• Anybody going to catch the movie?  I’m a bit intrigued.  I’ve been getting into some graphic novels/manga the past few years, and of course I’ve heard how popular this comic is.

    Unfortunately I didn’t read it…but I recently downloaded all 12 episodes of DC’s motion comics.  It appears to be the entire graphic novel in a semianimated & narrated show.  Highly entertaining, and now I think I’ll see the movie.

    I also would be interested in hearing other recommendations (there was an old thread I can’t find where frimmel and others made some) following my enjoyment of this series and Y: The Last Man.

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    Previous thread?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12176.0

    Really should read the whole run starting with : Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes

    Great Batman Story : The Long Halloween

    Great JLA Story: Identity Crisis

    Scarier stuff: Swamp Thing by Alan Moore (yes Watchmen Alan Moore.)

    Super story: Hellblazer. Most of the Ennis Hellblazer is top notch. This is a particular favorite.

    I am eager for Watchmen and likely will be ditching work on Friday afternoon to attend.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I boycott all movies that have to resort to using ideas from comic books for a plot.

    Its so ridiculous to me to even have movies like this unless your like 8 years old. I used to watch Ultraman and Giant Robot and Gigantor but i don’t need to have some bloke waste 200 million and make some ubermodern interpretation of a childish idea. Its like going to Dave and Busters  ( Chuck E Cheese for adults) and acting like an idiot winning those stupid yellow tickets so i can buy more Chinese finger pulls. I might as well start wearing a bib and go ga ga.

  • 2007 AAR League

    I was turned on to the Watchmen by a friend of mine many years past and I reread it a couple years ago. It happens to be the very last graphic novel I ever read since my comic book collecting days are long over.

    I’m concerned that it won’t be true to the original story. My tolerance for creative liscense is directly proprtional to how much I like a particular story. I thoroughly enjoyed the Watchmen so my tolerance for them taking liberties with the movie will be non-existant. Case in point, I have never seen a satisfactory Dracula movie.

    And, yes, I know I’m being anal. I can’t help it.


  • @frimmel:

    Previous thread?

    http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=12176.0

    Really should read the whole run starting with : Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes

    Great Batman Story : The Long Halloween

    Great JLA Story: Identity Crisis

    Scarier stuff: Swamp Thing by Alan Moore (yes Watchmen Alan Moore.)

    Super story: Hellblazer. Most of the Ennis Hellblazer is top notch. This is a particular favorite.

    I am eager for Watchmen and likely will be ditching work on Friday afternoon to attend.

    Thanks again.  I tried the search feature this time and it worked.  :lol:

    I’ve got a copy here or there of the Sandman series, which seemed good, but never got to read it all the way through.  I was working on 100 bullets, which had a great story and interesting art, but haven’t picked it up again.

    @Imperious:

    I boycott all movies that have to resort to using ideas from comic books for a plot.

    “Resort?”  Why?  I don’t blame you for disagreeing with Hollywood remaking remakes and jump starting a series that died twice before, but I don’t see any reason to boycott movies based on comics outright.

    Its so ridiculous to me to even have movies like this unless your like 8 years old.

    Have you seen this movie?  How do you know what it’s like?

    I used to watch Ultraman and Giant Robot and Gigantor but i don’t need to have some bloke waste 200 million and make some ubermodern interpretation of a childish idea.

    Equating this to cheesy 50-60-70s japanese monster films is apples and oranges.  The entire story is anything but childish, and really quite good.

    Its like going to Dave and Busters  ( Chuck E Cheese for adults) and acting like an idiot winning those stupid yellow tickets so i can buy more Chinese finger pulls. I might as well start wearing a bib and go ga ga.

    I don’t see how it’s anything like that.

    You do know that movies are a fantasy, an escape (one that always flourishes in uncertain and turbulent times), and that’s it, don’t you?

    What’s your idea of a movie worth your time?

    Actually, a better question for you: is there anything that you actually have a favorable opinion for at all?

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I boycott all movies that have to resort to using ideas from comic books for a plot.

    “Resort?”  Why?  I don’t blame you for disagreeing with Hollywood remaking remakes and jump starting a series that died twice before, but I don’t see any reason to boycott movies based on comics outright.

    Resort because film makers stopped using ideas for movies that were modernized versions of classic TV shows, After 2 decades of remaking every possible 1960’s TV show in a movie: Gilligan’s Island, Munsters, Lost in Space,Transformers, Brady Bunch, Bewitched, Batman, Superman, Addams family, Beverly Hillbillies, and a thousand other crazy ideas, they asked themselves… gee since we got not one good original idea and exhausted every TV show idea… whats left?

    Producer: "Hey whats that over there? "
    Writer: “Its my kids comic book. I promised marge id buy him something to read when he goes camping”
    Producer: “hey i just got a great idea”

    result= another bad movie born

    Movies are almost becoming like that Gieco commercial with the money and the eyes: Ill be watching you!  yea right buddy.

    Quote
    Its so ridiculous to me to even have movies like this unless your like 8 years old.

    Have you seen this movie?  How do you know what it’s like?

    I saw the part of the trailer where they embrace in front of an Atomic Bomb going off in the background. I don’t need to see or know anything more. I saw stupid childish creatures speaking English about “the world does not concern me so ill blow it up” kinda gibberish. I think i heard this before back when i was 5 years old watching Gigantor the space age robot.

    Quote
    I used to watch Ultraman and Giant Robot and Gigantor but i don’t need to have some bloke waste 200 million and make some ubermodern interpretation of a childish idea.

    Equating this to cheesy 50-60-70s japanese monster films is apples and oranges.  The entire story is anything but childish, and really quite good.

    I am making a proper analogy. DC comics is for kids. I am sure they have kids who are still 40 and living at home and they must be the target audience.

    Quote
    Its like going to Dave and Busters  ( Chuck E Cheese for adults) and acting like an idiot winning those stupid yellow tickets so i can buy more Chinese finger pulls. I might as well start wearing a bib and go ga ga.

    I don’t see how it’s anything like that.

    Have you seen this restaurant?  How do you know what it’s like??

    Its the worst place imaginable. Adults playing carnival games and winning tickets like kids at Shakeys? you gotta be kidding me!

    You do know that movies are a fantasy, an escape (one that always flourishes in uncertain and turbulent times), and that’s it, don’t you?

    Yes Star Wars and Star Trek are fine. I love them, because they represent either some place other than earth where the science could be plausible and plots that actually make sence. Kubrick 's 2001/2010 were great. Even planet of the apes was kinda plasible.

    But a superhero with magic powers flying around in current real world and enemies on surf boards and giant green dudes running 500 MPH is total Bull**it. This ridiculous form of entertainment is sad excuse for film making.

    is there anything that you actually have a favorable opinion for at all?

