• Hi there,

    Don’t know if this has been brought up before but looking it from a common sense aspect (and I’m no AA expert  😄 ), doesn’t it make more sense that 1 destroyer should only be allowed to negate/detect 1 sub on a 1 for 1 basis? This would allow for the return of true wolf packs and make subs more deadly than now. It’s bogus that 1 destroyer can allow 100 ftrs to attack and kill, for example, 100 subs and the subs can only kill the destroyer?! This should at least be optional rule imo! Whatcha all think?


  • Oh, in case this makes subs too powerful, raise their IPC cost back to 7 if needed.


  • I see what you are saying, but I think that it’s more like 1 SS piece in the game actually represents more than 1 sub, just as 1 DD piece represents more than 1 Destroyer.  all the pieces represent larger numbers because the game is a zoomed out strategic view.

    my first thought though is if a destroyer was using sonar to find subs out ahead of a convoy, how many of those subs within the sonar range would be noticed?  one or all of them?

    I’d say see how it plays out a couple times and see if the allies are all scrambling for paratroopers so they don’t have to build ships because of all the wolfpacks…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    If you were to go along this route, I think the cost of the submarine should be increased to 8, or even 9 IPC.  Since their power is significantly magnified. (You have to have a destroyer for EVERY submarine attacking which means, as a battle drags on, you’ll lose more and more ability to negate sneak shots sinking your ships before they can return fire.  This is going to get increasingly magnified by either you sinking destroyers which defend a lot worse, or sinking cruisers and battleships to maintain your submarine screens.)

    I think you’ll also end up in situations where the battle will get confused. What I mean is you’ll have to keep track of how many submarines get to sneak vs how many are blocked by destroyers.

    The current rules minimize the complexity by stating that a single destroyer is enough to negate the sneak shot ability of all submarines.  It’s simple.


  • I agree, why complicate a simple rule even though it does not “make” sense? You have to draw the line somewhere or else you will get bogged down in the details.  I will admit it is silly that 100 subs can lose their ability from 1 destroyer but I’m over.


  • I think an easier rule to use that would cause less confusion would be only one plane can target a sub per destroyer.  Has a strong effect on subs, without too many complications.


  • @murray: very true, but remember the oceans are MUCH more vast than the board lets on.

    @Jennifer, I think 8 IPC may be fair. 1:1 vs destroyer and/or tweak some of the rules a bit I guess. I don’t think it will complicate a battle more but adds a little more strategy. Do you lose a sub and first strike ability or lose your cruiser/fighter which have better hit factors? As it is now, it’s obvious (90%) what you will lose first in battle.

    JMHO


  • @Yasha:

    @murray: very true, but remember the oceans are MUCH more vast than the board lets on.

    oceans are vast, but I wouldn’t think it would matter as much how vast the ocean is but where in the ocean the subs and destroyers are.  If they are close enough to shoot at the enemy, they are close enough for sonar.

    I’ve seen a search roll used, maybe in aarhe, or somewhere, where you would roll to see if you could find the enemy ships, whether subs or surface within the zone because it’s so vast, and if found, then you could shoot.  you could increase it for each sub/destroyer perhaps.


  • A historically accurate game would be boring and too complicated.  Don’t worry about things that don’t make sense and enjoy what appears to be a pretty well balanced game at this point.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I’ve seen a search roll used, maybe in aarhe, or somewhere, where you would roll to see if you could find the enemy ships, whether subs or surface within the zone because it’s so vast, and if found, then you could shoot.  you could increase it for each sub/destroyer perhaps.

    Thats what we have and have always used namely the 1:1 ratio for determining how many subs are negated and also the number of rolls for search

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