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Can the Allies win if you don't send planes into Russia?



  • I try to avoid ahistorical means of winning Axis and Allies games.

    I abhor the Japanese tanks into Moscow etc etc in Axis Allies Revised

    So can the Allies win if UK doesn’t send planes into Russia?



  • Possible, I think yes.  Probable, I’d lean towards no.  I think it would be more of the Axis player making a mistake in troop allocation early in the game and not sending enough to the Eastern Front that would lose them the war as opposed to Russia winning the war.

    The Soviet Patriotic War was more what WW2 was called from the Soviet standpoint, while Lend-Lease was how the other Allies, particularly the US helped aide it’s allies with war materials and money.  If you look at the Soviet Patriotic War rules as Lend-Lease, which is what it should have been called in the manual, then sending planes, or war materials, was historically accurate.
        The US gave the Soviets over 11 Billion in material during the war, and over 31 Billion to the Brits (US gave over 50 billion total during war, today equal to over 700 billion)  The British actually sent 14% of their total tank production to USSR during the war, so some of the money and goods the US gave the UK was in turn given to the USSR.  But as for planes, over 18,000 of them went to the Soviets historically from US/UK.
      This function in the game is both historical and necessary for the Allies to win the game as it was historically.

    Lend-lease aircraft amounted to 18% of all aircraft in the Soviet air forces, 20% of all bombers, and 16-23% of all fighters (numbers vary depending on calculation methods), and 29% of all naval aircraft. In some AF commands and fronts the proportion of Lend-Lease aircraft was even higher: of the 9.888 fighters delivered to the air defense (PVO) fighter units in 1941-45 6.953 (or over 70%!) were British or American. In the AF of the Karelian front lend-lease aircraft amounted to about two-thirds of all combat aircraft in 1942-43, practically all torpedo bombers of the naval air forces were A-20G Bostons in 1944-45 etc.
    from http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/geust/aircraft_deliveries.htm

    also…
    _The aircraft delivered as part of the lend lease programme were especially welcome following the Red airforces catastrophic losses during the opening months of the campaign. Lend-lease aircraft amounted to 18% of all aircraft in the Soviet air forces, 20% of all bombers and 16% of all fighters and 29% of all naval aircraft. Some American aircraft types, such as the P-39 Airacobra fighters, A-20 Boston and B-25 Mitchell bombers and C-47 transport aircraft, were highly revered by their Russian crews. Several Russian aces scored more than 40 victories with Airacobras. The list below details the numbers and types of individual aircraft sent to Russia:

    P-39 Airacobra single-engine fighters - 4719
    P-40 single-engine fighters - 2397
    P-47 - 195
    Hurricane single-engine fighters - 2952
    Spitfire single-engine fighters - 1331
    A-20 twin-engine light attack bombers - 2908
    B-25 twin-engine medium bombers - 862_
    from- http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/lendlease.htm



  • interesting…
    found this:

    Mark V’s were also sent to the Soviet Union to aid in its fight against Germany after Operation Barbarossa commenced in June 1941. Britain would supply a total of over 1,300 Spitfires of several Marks to the Soviet Union over the course of the war, along with almost 3,000 Hurricanes. An interesting relic from the period is a 1942 Finnish Air Force aircraft recognition guide depicting fighters in service with the Soviet Union (remember that Finland fought alongside Germany against the Soviet Union). This is how they depicted the Spitfire Mark V in Russian markings:

    at http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2008/03/weekend-wings-12-spitfire-legend-grows.html
    **attached is finish flyer to help distinguish spitfires during their war with Soviets.

    and this has several more pictures of Soviet painted Spitfires as well as their movements in the war.
    http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm
    -oh hey, that’s the same site as murray mentioned, bonus.

    spit2.jpg



  • Thanks, that helps with the rationale to do so.

    And why not be able to just deliver a certain ltd amount of IPC’s to the SU each turn by the USA and the UK to simulate the Lend Lease by both countries?

    Are there rules for that?

    Thanks



  • This is the from the Advanced AA game, but could be modified for the original.  Since this is used in conjunction with the Adv. Pacific game and there are no specific Lend-lease convoy zones in the original.  Historically, much of the Lend-lease that went to the SU from the USA went through the northern pacific, but you could simply set a cap on IPCs to send and then give the Axis a shot at them as they travel to SU.

    anyhow, here’s the Adv. AA rules:

    Lend-Lease Convoy Zones:

    • There are three such zones on the European map.
      -        The US player and the UK player may each lend-lease units to the Soviet Union, a total of 12 IPCs in value.  The US player may also lend-lease units to the UK, a total of 12 IPCs in value.
      -        During the purchase phase, the lend-lease units are placed on the lend-lease convoy zones instead of the area where newly built units are placed.  The convoys must be Allied-controlled in order for them to be used.
    • The Axis may attack lend-lease convoys that have a lend-lease unit placed on them.  If an Axis naval unit captures a lend-lease convoy, the lend-lease unit is destroyed.  Submarines may attack lend-lease convoys in the same manner as regular convoy zones.  If the attack is a Convoy Raid, then every three (3) points of damage inflicted by attacking submarines on the lend-lease convoy zone, one random lend-lease unit is destroyed.
    • Lend-lease units arrive at the end of the Axis turn and are available for use on the following Allied turn.  Units lent to Russia arrive in Archangel.  Replace the British or American units with a Russian unit of the same type in Archangel.  If the Axis controls Archangel, then the unit is returned to London or Washington.  Units lent to the UK arrive in London.  Replace the American unit with a British unit of the same type.


  • I’d say its possible but I’ve found that it really helps if they do send planes.



  • In my experience, Russia has not won without additional Air Force.

    I’m playing a game right now where all nations are restricted to territory value for build limit…Russia can only build five units per round to Germany’s ten.

    I’ve sent Russia the British Bomber, built a fighter, and recieved three fighters and I’m about to convert two more…

    …I’m still alive! I still have Lenningrad!

    I’m gonna die!  :lol:

    …but I’m still alive and it’s almost round five!

    is proud  😛


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