    Yes basically anything not made by DC comics and Marvel comics. I could do without Lord of the Rings too.

    Also i hate the gore movies or Friday the 13th part 459 or any horror movie where they say “its based on a true story”

    I basically hate BS. Sorry.

    Valkyrie was good. Saw it 4 times.

    Slumdog Millionaire was good.


  • @U-505:

    I was turned on to the Watchmen by a friend of mine many years past and I reread it a couple years ago. It happens to be the very last graphic novel I ever read since my comic book collecting days are long over.

    I’m concerned that it won’t be true to the original story. My tolerance for creative liscense is directly proprtional to how much I like a particular story. I thoroughly enjoyed the Watchmen so my tolerance for them taking liberties with the movie will be non-existant. Case in point, I have never seen a satisfactory Dracula movie.

    And, yes, I know I’m being anal. I can’t help it.

    I totally understand…there’s not enough time to pack the whole comic into a movie.  Nor could it be done in some sections (the pirate’s tale) without seeming awkward.  And it will probably get edited for content concerning some of the themes, ideas, or vulgarity.  But I hope it doesn’t.

    What you may be glad to hear is that the director and many actors are dedicated fans to the comic, so hopefully their hearts show in the production.  I’ve seen multiple parts of the trailers that are dead on from the panel of the comic.  Good or bad, I don’t know. The only complaint I’ve had is that the not-so-superheroes seem pretty powerful from the comic, but I guess they had to have some ability to be crusaders anyway…

    @Imperious:

    Resort because film makers stopped using ideas for movies that were modernized versions of classic TV shows, After 2 decades of remaking every possible 1960’s TV show in a movie: Gilligan’s Island, Munsters, Lost in Space,Transformers, Brady Bunch, Bewitched, Batman, Superman, Addams family, Beverly Hillbillies, and a thousand other crazy ideas, they asked themselves… gee since we got not one good original idea and exhausted every TV show idea… whats left?

    Ah, but all those stories had been done before.  Nothing is new if that’s what you are going on.

    I saw the part of the trailer where they embrace in front of an Atomic Bomb going off in the background. I don’t need to see or know anything more. I saw stupid childish creatures speaking English about “the world does not concern me so ill blow it up” kinda gibberish. I think i heard this before back when i was 5 years old watching Gigantor the space age robot.

    Well, I can tell you that doesn’t happen.  Since when does a trailer correctly convey what happens in a movie anyway?

    I am making a proper analogy. DC comics is for kids. I am sure they have kids who are still 40 and living at home and they must be the target audience.

    Many comics are not orientated towards kids.  Just pick one up and look at it.  Vulgar language? Nudity?  Graphic violence?  Complex themes and continuity?  No kiddie stuff.

    But maybe you are right that those 40-year-olds are just kids.  You can find them in the same comic/nerd store along with their 40-year-old adult-kid board-gaming brethren.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Have you seen this restaurant?  How do you know what it’s like??

    Its the worst place imaginable. Adults playing carnival games and winning tickets like kids at Shakeys? you gotta be kidding me!

    Yes I’ve seen it, been in it, played in it.  I’m not sure why you are so hung up about people having fun or enjoying themselves.

    Yes Star Wars and Star Trek are fine. I love them, because they represent either some place other than earth where the science could be plausible and plots that actually make sence. Kubrick 's 2001/2010 were great. Even planet of the apes was kinda plasible.

    Star Wars and Star Trek…._plausible?_LMAO! Ships in space that turn without visible thrusters all over their bodies, lasers/explosions that make sound in a vacuum, lasers that travel in sporadic segments and are slower than light, “The Force”, etc. etc., and that’s just Star Wars since I don’t watch Star Trek, which may be slightly more plausible.  Like all aliens are green, hot, and female and find William Shatner completely irresistible.  Yeah, that’s realism for ya.  And you do know that Star Wars is some amalgamation of Kurosawa’s “Hidden Fortress” and the Legend of King Arthur, don’t you?

    Can’t hate on Kubrick though.

    But a superhero with magic powers flying around in current real world and enemies on surf boards and giant green dudes running 500 MPH is total Bull**it. This ridiculous form of entertainment is sad excuse for film making.

    I don’t see that’s any reason to not enjoy it.  It’s fake.  So what?  So is Star Wars/Trek.

    The thing is with this comic is that the superheroes are very much not super.  Except one.  But that’s part of the whole theme.  It’s an antisuperhero-superhero comic book.

    Yes basically anything not made by DC comics and Marvel comics. I could do without Lord of the Rings too.

    I just don’t think movies can really do intricate stories, or long-running simple stories, justice.

    Also i hate the gore movies or Friday the 13th part 459 or any horror movie where they say “its based on a true story”

    I’ve watched them and don’t care for them…and really don’t see why they are created by the metric assload.  Do people really want to be this scared, usually by the same simple method, when there is enough to worry about?  Well, that’s their desire.

    I basically hate BS. Sorry.

    Valkyrie was good. Saw it 4 times.

    How can watch Valkyrie and not think Tom Cruise = BS?

    Slumdog Millionaire was good.

    I should see that one.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Many comics are not orientated towards kids.  Just pick one up and look at it.  Vulgar language? Nudity?  Graphic violence?  Complex themes and continuity?  No kiddie stuff.

    But maybe you are right that those 40-year-olds are just kids.  You can find them in the same comic/nerd store along with their 40-year-old adult-kid board-gaming brethren.  cheesy cheesy cheesy

    lets just say that the definition of kids can include ADULTS who are still children. The comics are indeed orientated to kids. Kids love violence and crazy things thrown in movies that make no sence because for them it proves that even if they are socially backward and misfits, they they too can fit in because the underlying gestalt of all these movies is that classic thing where: “everybody has some quality thats unique and if used in the correct and diligent manner can make you into a star, so if your a castoff but harvest your talent you will achieve great things” This psychology is so bankrupt, but its the common denominator in all these movies. For kids they see in their hero that they too can improve and they even imitate this in real life. I see this facade in like 2 seconds because i recognize its the same thing i saw on Sesame Street and Mr Rodgers and Comics just made it more “cool” and palatable for popular culture.

    You see the same theme in starwars, but at least it could be in the next 50,000 years so human evolution could account for most of its “science” but a running green dude at 500 MPH… im sorry its not for me.

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    I find this to be one of life’s small ironies.

    Books –- just words = Good.
    Fine Art (Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Pollock, Picaso) – just pictures = Good.

    Comics — words and pictures = Bad  :?

    Comics are a medium to tell stories just the way a painting or a book or a movie or a song or an opera or a symphony or a ballet or a board game or a video game is. They are no more and no less valid a way to tell a tale than any other.

    That’s my take on the matter at any rate.

