Question about submarine Aircraft carrrier battle

  • '17 '16

    it adds a layer of complexity to the choosing of casualties

    I’m not sure that it “adds” a layer, I rather say change a layer for another.
    Because the actual planes need DDs to hit subs creates a layer of complexity when choosing casualties.
    You must cautiously roll planes separatly.
    You have to watch if there is still a DD with the plane, and if not, you must check if there is other elligible casualty.

    Don’t you have to often answer many questions on that matter?

    I think that both rules on planes limitations vs subs have almost the same level of complexity.
    Maybe I’m wrong on this.

    But I believe that introducing somekind of Subs casualties by plane without the need of destroyers would better depict the WWII naval combat but, in addition, allows much more tactical situations in the game (because Subs will kept their First Strike shots: simply sometimes players will use more planes than DDs against Subs).

  • '17 '16

    @Krieghund:

    @Baron:

    Finally, is there any single post or thread which contains a summary of all Subs rules of the different A&A games?

    Not that I’m aware of.

    Am I right about all this?
    Classic:
    1st ed.: A2D2M2C8, Surprise Strike, cannot submerge, cannot hit air.
    2nd Ed. A2D2M2C8, Surprise Strike, cannot submerge but can withdraw in another SZ, cannot hit air.
    3rd Ed. A2D2M2C8, Surprise Strike, can submerge in SZ at the end of the round, cannot hit air.

    Iron Blitz, A&A 3rd Ed.:
    Sub: A2D2M2C8, Surprise Strike, can submerge in SZ at the end of the round, cannot hit air.
    Destroyer: A2D2M2C8 can retaliate even when hit by subs surprise strike and cancel Subs submerge.

    Pacific and Europe Edition:
    Sub: A2D2M2C8, First Strike on attack only, can submerge at the end of the round, cannot hit air, cannot be hit by air.
    Destroyer: A3D3M2C12, cancel First Strike, Submerge and allows planes to hit subs.

    Revised Edition:
    Sub: A2D2M2C8, First Strike, can submerge at the end of the round, cannot hit air.
    Destroyer: A3D3M2C12, cancel First Strike and Submerge.

    Anniversary Edition, AA50:
    Sub: A2D1M2C6, First Strike, can submerge in First Strike phase before regular cmbt, cannot hit air, cannot be hit by air.
    Destroyer: A2D2M2C8, cancel First Strike, Submerge (Submersible) and allows all planes to hit subs.

    1942.1 and 1942.2: Same as AA50.

    Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940, 1st and 2nd Ed..: same as AA50.

  • Official Q&A

    @Baron:

    I thought so because you seems always to be there when anybody need an answer or a confirmation about rules.
    It is not a part of your job from WotC or else?

    Nope.

    @Baron:

    If it is a kind of benevolent or pro bono activities, then you clearly deserve at least this badge and much more thanks.

    You’re welcome.

    @Baron:

    I’m not sure that it “adds” a layer, I rather say change a layer for another.
    Because the actual planes need DDs to hit subs creates a layer of complexity when choosing casualties.
    You must cautiously roll planes separatly.
    You have to watch if there is still a DD with the plane, and if not, you must check if there is other elligible casualty.

    You would also have to roll for air units separately under your proposal, so that doesn’t go away.

    @Baron:

    Don’t you have to often answer many questions on that matter?

    No more than for other complex (and some not-so-complex) rules.

    @Baron:

    I think that both rules on planes limitations vs subs have almost the same level of complexity.
    Maybe I’m wrong on this.

    You’re not wrong.  That’s what I meant by “six of one, half a dozen of the other”.

    @Baron:

    Am I right about all this?

    Mostly.  A few things:

    • In all editions of Classic, only attacking subs get First Strike, and subs can withdraw.

    • In 3rd edition Classic, only defending subs can submerge.

    • In original Europe and Pacific, destroyers do not cancel subs’ ability to submerge.

    • In 1940 2nd editions, 1941, and 1942 2nd edition, subs prevent unescorted transports from offloading for an amphibious assault.

  • '17 '16

    Thanks for all the answers and specially for Sub rules history.

    You’re not wrong. That’s what I meant by “six of one, half a dozen of the other”.

    What I should understant about “six of one, half a dozen of the other”, is that it is just an expression to illustrate complexity?


    I made a new thread in the House Rule section.
    It has a revised version of the summary of Subs rules, can you check, please, if all things are now corrected?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=33290.msg1266767#msg1266767

  • Official Q&A

    @Baron:

    What I should understant about “six of one, half a dozen of the other”, is that it is just an expression to illustrate complexity?

    It’s an expression to indicate that two things are just about the same.  There are 12 in a dozen, so half a dozen is six.  In saying “six of one, half a dozen of the other”, you’re basically saying they’re both six, and therefore the same, even though you’re saying it differently.

    @Baron:

    I made a new thread in the House Rule section.
    It has a revised version of the summary of Subs rules, can you check, please,  if all things are now corrected?

    Only one thing:  The rule about subs preventing unescorted transports offloading for an amphibious assault only applies to the 2nd editions of 1940 and 1942, not the 1st editions.

  • '17 '16

    @Krieghund:

    @Baron:

    What I should understant about “six of one, half a dozen of the other”, is that it is just an expression to illustrate complexity?

    It’s an expression to indicate that two things are just about the same.  There are 12 in a dozen, so half a dozen is six.  In saying “six of one, half a dozen of the other”, you’re basically saying they’re both six, and therefore the same, even though you’re saying it differently.

    Now I see, sorry I was a little slow here: english is not my mother tongue.
    @Baron:

    I made a new thread in the House Rule section.
    It has a revised version of the summary of Subs rules, can you check, please,  if all things are now corrected?

    Only one thing:  The rule about subs preventing unescorted transports offloading for an amphibious assault only applies to the 2nd editions of 1940 and 1942, not the 1st editions.

    I made the correction, hope all is correct.
    Thanks again for the supervision.
    If you have any idea about the release year of classic editions, I will incorporate them in my post.

  • Official Q&A

    1st: 1984
    2nd: 1986
    3rd: 1997

  • '17 '16

    @Krieghund:

    1st: 1984
    2nd: 1986
    3rd: 1997

    Thanks again.

    Now, I hope I will find time to describ  the evolution of the control effect of Subs on SZ.

Suggested Topics

  • 2
  • 11
  • 8
  • 9
  • 3
  • 7
  • 19
  • 12
Axis & Allies Boardgaming Custom Painted Miniatures

37

Online

17.0k

Users

39.3k

Topics

1.7m

Posts