blocked by DDs (since this pretty much kills German sub builds in Baltic) 2) subs not being able to block movement of unescorted transports. After that, subs are perfect!  :wink:

I agree on both ideas.

And I suggest two more: 3) BB and AC not able to hit the subs; 4) SUBs defending at 2.
Maybe too much?  :-D

hey 1 more question.  if a sub attacks an AC + 2 fig,  the figs will not be able to defend, only the AC, correct.  but if  defender has a dd the figs would be able to defend.  correct?

Yes, the DD cancel the sub ability Cannot Be Hit by Air Units and so the defending fighters may hit the attacking sub.

Yea so if you catch an AC out at sea with out a DD you may get the ftrs too if they can’t land within 1 space.