    @U-505:

    I’m concerned that it won’t be true to the original story. My tolerance for creative liscense is directly proprtional to how much I like a particular story. I thoroughly enjoyed the Watchmen so my tolerance for them taking liberties with the movie will be non-existant.

    For those with similar tolerance issues I link to a Spoiler laden review – Spoilers!!! This dude is a huge fan of the comic and talks a lot about what is in and what is out and how it all works. Don’t click if you don’t want it all spelled out for you.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Everything has its place, but you got high art which is inspiring and based on timeless ideals and you got popular culture which is the most lowest common denominator so it can appeal to anything. In a world of today’s moral relativism i suppose its possible to think that way that everything is equal and nothing is ‘better’ than another.

    If the plot in one case was driven by the most sublime esoteric violence and crazy characters that were meant for the pages of a comic book ( hence appeal to somebody who just likes unbelievable fantasy plot devises at every turn) VS. A movie idea about a fictional story from a book or a historical event, you could have a more meaningful adaptation of the ideas and create higher art because you have to drive interest not by special effects and monsters and violence, but ideas crafted to make people think about their own situation.

    IN the comic book movie its the same plot device in every movie:

    Everybody can be flawed, but also has some greatness to be discovered. Try to have hope in this bad economy and you can rise above all the pressures and do great things. You can still be socially inept and in reprehensible, but these ‘secret’ qualities if used with good intentions, will still bring victory to the hour when you most need it.

    This is the plot for every movie and comic created by DC and Marvel. Its the type of thing that they teach children since they are so helpless its a form of encouragement for them to not worry about problems so they can escape reality. Thats the whole thing behind Batman, Gigantor, Giant Robot, the Hulk and all the others. I prefer they change poor behaviors and confront reality steadfast. For me they cant stay as they are and still do “good things” its not enough. All these movies seem to have this underlying psychology behind them and to me its misguided.

    so essentially it says “hey you fat 40 year old kid… go ahead and keep staying at moms house and play D&D, because you got your dreams of being a cage fighter and thats just fine since everybody has some quality they are born with that makes them greater than anybody else… for you its cage fighting”

    Qualities are not born, but learned from experience

    Superman was created during the depression to help people feel they are not at a loss of control and they too can have power. I just think all these comics are fine, but for marvel and DC to make them in movies one after another is just a parade of rubbish so they can tie into other products and gimmickry. I am sure watchmen will have some fast food tie in …probably taco bell…ala “The Watchmen burrito combo pack”

    Its feeding our minds with garbage and now its feeding fat dumb children with diabetes and creating a nation of idiots living at home at 40 with momma eating Burritos. All in the interest of $$$.  For me its something to be ignored. Its like a traveling circus of crackpot ideas where commercialism is spoon feeding you the most insane brain mush so we stay stupid and not worry about whats going on.

    but then again this is my opinion and i’m sticking with it.

  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    Okay, so IL won’t be joining the children and democratic rabble at Watchmen.

    To get back on topic is anybody else thinking of catching the film? Do we have other fans of the comic lurking about? Anyone else with recommendations for Jermo?


  • @frimmel:

    I find this to be one of life’s small ironies.

    Books –- just words = Good.
    Fine Art (Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Pollock, Picaso) – just pictures = Good.

    Comics — words and pictures = Bad   :?

    Comics are a medium to tell stories just the way a painting or a book or a movie or a song or an opera or a symphony or a ballet or a board game or a video game is. They are no more and no less valid a way to tell a tale than any other.

    That’s my take on the matter at any rate.

    I wholeheartedly agree.  Different times, different mediums.  I can see genius in Da Vinci and Moore.  I’m not saying they are the same thing, but they make me think and appreciate their work.

    For those with similar tolerance issues I link to a Spoiler laden review – Spoilers!!! This dude is a huge fan of the comic and talks a lot about what is in and what is out and how it all works. Don’t click if you don’t want it all spelled out for you.

    Thanks for that.  I read up to the point he mentioned “different ending.”  Just wanted to know how a diehard fan felt about the result.  Glad he was pleased.

    @Imperious:

    Many comics are not orientated towards kids.  Just pick one up and look at it.  Vulgar language? Nudity?  Graphic violence?  Complex themes and continuity?  No kiddie stuff.

    But maybe you are right that those 40-year-olds are just kids.  You can find them in the same comic/nerd store along with their 40-year-old adult-kid board-gaming brethren.  cheesy cheesy cheesy

    lets just say that the definition of kids can include ADULTS who are still children. The comics are indeed orientated to kids. Kids love violence and crazy things thrown in movies that make no sence because for them it proves that even if they are socially backward and misfits, they they too can fit in because the underlying gestalt of all these movies is that classic thing where: “everybody has some quality thats unique and if used in the correct and diligent manner can make you into a star, so if your a castoff but harvest your talent you will achieve great things” This psychology is so bankrupt, but its the common denominator in all these movies. For kids they see in their hero that they too can improve and they even imitate this in real life. I see this facade in like 2 seconds because i recognize its the same thing i saw on Sesame Street and Mr Rodgers and Comics just made it more “cool” and palatable for popular culture.

    You see the same theme in starwars, but at least it could be in the next 50,000 years so human evolution could account for most of its “science” but a running green dude at 500 MPH… im sorry its not for me.

    I’m sorry, you don’t have any idea, and it’s clear you haven’t read the comic.  IE, you don’t know what you are talking about.  Well, maybe you do, but it doesn’t apply to this.  But to rant on something you are ignorant about, attributing things to it that haven’t or won’t happen, and to argue against it with things that don’t relate (superman? tacobell?)…well I find it to be ironically childish.  You could simply say nothing instead.

    And everything you said can be applied to Luke Skywalker.  Oh, I forgot, it’s not his innate ability, it’s his “midichlorian count.”  :lol:  Can’t wait for science to give me some of that.

    If you ever get over your hubris to give this series a chance, you will find that it attacks ideas of good vs. bad, necessary vs. proper, humanity, etc. etc., all while remaining highly entertaining.  It just happens to be in the same format as Superman.  Surprisingly though, so is Star Wars/Trek in comparison to Gigantor, so perhaps they should be condemned too.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I’m sorry, you don’t have any idea, and it’s clear you haven’t read the comic.  IE, you don’t know what you are talking about.  Well, maybe you do, but it doesn’t apply to this.  But to rant on something you are ignorant about, attributing things to it that haven’t or won’t happen, and to argue against it with things that don’t relate (superman? tacobell?)…well I find it to be ironically childish.  You could simply say nothing instead.

    And everything you said can be applied to Luke Skywalker.  Oh, I forgot, it’s not his innate ability, it’s his “midichlorian count.”  cheesy  Can’t wait for science to give me some of that.

