Islaam really isn't as violent as you think

My views on this subject are well established (2nd one i think . . .) but at the same time, if i was an American, or if these things happened in Canada, it would not be long before i started wondering “why are the practicers of Islam/people of Arabic descent who claim to be Canadians not denouncing these occurrances”? There are declarations of war nearly daily against America by “these people” (not all Muslims blah blah blah) with few standing up and saying “this is my country! I love it! You have incurred our wrath, our shock, and we will not let this happen again!” Instead they reflexively protest being targetted because of these attacks - but not because they abhor the attacks and feel empathy with their fellow Americans. No, it’s because they live in America and should not be singled out like this. As a 3rd person observer working with Muslims i respect greatly - some of which have helped form my life, i am a little surprised at the fact that the only apparent outcry following 9/11 is:

1. Parties in the streets of primarily Islaamic countries, and
2. Unhappiness at being targetted for the actions of their “brothers and sisters”.
   I’ll tell you right now - if a Christian did something like this - anywhere in the world, i would very quickly and loudly denounce this as an EVIL (for you FS) action - not Christian and supporting Christian actions to help those violated by these actions.

@Yanny:

Simply enough, Muslims are seen as scapegoats in this country.

Because they are the religion treated best by the media? Because of the tremendous amont of out pouring of support to the Muslim Community post 9/11? Because there was no serious lashing out against Muslims in the U.S.?

@yourbuttocks:

Because they are the religion treated best by the media? Because of the tremendous amont of out pouring of support to the Muslim Community post 9/11? Because there was no serious lashing out against Muslims in the U.S.?

LOL :lol:

you belive this?

you belive this?

I believe it because I say it with my own two eyes. :-? After 9/11 there was a huge surge to support for the Muslim community by the media teaching people not to hate and not to blame Muslims but the true terrorists for 9/11. In schools it was made perfectly care not to tolerate violence on that group. Aren’t you surprised that the number of hate crimes didn’t shoot up even higher. Of course in California, it’s much more ethnically diverse so I’m not so sure about the rest of the Union. :-?

ya they did that but still a lot of americans thought muslims are evil, and the plans to attach the muslims in horrific ways were found out and stoped but if the hadnt stoped it….

they did that but still a lot of americans thought muslims are evil

Would it be any different in another country (non-Islamic) if this happened? :o But by and large this “lot of americans” was only a tiny majority compared to the rest of the more clear-minded, common sense people.

I did notice quite a bit of support, and knowing of some of the mentality in the States i was surprised that there were no obvious “anti-Muslim” rampages.
I think that the “evil-thinkers” were that way before 9/11 anyway (i.e. there was no REAL change in the amount anti-Muslim sentiment, but perhaps some increase in the intensity . . . if that makes any sense).

well, CC, there might not have been rampages, still the number of hate-crimes went up pretty high. I think that is sign enough that the “don’t hate muslims”-coverage in the media didn’t work 100% perfectly.

the number of hate-crimes went up pretty high. I think that is sign enough that the “don’t hate muslims”-coverage in the media didn’t work 100% perfectly.

There are always boud to be some yahoos in some parts of any country that think violence is the answer. Please give me a none-Islamic country where the people wouldn’t react 100% “perfectly.” You simply cannot. The number of hates crime did rise, but I’m surprised how small the numbers still are. :-?

Dude, I’d be surprised if most European countries even keep records on “hate crimes.” I can be as cynical as any, but most people in this ol’ USofA are a forgiving type, live-and-let-live, salt of the earth, hold a job and send the kids to medical school or computer academy, etc.

I have done my share of bad-mouthing one kind of red-white-and-blue redneck or snob or intolerant sshle or another, but there are few other nations these days that welcome just about everybody, and provide the avenues for free speech, etc. And while we are at it, THANK GOODNESS for THOMAS JEFFERSON, the original champion of the separation of church and state. It seems to me that most of the people on Main Street don’t wish to shove their private religious beliefs down other Americans’ throats – and it also seems to me that – for all of our gross, underhanded, outright illegal and other horrible mistakes and human rights infringements over the years – the U.S. military goes more out of its way than most other military organizations to protect the innocents.

You know something that really moves me emotionally. I am not kidding here – if you want to take a read of how forgiving, thoughtul and all-embracing the true American ideal can be, simply contemplate the amazing wheelchair-capable restroom! Where else on this spinning, orbiting madhouse of a world can you find, in city after town after truckstop after business after factory after schoolhouse such a basic effort toward improving human dignity!?

Instead of casting aside our “crippled” or maimed or otherwise disabled, we mandate nationally that their simplest needs and urgent natural callings must be accommodated in a civilized way. Dammit, show me what other country has more wheelchair restroom stalls per capita than the USofA? (IF some wiseguy sez Canada, well shucks I capitulate technically, but the comparison is frivolous)
We care about the underdog, even while the fat cats, white collar criminals, political prostitutes, street gangs, cable tv companies and organized mobsters are looting us all blind.

Inch’ Allah and God Bless America and let’s keep moving away from the medieval mores of the past and toward greater tolerance as intrepidly as possible!

(and thanks for hearing out this rant)

why frivolous?

However TG, we have a much bigger percentage of hate crimes (in fact, all crime) than any other western country.

I find this hard to believe… :-?

