Dealing With the Italian Fleet and Securing Africa

  • '16 '15 '10

    What are the best strategies for destroying the Italian fleet and stopping Italy from getting NOs?

    Attack with United Kingdom or attack with USA?  Turn 2, 3 or 4?  What is the bigger priority for the USA–weakening Italy or creating a Pacific threat asap?  Can both be accomplished at once?

    Another related topic… should I send Russian gear into Persia R1 or R2 to help in Syria or India or is this considered too risky?


  • I usually send 2-4 infantry depending on how hard Germany pushed. Those 2-4 infantries are used to strengthen India (assuming an UK IC). Caucasus is alot more easier to defend if there is only 1 front. This can be guaranteed by an IC in India. Of course, USA has to put some pressure in the Pacific, or else the IC in India is going down. Free IC for Japan is never a good Idea

    Robert


  • In a typical KGF, it is better for the US to go after africa/rome, and the UK to go after norway/finland/kar/berlin.  Also, US2 can typically sink the Italian fleet, US3 almost always.  And you really dont have to worry much about that fleet if the US can threaten rome anyway.


  • All chances are that Japan R1 position themselves to be a threatto India and the whole African east coast.

    If USA place itself to threaten Italian Fleet R1, Japan R2 is in position to make sure the cannal stays open to Indian ocean for the Italian Fleet if germany and Italy could not do it by themselves.

    Italy playing after Japan makes sure Italian fleet can break free. I normally always do tha with Italy and go hunt for extra IPcs ( Austrlia, guinea, zealand, madasgascar, etc… ). This ensure you get  stronger Italy for the rest of the game even if losing NOs.

    In 2 games, I even got hold of India with Italy, placed an IC on it and was operating from there supported by Japan.

  • '16 '15 '10

    It’s easy enough to destroy the fleet Round 3 or 4 if it stays in the Med if Allies are KGF.  But how do the Allies deal with it if the USA is chasing Japan?  I’m not sure how I feel about USA clearing the Med and then going back on Japan.

    This is a cool game…lots of fun puzzles.  KGF with NOs doesn’t seem to work…Axis gets the economic advantage and wins the long game.  But KJF also seems like a mistake if Italy and Germany are getting all their NOs.  Italy has to be neutered.


  • The 1st thing you should think about is wheather ignoring it is an option.  This may not always be the case, but if you can work around the Italian fleet headache you may as well.

    After that ask yourself how big of a priority it is.  If you find it your #1 priority you can kill the fleet by T2.


  • I guess you could handle it with a few subs and then do a bombing run from Uk or Brazil and land the bombers in Cauc.  If threatened the Italian fleet can be very limited in its ability to move or function.  If the fleet is not off Italy it will be hard to put enough ships in at once to not get strafed.


  • The Italian fleet leaving the Med has the same effect as destroying it, meaning it is no longer a threat.  And as for a KGF, you just have to get Russia its 2nd NO and deny germany it’s 3 NOs and then the axis do not have an economic advantage, with all 3 allied nations gunning for Europe its not that difficult, US goes after Africa/Italy, UK goes after the north, norway, finland, karelia, and russia just kills German units.  There are various flavors of doing this, but that is the general concept that works fairly well.


  • KGF is easy to spot.

    An advised Germany will simply build a France IC and go in turtle mode.
    Hold it’s front line and produce only infantry every turn, using it’s airforce to swap.

    KGF also means Japan becomes a monster, placing IC in East Indies, India, they can easily take Africa by themselves.

    Also, saying that having the Italian fleet retreat from med is the same as destroying it, is wrong. That fleet can conquer territories and can always come back supported by Japan. Persia and Egypt can be both hit fom Indian ocean where Japan normally rules supreme, so Italian NOs and the channel can be kept by axis.

  • '16 '15 '10

    Well Italy won’t be able to get infantry to its ships (unless it comes through Cauc) so yes leaving the Med will eventually render it useless.


  • @Zhukov44:

    Well Italy won’t be able to get infantry to its ships (unless it comes through Cauc) so yes leaving the Med will eventually render it useless.

    Unless they pick some inf/art/tank, ferry to mad or India and use them to annoying lonely infs or empty african IPCs  😉

    And they could still transport japanese infs if needed. Also, they will defend jap’s fleet in India from massive allied aircrafts

    Italian navy escaping to Indian Ocean is like a draw: UK manages their main target of preventing reinforcements to Africa or rogue attacks to cau, but italians can still annoy east african coast


  • That coast will be lost to Japan anyway though so at least to me its a non issue once they leave, as with Italy going after UK that canal will never be open again for Italy, even if it costs me a trany.