    If you ever get over your hubris to give this series a chance, you will find that it attacks ideas of good vs. bad, necessary vs. proper, humanity, etc. etc., all while remaining highly entertaining.  It just happens to be in the same format as Superman.  Surprisingly though, so is Star Wars/Trek in comparison to Gigantor, so perhaps they should be condemned too.

    eh no and no. I guess you out to defend comic books ( or the more positive name created out of PC culture  e.g. “Graphic Novel”–whatever)  I don’t see the need to be defensive about somebody’s opinion.  I’m just more into real stories or ones that are more thought provoking and less about ridiculous characters and situations that are not meant to be comedy but a serious plausible story.

    At least with Star Trek your faced with the far future and plausible quasi-scientific science. Star Wars is less ‘realistic’ but at least its from another part of the galaxy. Id say in its possible at least to use this form of reality as a basis of making stories because for the most part you see a clear connection that its something far in the future.

    Watchmen and all its inherents always take the real world and try to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.

    Look at Transformers. God that was nothing but an excuse to take a bad idea that was done already and use it as a merchandising vehicle: for Taco Bell, Chevy, Hasbro, and a whole host of toys catered to the under 25 crowd.

    The new Hulk movie i think made even less money that the first movie, but also because a plastic toy machine…pumping out countless trash.

    The result of this rubbish becomes very low form of art for movies. Its no wonder that of all these types of movies the volume of Academy awards awarded to them is so LOW as a ratio of the total inventory of these movies that are created. Watchmen wont win anything and is considered very low artistic merit. I don’t exactly use the Academy as a final score for artistic success, but its kinda a benchmark for the best movies. Almost always the movies i prefer are invariably the ones that ended up being the best recognized for the craft of movie making.

    I get it. trust me on this.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Imperious:

    eh no and no. I guess you out to defend comic books ( or the more positive name created out of PC culture  e.g. “Graphic Novel”–whatever)  I don’t see the need to be defensive about somebody’s opinion.  I’m just more into real stories or ones that are more thought provoking and less about ridiculous characters and situations that are not meant to be comedy but a serious plausible story.

    At least with Star Trek your faced with the far future and plausible quasi-scientific science. Star Wars is less ‘realistic’ but at least its from another part of the galaxy. Id say in its possible at least to use this form of reality as a basis of making stories because for the most part you see a clear connection that its something far in the future.

    Watchmen and all its inherents always take the real world and try to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.

    Look at Transformers. God that was nothing but an excuse to take a bad idea that was done already and use it as a merchandising vehicle: for Taco Bell, Chevy, Hasbro, and a whole host of toys catered to the under 25 crowd.

    The new Hulk movie i think made even less money that the first movie, but also because a plastic toy machine…pumping out countless trash.

    The result of this rubbish becomes very low form of art for movies. Its no wonder that of all these types of movies the volume of Academy awards awarded to them is so LOW as a ratio of the total inventory of these movies that are created. Watchmen wont win anything and is considered very low artistic merit. I don’t exactly use the Academy as a final score for artistic success, but its kinda a benchmark for the best movies. Almost always the movies i prefer are invariably the ones that ended up being the best recognized for the craft of movie making.

    I get it. trust me on this.

    Ozymandias has spoken.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIEtAAmrTm4&feature=related

    ask your self the following:

    how many of these people are doctors or lawyers? How many of these are self made men?

    how many of these types have by association with comics have basically thrown away their lives with basically staying a kid and not moving forward?

    Its just an excuse to remain a kid and not confront adult responsibilities. Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    now ask yourself this:

    which you prefer-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrNMPRriwc&feature=related

    or this-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKDtm-PchFI&feature=related

    if its not clear which is greater art and has a meaningful story and events, and which is something that is truly childish and will basically make your brain into mush.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Imperious:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIEtAAmrTm4&feature=related

    ask your self the following:

    how many of these people are doctors or lawyers? How many of these are self made men?

    how many of these types have by association with comics have basically thrown away their lives with basically staying a kid and not moving forward?

    Yes, but, how many of them care to judge themselves by your standards? Who says that your standards are the yardstick by which all people should be measured?

    Clearly, those people enjoy what they are doing enough to go out of their way to post it on YouTube so I doubt that they would consider it throwing away their lives.

    And you are taking an extreme example of comic book lovers and making them the archetype. By contrast, I can say that Hitler didn’t read comic books and look how he turned out.

    Its just an excuse to remain a kid and not confront adult responsibilities.

    I’m sure that those guys, as well as Jermofoot and Frimmel, work, pay their bills, and take care of their progeny. At the very least they have a place to live, own a computer and a camera, and appear well fed. I can’t say whether or not they try to ditch jury duty or commit criminal acts, but there aren’t too many more adult responsibilities that are required of them.

    Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    I disagree. I have seen many comics that deal with adult issues. Some even created with a specific adult issue in mind. The format by which a message is delivered is irrelevant as long as the message is successfully delivered.

    now ask yourself this:

    which you prefer-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrNMPRriwc&feature=related

    or this-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKDtm-PchFI&feature=related

    if its not clear which is greater art and has a meaningful story and events, and which is something that is truly childish and will basically make your brain into mush.

    I have an example for you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6BCf_b8GfE

    A robot, half man-half animal, and “living” scarecrow? Even without the flying monkeys it sounds like comic book garbage, doesn’t it? Except that particular movie won an academy award and was even nominated for “best picture” but lost to Gone With the Wind. Pretty distinguished company for a movie that , in your words, takes the real world and tries to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.


  • @Imperious:

    eh no and no. I guess you out to defend comic books ( or the more positive name created out of PC culture  e.g. “Graphic Novel”–whatever)  I don’t see the need to be defensive about somebody’s opinion.  I’m just more into real stories or ones that are more thought provoking and less about ridiculous characters and situations that are not meant to be comedy but a serious plausible story.

    At least with Star Trek your faced with the far future and plausible quasi-scientific science. Star Wars is less ‘realistic’ but at least its from another part of the galaxy. Id say in its possible at least to use this form of reality as a basis of making stories because for the most part you see a clear connection that its something far in the future.

    Watchmen and all its inherents always take the real world and try to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.

    Look at Transformers. God that was nothing but an excuse to take a bad idea that was done already and use it as a merchandising vehicle: for Taco Bell, Chevy, Hasbro, and a whole host of toys catered to the under 25 crowd.

    The new Hulk movie i think made even less money that the first movie, but also because a plastic toy machine…pumping out countless trash.

    The result of this rubbish becomes very low form of art for movies. Its no wonder that of all these types of movies the volume of Academy awards awarded to them is so LOW as a ratio of the total inventory of these movies that are created. Watchmen wont win anything and is considered very low artistic merit. I don’t exactly use the Academy as a final score for artistic success, but its kinda a benchmark for the best movies. Almost always the movies i prefer are invariably the ones that ended up being the best recognized for the craft of movie making.

    I get it. trust me on this.

