Simple question: is the game balanced?

thing is you will never win a game vs a decent opponent with a India IC in AA40 unless there was wacky dices somewhere. Its just not possible in this game. Ofc there is several instances where dices will make it profitable and maybe optimal to place an IC there, but thats not the issue if Germany not attack Egypt T1(they still have to shuffle units to africa though). A horrible failed Egypt T1 attack by germany might be a situation where it will be profitable, or even more so if japanese fails z35 turn1.

Thats whats so dynamic about this game, there is no standard response that will allways work for the allies, they have to adopt to where the dices was whacky turn one by the axis attacks, or respond to a conservative T1 by the axis.

@Pin:

thing is you will never win a game vs a decent opponent with a India IC in AA40 unless there was wacky dices somewhere.

You can in 1942 scenario. Of course, not in 1941 one

my bad was only referring to AA50 -41 with NOs, only version i played and analyzed a lot.

@Pin:

thing is you will never win a game vs a decent opponent with a India IC in AA40 unless there was wacky dices somewhere. Its just not possible in this game. Ofc there is several instances where dices will make it profitable and maybe optimal to place an IC there, but thats not the issue if Germany not attack Egypt T1(they still have to shuffle units to africa though). A horrible failed Egypt T1 attack by germany might be a situation where it will be profitable, or even more so if japanese fails z35 turn1.

Thats whats so dynamic about this game, there is no standard response that will allways work for the allies, they have to adopt to where the dices was whacky turn one by the axis attacks, or respond to a conservative T1 by the axis.

I agree completly, I thought we were talking about a completly botched attempt at Egypt though (which while uncommon is still a big enough probablity to consider and adjust for).  Things that I think are very clear to recognize about an Indian IC/ or attacking India in general regardless: 1) Japan can take India T2, no matter what (disregarding preposterous game breaking luck) 2)Japan can quickly run into a supply/re-enforcment problem with India if the British can make a decent counter attack on it.  Japan has to be very cautious with India if Britain has grouped all it’s units in Persia (with maybe a little USSR help and the UK bomber) and Japan can’t wipe the British out T2.  To me this is a very key, and somewhat luck driven (due to what happens in Egypt/maybe how lucky the USSR was in T1) part of the game.

Yes if you build an IC in India T1-T3 for the UK in 90% of the games it is a game breakingly bad move; but there is certainly a time and place to consider one that people should note that ,while uncommon, isn’t so crazy rare that it is a virtual impossability.

I realize this game is only about weather the german tank blitz can be stopped(on russia).
Keys for allied success #1….the russians must never let the Italians  clear a way for G tanks to move in to moscow.#2…British and American forces must build navy and transports,send aircraft if nessasary to russia,america must pull out of the pacific and maybe an IC in NOR fin.#3 …russia conglomerate inf in Bury and reinforce india with 2 infintry…British and american forces must save russia and bring down germany ,gaining more $$$ from germany/italy then what the allies lose from japanesse gains…I welcome any feedback.

Actually best way to make an indian IC work is not Russian INF, but russian armor.  You have two neat options with this, you can buy a bomber to take down the Indies trannie and move 2 inf into persia, and/or buy 3 armor plus the starting one and leave them on cauc.  Then on UK turn you either A) build indian IC with russian armor showing up on R2, or buy bombers as the russians can ensure you take trans-jordan for a UK2 Italian fleet strike.  The real fun with the russian armor in india is two-fold.  1) UK can can opener on UK2 into berma to allow russian armor to hit fic if underdefended.  2) armor can pull back on R2 once US/UK figs land in india, or another fun buy is 2 AC with Indian IC landing US figs on them, granting those figs a HUGE strike range as UK can move 'em 2 spaces and US can then move them 4 on her turn.  Also, it is unlikely japan can sink 2 loaded carriers AND assault India on J3, even if the russian armor runs away.  Just a bunch of theory craft though  :evil:.