@ZimZaxZeo:

Dude, I’d be surprised if most European countries even keep records on “hate crimes.” I can be as cynical as any, but most people in this ol’ USofA are a forgiving type, live-and-let-live, salt of the earth, hold a job and send the kids to medical school or computer academy, etc.

I have done my share of bad-mouthing one kind of red-white-and-blue redneck or snob or intolerant sshle or another, but there are few other nations these days that welcome just about everybody, and provide the avenues for free speech, etc. And while we are at it, THANK GOODNESS for THOMAS JEFFERSON, the original champion of the separation of church and state. It seems to me that most of the people on Main Street don’t wish to shove their private religious beliefs down other Americans’ throats – and it also seems to me that – for all of our gross, underhanded, outright illegal and other horrible mistakes and human rights infringements over the years – the U.S. military goes more out of its way than most other military organizations to protect the innocents.

You know something that really moves me emotionally. I am not kidding here – if you want to take a read of how forgiving, thoughtul and all-embracing the true American ideal can be, simply contemplate the amazing wheelchair-capable restroom! Where else on this spinning, orbiting madhouse of a world can you find, in city after town after truckstop after business after factory after schoolhouse such a basic effort toward improving human dignity!?

Instead of casting aside our “crippled” or maimed or otherwise disabled, we mandate nationally that their simplest needs and urgent natural callings must be accommodated in a civilized way. Dammit, show me what other country has more wheelchair restroom stalls per capita than the USofA? (IF some wiseguy sez Canada, well shucks I capitulate technically, but the comparison is frivolous)
We care about the underdog, even while the fat cats, white collar criminals, political prostitutes, street gangs, cable tv companies and organized mobsters are looting us all blind.

Inch’ Allah and God Bless America and let’s keep moving away from the medieval mores of the past and toward greater tolerance as intrepidly as possible!

(and thanks for hearing out this rant)

Thomas Jefferson, if I recall correctly, he was the one who wrotei nthe American Delcaration of Independence that “all men are created equal” while he owned slaves and simply helped to bury the issue of slavery.

Are we talk about the same USA that did not accept any Jews during the Holocaust, such as the famous ship St. Louis? I’m just bringing this specific example, but there are others such as not allowing the Japanese to immigrate to the US before WW2 and interning those Japanese who were living the US in camps during the war.

We’re also talking about the same USa that encourages the “melting pot” -the asimilation of all its people and immigrants into patriotic Americans.

Let’s not forget the USA that for many years worked for manifest destiny and even invaded Mexico and British North America. Such a liberal country, in its attempt to make itself the strongest and only power in North America.

Please do not forget these events and circumstances. The USA has not always been such a tolerant and liberal society. The US has many good thingd about it, but there also enough bad things that should also be considered. I frankly am not surprised that mosques are attacked in the US, when you’re a patriotic American before anything else, you’d want to get a little revenge for 9/11, even if it isnt on the actual terrorists. Xenophobia is a horrible excuse and tool for hate, it always has been, and you can see it in America’s history countless times.

@TG:

There are always boud to be some yahoos in some parts of any country that think violence is the answer. Please give me a none-Islamic country where the people wouldn’t react 100% “perfectly.” You simply cannot. The number of hates crime did rise, but I’m surprised how small the numbers still are. :-?

Sure, it wouldn’t be “perfect” in any country….
but for the number of crimes: that are only the known ones. If you read something of the muslim organizations, you will see that the situation for muslims changed a lot after 9/11, more or less every one said he had suffered from discrimination to threats to their life…

@EmuGod:

Xenophobia is a horrible excuse and tool for hate, it always has been, and you can see it in America’s history countless times.

applauds

@ZimZaxZeo:

Dude, I’d be surprised if most European countries even keep records on “hate crimes.” …

you are surprised then….
i know that the countries i lived in do keep records like that. And i would be surprised if any government didn’t: it is listening to the people, listening for threats for their own power.

And while we are at it, THANK GOODNESS for THOMAS JEFFERSON, the original champion of the separation of church and state.

Well, i think that seperation was first mentioned by Spinoza in his Tractatus

…, simply contemplate the amazing wheelchair-capable restroom! Where else on this spinning, orbiting madhouse of a world can you find, in city after town after truckstop after business after factory after schoolhouse such a basic effort toward improving human dignity!?

Instead of casting aside our “crippled” or maimed or otherwise disabled, we mandate nationally that their simplest needs and urgent natural callings must be accommodated in a civilized way. Dammit, show me what other country has more wheelchair restroom stalls per capita than the USofA? (IF some wiseguy sez Canada, well shucks I capitulate technically, but the comparison is frivolous)

I don’t know about the US and Canada, but (again) i know there are quite a lot of these restrooms in any public building in Germany or the Australia.
So, i can’t compare it, and neither do i know the “per capita” number… but if you take that, then i would say the Ozzies are in front, alone by the number of heads you have to divide by …

We care about the underdog, even while the fat cats, white collar criminals, political prostitutes, street gangs, cable tv companies and organized mobsters are looting us all blind.

Inch’ Allah and God Bless America and let’s keep moving away from the medieval mores of the past and toward greater tolerance as intrepidly as possible!

Too true…. I would love to see that economic crimes are made (and punished like) capital crimes…

Awright: Assuming that the per capita stats are available, and that such stats be of unassailable integrity, I will consider conditionally ceding the wide-body toilet issue to the honorable delegates from Australia, Germany, and (sigh) Canada.