    Ok, IL.  Let me start over.  You don’t get it.  I’m not trying to be rude, but you aren’t at all trying to understand. Read the series and maybe you will.  The Watchmen is not for kids.  It’s not aimed at them or has content appropriate for them.  It actually provokes thought.  That’s the whole reason I brought up this topic.

    Now, I’m not very much of a comics fan…sure I like them all right, but I haven’t seen all the Fantastic 4, Xmen, Spiderman, etc. movies.  I know they are a corruption of the original tales, which aren’t exactly stellar pieces of literature or storytelling, but it’s entertainment for some and that’s fine.  It’s not Stan Lee’s or any other comic producer’s fault that they don’t stand on their own.  Yet so many times you hear that the movie is never like the book.  The odds are against it.

    I’m not much of a comic fan, but I have an open mind and have explored the options recently.  I have found some stories that really resonate with me, or are just so on it that I can’t deny they are great pieces of work.  Maybe not the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, but they aren’t a Reader’s Digest read of the month either.  I’m pretty critical and for something to catch my attention and interest means a lot.

    So instead of making cheap jabs at a format in general, why don’t you take a peek at an acclaimed series and then speak about what you don’t like concerning it.  It’s not being made into a movie for nothing you know.

    BTW, Hulk is Marvel, and furthermore nothing like The Watchmen.  And that old crap you posted as an argument…BORING.  😉

    @U-505:

    Ozymandias has spoken.

    :lol:

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    ok Jermo. Thats fine we just have to disagree thats all. Its no big deal to me, But i felt perhaps my post needed elaboration so i posted a different version of my sentiment.

    Yes, but, how many of them care to judge themselves by your standards? Who says that your standards are the yardstick by which all people should be measured?

    Clearly, those people enjoy what they are doing enough to go out of their way to post it on YouTube so I doubt that they would consider it throwing away their lives.

    And you are taking an extreme example of comic book lovers and making them the archetype. By contrast, I can say that Hitler didn’t read comic books and look how he turned out.

    Dude: nobody is making any of the claims you mention. I am just making my opinion and i am not even commenting on anybody in here in terms of standards of taste. I have seen these people in their feeding frenzy before. You cant make blanket statements and claim everybody fits the mold, but easily many of them do. For example you don’t find many lawyers playing with Tonka toys, but you do find that many of the older types still living at home DO get into comics and the kinds of things that are not really very mature, but interests that you may find a 14 year old having. Perhaps most of the the people who do buy and read comics are doctors and CEO’s but i don’t think they are. I think they fall in the lower classes.

    I’m sure that those guys, as well as Jermofoot and Frimmel, work, pay their bills, and take care of their progeny. At the very least they have a place to live, own a computer and a camera, and appear well fed. I can’t say whether or not they try to ditch jury duty or commit criminal acts, but there aren’t too many more adult responsibilities that are required of them.

    where do you get the idea that i’m commenting on Jermo and Frimmel ? Why even bring them up?  I not even talking about jury duty or criminals. why even bring that up?  Im just talking about a set of behaviors that are usually in the realm of kids and adults and how some kinds of movies like the comic book adaptations are a lower form of art usually for the former and not the latter.

    i said:

    Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    I disagree. I have seen many comics that deal with adult issues. Some even created with a specific adult issue in mind. The format by which a message is delivered is irrelevant as long as the message is successfully delivered.

    Find then proof that the comic book movies deliver this message more appropriately and effective than what you would find in a serious movie say like “Their will be blood”  I think all the gimmickry and action will get in the way and the message will be very deluded. Basically if you got a movie about the ravages of Cancer for a family, your gonna be less effective if you got the Hulk as the father with Cancer, then with Tom Hanks in Philadelphia.  The message as you say is not possibly delivered with the kind of sentimentality and force as some stupid dude that turns green when he gets mad.

    sorry but it don’t work that way.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    A robot, half man-half animal, and “living” scarecrow? Even without the flying monkeys it sounds like comic book garbage, doesn’t it? Except that particular movie won an academy award and was even nominated for “best picture” but lost to Gone With the Wind. Pretty distinguished company for a movie that , in your words, takes the real world and tries to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.

    thats not a comic book movie, so your point is?  Also, i didn’t win the award so that kinda proved my point. Remember the movie was Dorothy’s dream and at the end she wakes up. If your telling me that watchmen is some kind of  dream sequence, then im looking for planes, my name is Tatu and i’m living on fantasy island.

    I am only talking about:  c-o-m-i-c  b-o-o-k-s  m-a-d-e  i-n-t-o-  m-o-v-i-e-s

    besides its a musical and everything is deliberately in a fairytale land.

    Watchmen is basically the real world, present day earth with crazy events occurring. Most of the comic book movies are. And its easy to make plots and movies this way because the variance on what is plausible is so wide it shows the art form in these movies very poorly.

  • 2007 AAR League

    @Imperious:

    Yes, but, how many of them care to judge themselves by your standards? Who says that your standards are the yardstick by which all people should be measured?

    Clearly, those people enjoy what they are doing enough to go out of their way to post it on YouTube so I doubt that they would consider it throwing away their lives.

    And you are taking an extreme example of comic book lovers and making them the archetype. By contrast, I can say that Hitler didn’t read comic books and look how he turned out.

    Dude: nobody is making any of the claims you mention. I am just making my opinion and i am not even commenting on anybody in here in terms of standards of taste. I have seen these people in their feeding frenzy before. You cant make blanket statements and claim everybody fits the mold, but easily many of them do. For example you don’t find many lawyers playing with Tonka toys, but you do find that many of the older types still living at home DO get into comics and the kinds of things that are not really very mature, but interests that you may find a 14 year old having. Perhaps most of the the people who do buy and read comics are doctors and CEO’s but i don’t think they are. I think they fall in the lower classes.

    You just did judge them based on your own set of standards. By asking how many of them were doctors, lawyers, and self-made, you made it clear that if they didn’t aspire to or become one of those or a similar profession, that they were, by your standards and your words, “lower class”.

    And my suggestion was that maybe they didn’t feel the need to classify themselves in your terms. They appear to be happy doing what they are doing whether you or anybody else likes it or not and so I doubted that they would consider what they are doing to be, according to you, throwing away their lives.

    If those aren’t standards, then I don’t know what are.

    @Imperious:

    I’m sure that those guys, as well as Jermofoot and Frimmel, work, pay their bills, and take care of their progeny. At the very least they have a place to live, own a computer and a camera, and appear well fed. I can’t say whether or not they try to ditch jury duty or commit criminal acts, but there aren’t too many more adult responsibilities that are required of them.

    where do you get the idea that i’m commenting on Jermo and Frimmel ? Why even bring them up?  I not even talking about jury duty or criminals. why even bring that up?  Im just talking about a set of behaviors that are usually in the realm of kids and adults and how some kinds of movies like the comic book adaptations are a lower form of art usually for the former and not the latter.