    In reality, the Italian fleet is designed to be a speed bump for the allies, and should be used as such.  One thing I really hate as allies is when that fleet suicides onto mine keeping the fig alive and sometimes the BB, but still killing hard to replace UK defensive boats.  At times as Italy if I see an allied build up for africa in the early game I will buy a sub or extra fig to make that hit a bit harder.


  • I am curious what the current opinions are for dealing with the Allied fleet now that Allied strategies have had some time to mature.


  • While not having logged many Anniversary Edition games as of yet (about 7-8), I like the idea of using the U.S. to build an IC in Brazil on turn 1 and sending the destroyer and transport there as well. Upon T2 build 1 more transport in Brazil and you have 2 inf & 2 armor landing in Fre Eq Afr or Belg Congo from that point forward. That should be enough ground support to clean up Africa. At the same time buy bombers and additional naval units for a massive invasion force for either France, NW Europe or Morocco-Algeria. Use the bombers and fighters you have to attack the Italian/German navy then proceed with the invasion. My group is playing again this weekend (Sat 5-22) and I hope to draw the US so I can test this theory. Obviously this is a KIF strategy.


  • @war:

    While not having logged many Anniversary Edition games as of yet (about 7-8), I like the idea of using the U.S. to build an IC in Brazil on turn 1 and sending the destroyer and transport there as well. Upon T2 build 1 more transport in Brazil and you have 2 inf & 2 armor landing in Fre Eq Afr or Belg Congo from that point forward. That should be enough ground support to clean up Africa. At the same time buy bombers and additional naval units for a massive invasion force for either France, NW Europe or Morocco-Algeria. Use the bombers and fighters you have to attack the Italian/German navy then proceed with the invasion. My group is playing again this weekend (Sat 5-22) and I hope to draw the US so I can test this theory. Obviously this is a KIF strategy.

    You say that you can have 2 inf/2 arm landing in lower Africa, but Brazil can only build 3 units. Most here, I’m sure, would agree that the best method is to simply move a T1 fleet off Africa coast in SZ12, combined with Gbr’s fleet, and begin to shuck in units.


  • cts17…you are correct. You can only build three things from Brazil. My bad. Still you could have 2 inf and 1 tank or 2 tanks and one inf. My point was after the IC was established and production began on turn 2 the African continent is pretty much under control if you tie up or destroy the Italian navy by turn 3 or 4. In my opinion the only real threat to Africa is Japan but by that time the Allies (if played right) should have Italy and Germany to the point of surrender.


  • Wor Monger…
    I like your idea about the Brazil IC. But in my eyes it should be used as a cheap and secure way to support africa with units while US goes Pacific with everything else 🙂 From Brazil you can shuck troops over every round, out of reach of axis airforce…


  • Oh the long debate over Brazil. I disagree with its existence entirely. It is a waist. Lets wait for a second and compare costs. You are moving three units so you need 2 transports. So you already have two. Now I am going to suggest that you walk your units from US East coast into Panama. Now have two transports pick them up and drop them in Brazil. Now use your other two transports to pick them up from Brazil and land them into Africa. It costs you a dollar less and unless the Germans or Italians have bombers in Morocco then the transports are free to run without defense. Same as having a IC in Brazil.


  • Why not just move the troops to East Canada and drop them with US transports protected by the UK fleet?


  • What I like about the Brazil IC is that you already have one transport down there by round 2 when it starts producing and it is out of harms way. So it’s a cheap, independent and simple way of getting troops to Africa, while you’re doing the real fighting in the Pacific.
    I must admit that I haven’t tried it yet…… But it’s a tempting idea!

  • '16 '15 '10

    Transports are better.  If don’t have the naval strength to land in sz12, then you need to build it.  Once you start landing in SZ12, you are

    1. Taking out an Italian NO
    2. Threatening Italy
    3. Threatening France/NWE

    That’s alot for Germany to worry about, and it requires alot of resources to protect Italy and France.

    By contrast, Axis can totally ignore a Brazil factory and a transport or 2 going to Congo.  By not contesting North Africa and/or threatening Germany’s rear end, this Brazil strat helps Germany put more income into destroying Russia.

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