@bugoo:

Actually best way to make an indian IC work is not Russian INF, but russian armor.  You have two neat options with this, you can buy a bomber to take down the Indies trannie and move 2 inf into persia, and/or buy 3 armor plus the starting one and leave them on cauc.  Then on UK turn you either A) build indian IC with russian armor showing up on R2, or buy bombers as the russians can ensure you take trans-jordan for a UK2 Italian fleet strike.  The real fun with the russian armor in india is two-fold.  1) UK can can opener on UK2 into berma to allow russian armor to hit fic if underdefended.  2) armor can pull back on R2 once US/UK figs land in india, or another fun buy is 2 AC with Indian IC landing US figs on them, granting those figs a HUGE strike range as UK can move 'em 2 spaces and US can then move them 4 on her turn.  Also, it is unlikely japan can sink 2 loaded carriers AND assault India on J3, even if the russian armor runs away.  Just a bunch of theory craft though  :evil:.

……And Hitler goose steps in the open backdoor…

Well, I’m not saying India IC is a simple thing, there are a lot of ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’ such as:

1. Can UK escape with all of their Egypt force? Italian invasion of TRJ has 1 inf, 1 arm+shore bombard and shouldn’t be enough. Then you have 2 inf, 1 art as well as the armor and fighter in India turn 3.
2. Does Japan stack up for a turn 2 all-out assault? If so, does Russia have the forces to spare for bolstering India against that attack? This usually can be possible if Caucasus isn’t too threatened and UK can help out invading Karelia. A heavy German push vs. Caucasus can of course make it impossible to help India, but skilled Russian play can often block or break down such an advance.
3. If you do lose India turn 2, can you take it back and if so does Japan have enough in their second wave? Typically you withdraw most troops to Persia and move into India after that. Holding India after that depends on if Japan sends troops to China and Siberia or if they forgo those theaters and move all they got at India (and if you can’t hold, of course, it might be better to play defensively in Persia and Caucasus).
4. Can you transfer air force to India? UK figs and bomber via Russia, US figs via Australia. This only happens if you survive turn 2 assault by Japan or if you later get a strong India.
5. Can you by an US naval offensive hinder the deployment of all of Japan’s air force at India? This especially counts if there’s a drawn-out stackfest around India or if Japan builds ICs in East Indies, then a US naval offensive is vital.

All in all, SAF IC is a better choice in most games but sometimes India IC is viable and a German passive strategy in Africa on turn 1 can increase the chance of India IC being viable. If successful, an Indian IC can block Japan from a quick strike at Caucasus and be a real pain in the XXX for the Axis.

PS. The Dardenelles optional rule by the way, should increase chances of Indian IC since Italy can’t invade Caucasus. I haven’t played more than one game with this rule since most people want to play OOB, but I must say it really makes sense to me. DS.

Any money spent my the UK in Egypt/South Africa/India is money not spent landing in France/Poland.  If I was the Japan, no matter what my strategy was, or how badly my luck failed me, and I saw an IC in india, I would make it priority number 1, to the exclusion of even China and russia and usa.  You can be sure it will fall within a couple turns of it being built.

Anyway, we are rather off topic……

With my friends, we play with Dardanelles closed and I gotta say that this limit Italy alot and gives Russia the opportunity to counter attack without fearing the Italian troops. Yes, the Italians can still clear a path, but it’s much harder with their ground troops (Italy have little tanks, and little infantry)

With Dardanelles closed, the Allies certainly see their chance of winning increase.

That said, with or without the Dardanelles closed, I believe this game to be fair for both side. I’ll give a slight advantage to the Axis simply because of their strong start.

Right now, we just discovered 42. We feel it is more balanced than 41 (for some reason, and maybe it is really more balanced).
Personally, I’d say this : If you want to balance (if it isn’t) 41, just remove some Japanese transports (I don’t believe in the “add some Chinese units”). 42 shows how Japan is weaker in the first few turns because it lacks transports. Like force them to take 1-2 more turn in order to take the free 8 ipcs in East Indies/Borne or something, or prevent them from sending that many ground forces in their first turn. From there, you will see how it limits Japan’s capabilities.

Robert