    Well if you aren’t talking about Jermofoot and Frimmel, then do me a favor and clarify these statements:

    Its just an excuse to remain a kid and not confront adult responsibilities. Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    The second sentence suggests that you think comics, or more to the point, adults who read comics and watch comics based movies are using them as an excuse to remain a kid and not confront adult responsibilities in addition to having mush for brains as you suggested earlier. And since Jermofoot and Frimmel are both adults who read comics and watch comic based movies, I made the connection.

    Come on, now. Either you have trouble making the most basic logical inferrences or you’re just playing games here. I said that I can’t tell whether or not those guys in the video were avoiding the pretty common “adult responsibilities” of not being a criminal and not ditching jury duty but, it looked to me that most of their adult responsibilities were being met.

    @Imperious:

    i said:

    Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    I disagree. I have seen many comics that deal with adult issues. Some even created with a specific adult issue in mind. The format by which a message is delivered is irrelevant as long as the message is successfully delivered.

    Find then proof that the comic book movies deliver this message more appropriately and effective than what you would find in a serious movie say like “Their will be blood”  I think all the gimmickry and action will get in the way and the message will be very deluded. Basically if you got a movie about the ravages of Cancer for a family, your gonna be less effective if you got the Hulk as the father with Cancer, then with Tom Hanks in Philadelphia.  The message as you say is not possibly delivered with the kind of sentimentality and force as some stupid dude that turns green when he gets mad.

    sorry but it don’t work that way.

    I don’t have to find proof that comic book movies deliver the message. You said “comics should be for kids” not “comic book movies should be for kids”. I said comics deal with adult issues and I’m right, but there really is no point in me giving you proof because you don’t read comics.

    But, just so you don’t have to turn your brain to mush by reading the Watchmen or watching the movie, I’ll tell you of a couple issues that it deals with. First, it lets you decide whether vigilantism is acceptable and then the main one is: Is telling the truth always the right thing to do, no matter how hard it is for people to swallow, or are there situations where keeping a secret is better for the common good?

    And why would I use the Hulk as my main reference? The only message the Hulk delivers is that brute force can sometimes be just as detructive as the problem you are trying to solve with it. It might be surprising to learn that there are quite a few more comics than just the Hulk and Watchmen.

    Plus, I think Tom Hanks was a gay man with AIDS fighting for his civil rights in “Philadelphia”, not a father with cancer. I didn’t see it.

    @Imperious:

    A robot, half man-half animal, and “living” scarecrow? Even without the flying monkeys it sounds like comic book garbage, doesn’t it? Except that particular movie won an academy award and was even nominated for “best picture” but lost to Gone With the Wind. Pretty distinguished company for a movie that , in your words, takes the real world and tries to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.

    thats not a comic book movie, so your point is?  Also, i didn’t win the award so that kinda proved my point. Remember the movie was Dorothy’s dream and at the end she wakes up. If your telling me that watchmen is some kind of  dream sequence, then im looking for planes, my name is Tatu and i’m living on fantasy island.

    I didn’t say it was a comic book movie. I said it sounds like a comic book. The types of characters(robots, man-beasts, etc…), the story, flying monkeys. All of which would easily find a home in comic books.

    And just because it didn’t win best picture, doesn’t prove your point at all. If you think that the only movies worth watching are the ones that won best picture then you are missing out on a lot of quality viewing.

    I am only talking about:  c-o-m-i-c  b-o-o-k-s  m-a-d-e  i-n-t-o-  m-o-v-i-e-s

    You have been talking at length about how comics(not just comic based movies) are strictly for kids, they have no message, and how much disdain you have for adults who, according to you,are lower class because they choose to turn their brains to mush by reading and watching them. So, no, you have not ONLY been talking about comic book movies. You’re hating for no reason.

    Remember the movie was Dorothy’s dream and at the end she wakes up. If your telling me that watchmen is some kind of  dream sequence, then im looking for planes, my name is Tatu and i’m living on fantasy island.

    besides its a musical and everything is deliberately in a fairytale land.

    The reason I brought up The Wizard of Oz is not only because of it’s resemblance to comic book stories and whatnot, but it’s also because it’s messages don’t punch you in the face like in other movies. They are layered beneath the surface. The Hulk is a poor example of a comic book movie with an underlying message while, conversely, Watchmen is a good example of a comic book movie with an underlying message.

    Now, I’m not saying that the Hulk movie or even the Watchmen movie will come close to the quality of The Wizard of Oz, but what I am saying is that as long as you continue to refuse to take comic books and their derivative movies at anything more than face value then if there are any messages beneath the surface, you will never see them.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Quote from: Imperious Leader on March 04, 2009, 05:23:18 pm
    Quote
    Yes, but, how many of them care to judge themselves by your standards? Who says that your standards are the yardstick by which all people should be measured?

    Clearly, those people enjoy what they are doing enough to go out of their way to post it on YouTube so I doubt that they would consider it throwing away their lives.

    And you are taking an extreme example of comic book lovers and making them the archetype. By contrast, I can say that Hitler didn’t read comic books and look how he turned out.

    Dude: nobody is making any of the claims you mention. I am just making my opinion and i am not even commenting on anybody in here in terms of standards of taste. I have seen these people in their feeding frenzy before. You cant make blanket statements and claim everybody fits the mold, but easily many of them do. For example you don’t find many lawyers playing with Tonka toys, but you do find that many of the older types still living at home DO get into comics and the kinds of things that are not really very mature, but interests that you may find a 14 year old having. Perhaps most of the the people who do buy and read comics are doctors and CEO’s but i don’t think they are. I think they fall in the lower classes.

    You just did judge them based on your own set of standards. By asking how many of them were doctors, lawyers, and self-made, you made it clear that if they didn’t aspire to or become one of those or a similar profession, that they were, by your standards and your words, “lower class”.

    Talking about the plurality of these types that love the comics. In every group you have a ratio of good and bad, but if you inventory the entire population you will find 50%+ of these types as i have described… IMO.

    And my suggestion was that maybe they didn’t feel the need to classify themselves in your terms. They appear to be happy doing what they are doing whether you or anybody else likes it or not and so I doubted that they would consider what they are doing to be, according to you, throwing away their lives.

    I am not commenting on their behavior, but rather clarifying my own point of view for others who asked. Now you have my opinion….move on.

    If those aren’t standards, then I don’t know what are.

    not working sorry.

