Sub Suprise Attack vs Battleship rules clarification…

@general-LD
“When attacking or defending, hits scored by air units cannot be assigned to submarines
unless there is a destroyer friendly to the air units in the battle.” (Rulebook, page 30)

HTH :slightly_smiling_face:

I had planned on making it to Gen Con this year but I wasn’t able to get the time off work on the relatively short notice. Definitely going to try making it to Origins/Gencon next year though. I live on the US East Coast so the CA Tournaments, Young Grasshopper’s Tournaments, etc. are probably out of the question though, just as a logistics thing.

@s.farresque:

Hi,
I too have been searching for answers but in a simple sub vs. sub context. Manual, pg 18,“Step 2, General Combat…both attacking and defending submarines can choose to either make a Surprise Strike or Submerge…”,pg 30,“Submarines, Special Abilities, Submersible:…The decision is made before any dice are rolled by either side (the attacker decides first) and takes effect immediately.”, this is reasserted on pg 4 of the March 2009 FAQ, “Submarines Q. Exactly when is the decision made whether or not to submerge submarines? A. The decision whether to submerge submarines is made before any dice are rolled by either side in an exchange of fire , and the subs submerge immediately. The attacker decides before the defender.”. “Decides” does not equate to “attacks”.
BGG Axis and Allies Anniversary Edition, Forum, Rules, Sept, 2009, “Can a submarine ever be attacked without a destroyer present because of the ability to submerge first”. Kevin Chapman ( Patron) answers,“…so a sub can only attack another sub if the defender chooses to fight (or there is an attacking destroyer)”.
BGG (as above), in " subs vs other naval units", has other useful comments by Kevin Chapman and Don Moody on this subject.
I like the imagery of this implementation. A lone sub,or two causing isolated mayhem before sinking into the depths or just driving for their pens, until, at the slightest indication of an attack,“Dive, dive dive”. What is wrong with that…until a destroyer turns them from buccaneers of the sea into desperate survivors hoping only to escape!.
Cheers.

Was there a question in there somewhere?  You initially said you were searching for answers but never really asked any question(s).  Just trying to end your search for answers

Splitting this Colonial Outpost idea out into it’s own thread.

Thread fixed.  :-D

@packrat76:

can the defending sub keep submerging before the attacker can attack if there is no destroyer in the attacking fleet?

what do you mean with “keep”?
Note that if a sub chooses to submerge, it cannot attack or defend either.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

2.a) they shoot before the attacker, and if roll at 1, if they score attacking unit sinks before having the chance of attacking – if attacking unit is a BB she can take the torpedo hit and attack anyway, but if it’s a Cruiser she goes to the bottom right there without dropping a single deep charge.

This is true if there’s no attacking desrtoyer.  If there is an attacking destroyer, the sub fires at the same time as the attacker(s) and the results are simultaneous.

yes, as I’ve stated, I was assuming no enemy destroyer attacking.
buy what does it means that “the sub fires at the same time”?
1.Attacker rolls
2.Defender select casualties
3.Defender moves casualties to casualty zone
4.Defender (subs) rolls
5.Attacker selects casualties
6.Everybody removes casualties.

that’s how it is, right?

Yes.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

2.b) can submerge after attacker roll

If there’s no enemy destroyer, subs may submerge instead of rolling.  This can be done in any combat round, including the first, so a sub can submerge instead of firing before the attacker fires if desired.

yes, I’m always assuming no enemy destroyer attacking at this point…
but again, just to clarify:

If an attacking fleet with no destroyer moves into a sz defended by a submarine… the submarine can just choose to submerge without fighting? I mean: nobody fires? not even a first round?
Example: four British Battleships moves into a sz where there is just one single German submarine to attack it (I know that British can ignore it, but say that they want to sink that annoying U-Boat)… and the German sub can chose to submerge avoiding even the first attack?

Yes.

@Gallo:

@Krieghund:

@Gallo:

If there’s a destroyer present, subs can’t do their sneak-attack (2.a doesn’t work), and they can’t submerge

True.  They then fire at the same time as everything else.

again, by firing at the same time you mean the 6 steps mentioned above, right?

Yes.

Thanks for the help… But Its too late for the poor Russians on the eastern front. I lost everything due to a jap attack with 5 fighters.