Japan Naval Defense (WARNING: LONG)


  • 2016 2015 '10

    My particular oppo didn’t do China or Pearl, so yeah he was in a world of hurt in no time flat.

    But if Japan attacks the Brit fleet with the 4 figs + bb+ carrier, hits China with 2 figs 1 bomb 4 inf, and buy 3 transports, then Japan is in relatively good shape.  On average Japan will lose 2 figs at 30…if they do then thats ok–the UK fleet is destroyed and the carrier doesn’t have to go to 30, instead it can go to the Fico sz and protect a landing there.  The drawbacks are the loss of the 2 figs and letting the Pearl fleet live, but USA is still behind in the naval race which means Japan will have enough time to reunite the fleet.

    I think going to SZ 30 is a good deployment to go with the India fact + KJF but I wonder if there anything better.

    All that said I imagine most opponents just ignore SZ 30 allowing the Allies to unite the fleets.



  • @Zhukov44:

    I think going to SZ 30 is a good deployment to go with the India fact + KJF but I wonder if there anything better.

    Transport nzel inf to aus, keep the aussie sub also in z40

    Send AC plus dd, tra (if not used) to z33

    Bomber to Russia

    You can join fleets round 2 (z30) and send bomb to ind to make a try against eind with aussie infs + bomb UK3 and still send remaining fleet to z40 safety, then join USA’s fleet round 4 or 5



  • @Funcioneta:

    @Zhukov44:

    I think going to SZ 30 is a good deployment to go with the India fact + KJF but I wonder if there anything better.

    Transport nzel inf to aus, keep the aussie sub also in z40

    Send AC plus dd, tra (if not used) to z33

    Bomber to Russia

    You can join fleets round 2 (z30) and send bomb to ind to make a try against eind with aussie infs + bomb UK3 and still send remaining fleet to z40 safety, then join USA’s fleet round 4 or 5

    Except the fighters can kill the sub/trans in SZ 40 (probably w/o a loss too).

    If Japan is determined to kill the UK fleet at the cost of fighters and Pearl, let him.



  • @squirecam:

    Except the fighters can kill the sub/trans in SZ 40 (probably w/o a loss too).

    If Japan is determined to kill the UK fleet at the cost of fighters and Pearl, let him.

    I never saw Japan attacking aussie fleet at z40. They always make Pearl 2 and China because they have not enough to kill all. Anyway, you can submerge the sub if they dare to attack (another reason for Japs to not attack)

    But I agree with your 2nd sentence


  • 2016 2015 '10

    @uffishbongo:

    Yeah, that may not have come out very clearly in the article; I wasn’t trying to recommend type 1 KJF; I was trying not to comment on it one way or the other (because I feel I have insufficient data).  A more complete breakdown of the different types of KJF I’ve seen would be as follows:
    (1) Go whole hog against Japan, from the start, with everybody.
    (2) Go against Japan from the start, but only with the US Navy.
    (3) Go against Japan (either US Navy only, or with other assistance) in response to dice and/or opponent mistakes.

    The purpose of the article was to make the case that (2) is a bad idea.  In my mind the jury is still out on (1); at best it’s very difficult, but it’s possible I just haven’t honed it enough.  I think (3) can be usable.  Although, as you say, I’ve been suckered into (3) when I shouldn’t have.  I wouldn’t do (3) just because Japan skipped Pearl; in that case they still have all 4 capital ships and all or most of their air, i.e. they’re still an absolute beast.  I might go for it if they went to Pearl and left the BB and CV open to counterattack, although even then I’d be reluctant if there weren’t other things going my way too.

    Returning again to the topic and this earlier post…. basically you suggest only go with a USA Pacific offensive in response to either mistakes or ill dice on J1.

    What I’m trying to determine (and I imagine every expert Revised player has their own ideas on this) is when it is favorable to go Pacific in a competitive expert game where you want to win?  In such a game, there is no UK1 India factory and at best there are only the 6 Russians in Bury and 4 in Sink.  How much does Japan have to have lost…or not destroyed (ie. what Allied ships are still alive?) in order for him to be weak enough for USA to attack?

    I have a Facebook game going now where my oppo lost his Jap sub on UK1.  On J1, he skipped Pearl, and hit Bury (the UK destroyer had been destroyed by the 59 tranny, enabling the Bury assault) and hit the UK fleet off Egypt…losing 2 fighters.  So all in all he was down 2 fighters and a sub…and he didn’t hit the Pearl fleet…  In addition, he went with a 2 factory approach (clearly whether Japan goes with factories or trannys should also play a role) and his attack on China was weak, enabling the USA to retake China on USA1…  So even though Japan had lost no capital ships, I felt that the USA ought to invest in the Pacific theater (giving all the factors working against Japan) even though my opponent is very skilled.  Was I right?

    It is a hard question to determine.  What I am relatively certain of is that if Japan leaves either the USA or UK carrier alive that should be significant in deciding what to do.  Similarly, every spare unit left alive (such as the UK sub and transport originally from Aussie) should count to some extent.



  • I would probably go for it in those circumstances…I don’t really have a lot of good guidelines though, just gut feelings.



  • I think you right to have United States go to Pacific in game.  United States with full Pacific fleet, Japan buy no more ship, Japan lock in spend at least 18 IPC on land unit for Industrial Complex, and Japan lose 2 of 6 Fighter means good time to go Pacific.

    United States start to take Islands quickly in that game even with 2 Battleship and 2 Aircraft Carrier for Japan.  He only have 1 big fight with fleet before he no longer have ship force in Pacific.

    United Kingdom will have much work to do.  Will have to send land unit to Norway and to Algeria going back and forth each turn to hold Africa and keep Germany from focus on Russia.

    I think game you describe would be fun game to play.


  • 2016 2015 '10

    @uffishbongo:

    I would probably go for it in those circumstances…I don’t really have a lot of good guidelines though, just gut feelings.

    Yeah same here… If one formulated some guidelines, they would have to be tested by concrete experience…  But theoretically, it should be possible to eventually create a formula of sorts that could serve as a guideline.  This formula would have to incorporate a number of variables…

    1. Did Japan build factories or transports or both?
    2. Did Japan lose any capital ships, or leave capital ships exposed to be destroyed before J2?
    3. Did Japan lose fighters or other essential naval units?
    4. What Allied naval units are still alive?
    5. What is the situation on the mainland (ie will Japan be getting a lot of mainland IPCs in the coming turns?)
    6. Is the Japanese fleet out of position or in a good strategic spot?


  • I’m currently in a game as the Axis where it is US against Japan with UK in Africa and Russia temporarily on their own against Germany. So far I’m waiting for UK3. I like the fallback option of FIC but don’t have a factory and probably shouldn’t build one at this point so I thought I might have another idea.

    Suppose that the Americans were able to advance their navy to the Solomons but Japan can’t reasonably attack them. Japan’s main fleet is already based on the Carolines and their transports, a loaded carrier, and whatever they built last turn is in zone 60. Japan still is stronger than the USA on the defense and can withstand an American attack if they consolidate everything on the Carolines. Then Japan can base all naval units on the Carolines except one sub to block a combat move to East Indies and Borneo through New Guinea. As long as Tokyo has enough to deter an attack, this might be a good delaying method although I haven’t yet tried it.

    Thoughts?



  • Sounds like it might work.  You could combine such a move with a pure air build…might be enough to make the Americans back off.


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