    Quote from: Imperious Leader on March 04, 2009, 05:23:18 pm

    Quote
    I’m sure that those guys, as well as Jermofoot and Frimmel, work, pay their bills, and take care of their progeny. At the very least they have a place to live, own a computer and a camera, and appear well fed. I can’t say whether or not they try to ditch jury duty or commit criminal acts, but there aren’t too many more adult responsibilities that are required of them.

    where do you get the idea that i’m commenting on Jermo and Frimmel ? Why even bring them up?  I not even talking about jury duty or criminals. why even bring that up?  Im just talking about a set of behaviors that are usually in the realm of kids and adults and how some kinds of movies like the comic book adaptations are a lower form of art usually for the former and not the latter.

    Well if you aren’t talking about Jermofoot and Frimmel, then do me a favor and clarify these statements:

    Quote
    Its just an excuse to remain a kid and not confront adult responsibilities. Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    The second sentence suggests that you think comics, or more to the point, adults who read comics and watch comics based movies are using them as an excuse to remain a kid and not confront adult responsibilities in addition to having mush for brains as you suggested earlier. And since Jermofoot and Frimmel are both adults who read comics and watch comic based movies, I made the connection.

    Sorry you made the connection, but your mistaken. I don’t think in black or white  ( e.g. I would never say 100% of everybody who likes comics is a dork), I am looking at things in general as a distillery of behaviors of the types i have described. General terms. I comment on the whole process of what these movies do for society in general and the behaviors i have experienced with most of these types.  I think thats pretty clear.

    Quote from: Imperious Leader on March 04, 2009, 05:23:18 pm
    i said:
    Quote
    Comics should be for kids because by and large they deal with kid type of issues.

    Quote
    I disagree. I have seen many comics that deal with adult issues. Some even created with a specific adult issue in mind. The format by which a message is delivered is irrelevant as long as the message is successfully delivered.

    Find then proof that the comic book movies deliver this message more appropriately and effective than what you would find in a serious movie say like “Their will be blood”  I think all the gimmickry and action will get in the way and the message will be very deluded. Basically if you got a movie about the ravages of Cancer for a family, your gonna be less effective if you got the Hulk as the father with Cancer, then with Tom Hanks in Philadelphia.  The message as you say is not possibly delivered with the kind of sentimentality and force as some stupid dude that turns green when he gets mad.

    sorry but it don’t work that way.

    Then we have to just disagree.

    I don’t have to find proof that comic book movies deliver the message. You said “comics should be for kids” not “comic book movies should be for kids”. I said comics deal with adult issues and I’m right, but there really is no point in me giving you proof because you don’t read comics.

    but i did read comics… when i was a kid like 10. now things are different. So the point is?

    But, just so you don’t have to turn your brain to mush by reading the Watchmen or watching the movie, I’ll tell you of a couple issues that it deals with. First, it lets you decide whether vigilantism is acceptable and then the main one is: Is telling the truth always the right thing to do, no matter how hard it is for people to swallow, or are there situations where keeping a secret is better for the common good?

    Well thats certainly something my mon told me to do when i was 6 years old. Lesson learned already. Thanks

    And why would I use the Hulk as my main reference? The only message the Hulk delivers is that brute force can sometimes be just as detructive as the problem you are trying to solve with it. It might be surprising to learn that there are quite a few more comics than just the Hulk and Watchmen.

    I can use any reference that is a comic book material. The question is why not use the Hulk? Its choice stuck in my mind because it was so ridiculous like Transformers and that other winner Rocketman.

    Plus, I think Tom Hanks was a gay man with AIDS fighting for his civil rights in “Philadelphia”, not a father with cancer. I didn’t see it.

    OK then substitute the analogy with the word: “aids” in both examples to help you understand the point.

    Quote from: Imperious Leader on March 04, 2009, 05:47:20 pm
    Quote
    A robot, half man-half animal, and “living” scarecrow? Even without the flying monkeys it sounds like comic book garbage, doesn’t it? Except that particular movie won an academy award and was even nominated for “best picture” but lost to Gone With the Wind. Pretty distinguished company for a movie that , in your words, takes the real world and tries to fit the most audacious unbelievable situations that only a child can enjoy… a 40 year old child living at home with momma.

    thats not a comic book movie, so your point is?  Also, i didn’t win the award so that kinda proved my point. Remember the movie was Dorothy’s dream and at the end she wakes up. If your telling me that watchmen is some kind of  dream sequence, then im looking for planes, my name is Tatu and i’m living on fantasy island.

    I didn’t say it was a comic book movie. I said it sounds like a comic book. The types of characters(robots, man-beasts, etc…), the story, flying monkeys. All of which would easily find a home in comic books.

    Yes but i did i started my point of view by blasting these and only these types of movies. If you want my opinion on Musicals that are based on a dream make another thread.

    And just because it didn’t win best picture, doesn’t prove your point at all. If you think that the only movies worth watching are the ones that won best picture then you are missing out on a lot of quality viewing.

    It proved the point that of the total inventory of these movies the % of them that win academy awards for high art in film is extremely low as compared to serious movies for adults with normal stories going on.

    Quote
    I am only talking about:  c-o-m-i-c  b-o-o-k-s  m-a-d-e  i-n-t-o-  m-o-v-i-e-s

    You have been talking at length about how comics(not just comic based movies) are strictly for kids, they have no message, and how much disdain you have for adults who, according to you,are lower class because they choose to turn their brains to mush by reading and watching them. So, no, you have not ONLY been talking about comic book movies. You’re hating for no reason.

    I feel sorry for them, hate is your added value word you wish to bring here. Again im just having my opinion.

    Quote
    Remember the movie was Dorothy’s dream and at the end she wakes up. If your telling me that watchmen is some kind of  dream sequence, then im looking for planes, my name is Tatu and i’m living on fantasy island.

    Quote
    besides its a musical and everything is deliberately in a fairytale land.

    The reason I brought up The Wizard of Oz is not only because of it’s resemblance to comic book stories and whatnot, but it’s also because it’s messages don’t punch you in the face like in other movies. They are layered beneath the surface. The Hulk is a poor example of a comic book movie with an underlying message while, conversely, Watchmen is a good example of a comic book movie with an underlying message.

    Thats fine. If you say the Hulk is not a comic book movie or a weak one thats your opinion. I don’t care really about the hulk.

    Now, I’m not saying that the Hulk movie or even the Watchmen movie will come close to the quality of The Wizard of Oz, but what I am saying is that as long as you continue to refuse to take comic books and their derivative movies at anything more than face value then if there are any messages beneath the surface, you will never see them.

    The message in OZ is a much more powerful message and done with high level art. Its not a special effects driven movie, even though it has it. IN most of the comic book movies its all about some explosions and stuff about somebody beating up or destroying another being. Its a plot device in all comic book movies to keep kids entertained while they eat at Taco Bell latter and drink and eat unhealthy food, which is the ancillary effect that these movies have in society… the total gluttony of mind and body.

    But thats my opinion and don’t fight it just move on .


  • We gamers and comic book readers around here appreciate your generalizations, we really do.  Broad strokes and narrow minds.  I mean my D&D group contains 2 union pipefitters, an engineer, 2 teachers and a principal.  So trapped in our own fantasy worlds we can’t raise families of our own or hold down jobs.  In my younger days I worked for him a few days a week and ya, he had two lawyers who were subscribers.  He has a few customers who still smoke pot and live at home too but that’s society as a whole.  You’re drawing from what experience?  I knew a man who was a gun nut, loved nothing more than historical wars but spent all of his time painting miniature tanks and replica models of zeroes.  He went to civil war reenactments and cooked in a restaurant.  He lived at home, too.

    Watchmen was the only graphic novel to appear on Time’s 2005 list of “the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to the present”.  Go ahead, toss it under that blanket, you’ll miss out on a fantasy world that raises so many “real-world” questions you’re so fond of.  Well enjoy the story’s complexity and grittiness.  So you classify this in with your stupid, angry, green men and some of the institutions that help YOU define taste will tell us what we already know, it’s a good piece of literature, illustrated or not.

    As for the movie itself guys & gals, I saw it and it’s fiercely loyal but just fails to hit that same peak the novel did.  Rorschach is one of my favorite characters of all time.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    In every population where a generalization is made some (but fewer than 50%) will not fall in the behavior pattern as i have outlined.  Its like saying most Americans speak English, knowing fully well that some of them cant even say hello in English.

    Its also obvious to me that their is absolutely no reason to feel defensive about my opinion, unless you feel some truth to it on your own because in my experience when that happens it could mean that the value of this opinion is making some resonance. If it was false i suspect nobody would care to even discuss it. But i have to answer so many questions that i wonder.

    This entire discussion was to me entirely unnecessary, because I only made two main points:

    1. The artistic value of these ‘comic book movies’ cannot conceive to produce anything but low level entertainment… the entertainment of popular culture which in this age is entirely commercialized to the point where its only sustaining public satiation for gluttony and not having much value in terms of sustaining more profound meaning and message.

    2. Most of the people who like these movies are kids and young people, and the shear propensity of these movies in the last 10 years can modify behavior in people, because frankly movies DO influence people for better or worse. Most of these movies involve stories that involve somebody committing violence and lots of action and special effects. I just have the opinion that movies of this type cant possibly produce the types of feelings and emotions that can be evoked by a serious movie…“Lawrence of Arabia” the “English Patient”, because they are so contrived and contain so many situations that rely on action plot devices to keep kids and 40 year old adults who act like kids entertained.

    Also, the types of behaviors can vary, but it seems to be at least that the contrived nature of the stories (e.g. the fantasy aspect) promotes in young adults ( and some cases 40 olds living at home) some kind of behaviors that do not tend to lead to overall success in life.

    Now if we were talking about an animated movie, Im also quite sure that as a population that the majority of these movies are also for kids, but some of them contain adult themes, but again as with comic book movies the level of message possible and the craft of movie making ( outside the craft of animation) does not do too well.

    If we were talking about movies that have talking dogs, Im sure someone could say:

    “hey i love Beverly Hills Chihuahua!
    Its dealing with the most profound issues of the day and and how dare you have an opinion where you say that DOG movies cant convey the most incredible sentiments possible… and BTW i am a Doctor and have a Beverly Hills Chihuahua bumper sticker on the back of my S600 Mercedes Benz.”

    Somehow i think this is less common in the total population of people who love DOG movies. What is more common in adults who really love DOG movies would be basically not very successful people.

    But then again success can be argued as bad or good depending on who has the opinion.


  • @Imperious:

    I boycott all movies that have to resort to using ideas from comic books for a plot.

    Its so ridiculous to me to even have movies like this unless your like 8 years old. I used to watch Ultraman and Giant Robot and Gigantor but i don’t need to have some bloke waste 200 million and make some ubermodern interpretation of a childish idea. Its like going to Dave and Busters  ( Chuck E Cheese for adults) and acting like an idiot winning those stupid yellow tickets so i can buy more Chinese finger pulls. I might as well start wearing a bib and go ga ga.

    This fails on so many levels. To be a snob is one thing. To be a snob in the capacity of a forum moderator for a gaming website devoted to a game that perhaps 1% of the population has heard of is pathetically hilarious.

    The head of my gaming group is a GS15 engineer working at Edward’s who has about 20 grand in comics. You want to see unemployed fat guys who are wasting their lives? Ever host an A&A party?  :lol:  Or been a member of a hardcore raiding guild in EQ or WOW? Or been to an MTG tournament?

    I personally can’t stand comics and Watchmen sucked (saw it last night). But hey, to each his own, right? Who am I to judge? One man’s “Watchmen” is another man’s
    “The Professional” (which was equally ridiculous, but didn’t suck).

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The head of my gaming group is a GS15 engineer working at Edward’s who has about 20 grand in comics. You want to see unemployed fat guys who are wasting their lives? Ever host an A&A party?  cheesy  Or been a member of a hardcore raiding guild in EQ or WOW? Or been to an MTG tournament?

    As stated like the 50 times before, in every population you have some who are well off, but you have not made any point other than you “know somebody who buys comic books and latter sells them for profit”  I am not talking about people who collect junk and sell it back when its considered nostalgic. I do play in Tournaments and play tournament Chess, Poker and AA and other games. I don’t play Magic: the marketing tool for artificially collectible pieces of paper and that have artificially created inventories making them “collectible” I did something like this when i was a kid having Garbage Pail kids cards and the wacky something back in the mid 70’s. After that i realized it was stupid to dwell on such things.

    I personally can’t stand comics and Watchmen sucked (saw it last night). But hey, to each his own, right? Who am I to judge? One man’s “Watchmen” is another man’s
    “The Professional” (which was equally ridiculous, but didn’t suck).

    How is the hell is it a problem for you for others to have their own opinion?  Anybody can “judge” just like you have.  Thats the whole point of a forum.  I suppose its also an opinion that you too may judge my opinion, but you have not really raised any new points.

    To be a snob in the capacity of a forum moderator for a gaming website devoted to a game that perhaps 1% of the population has heard of is pathetically hilarious.

    Well is we want to philosophize the value of gaming in society, i have other views on this, but to bring it up to support some parallel value that because we play these games, that watching and enjoying comic book movies to the point where the person is totally immersed in comics at the ripe age of 40…is a real stretch.

    Poker and Chess  ( e.g. games) can be professions by some accounts, while watching comic book movies and loathing in filth and focusing the notion of happiness on this are not the same; thus your argument falters.

    playing Magic does have some money making potential  ( they do pay cash prizes) , but its a transitory activity . In 40 years they will still have Poker and Chess while Magic will go back to a dark corner.

    Magic is just like POGS. Both are scams for companies to make a buck and siphon off kids discretionary income. Eventually the stuff for these games will get dumped in the trash can like old clothes.

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