• From MSNBC.com
    “A Palestinian wearing a bomb belt blew himself up Thursday on a Jerusalem city bus packed with high school students and soldiers, killing 11 passengers and wounding dozens in a morning rush hour suicide attack. There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but Israeli officials said the assailant came from Bethlehem, which raised the possibility Israel might retake the West Bank town from which it withdrew in August.”

    This looks like a legitimate military target for the Palestinians. Why does the IDF use public buses to transport troops? I keep hearing about these bus bombings where soldiers are sharing the bus with civilians. The IDF should stop using public transportation to transport its troops.
    :-?


  • That was me. The system logged me out just before it posted my message :evil: That’s twice now!!!


  • Well, the effect (wether wished or not) is the same as Israeli forces going after palestinian fighters: Civilians die every time!
    There is no excuse for this kind of bloodshed from either side. Both defend what they think is their legal homeland.
    I really hope that the candidate of the laborparty wins the election in Israel.


  • Sadly, that will not happen


  • Not a legit military target.

    A Legit Military target would be like, Guy blows himself up in barracks, kills 14. A Bus is a civilian target.

    The Palestinians would be a hell of a lot better off if they attacked Military targets instead of buses.


  • @Yanny:

    The Palestinians would be a hell of a lot better off if they attacked Military targets instead of buses.

    Well, there “cause” in the eyes of the rest of the world would probably be a lot better off, but I’m not sure they would be. They’re gonna get their asses kicked by the IDF either way.

    Regardless, the violence that Palestinians are using will not get them anywhere. They are still too primative and need to realize that the Israeli’s are not simply going to “leave.”


  • @F_alk:

    Well, the effect (wether wished or not) is the same as Israeli forces going after palestinian fighters: Civilians die every time!
    There is no excuse for this kind of bloodshed from either side. Both defend what they think is their legal homeland.
    I really hope that the candidate of the laborparty wins the election in Israel.

    Well, I odnt know if the labour party winning is that good of an idea. The last labour party prime minister’s attempt at peace became a catalyst for the Second Intifada, in which now the Palestinains have begun to claim that what he offered wasn’t sincere. No matter what you try and give them, they’ll keep coming up with an excuse as to why it is a bad deal for them.

    There’s also another problem with giving hte Palestinains their own state: the fact that they are living in such bad conditions that some people have predicted that they’ll fight a civil war if they get their own country. The current corrupt leadership had to somehow be ousted.


  • @Yanny:

    The Palestinians would be a hell of a lot better off if they attacked Military targets instead of buses.

    your right, ther would be no bad press


  • Regardless, the violence that Palestinians are using will not get them anywhere. They are still too primative and need to realize that the Israeli’s are not simply going to “leave.”

    Well, i think it’s an evidence than Palestinians kamikaze are not helping the cause of their people. But saying they are primitive is very exagerated, there was less hate towards the jews in palestine than in europe some time ago, and israeli governement is’nt clean either. There is just not ONE people faulty in this conlict, sure you can think one is a little more guilty than the other, but they are still all guilty. There is no excuse for kamikaze nor for israeli attack.

    No matter what you try and give them, they’ll keep coming up with an excuse as to why it is a bad deal for them.

    Same thing for the Israeli.


  • @EmuGod:

    There’s also another problem with giving hte Palestinains their own state: the fact that they are living in such bad conditions that some people have predicted that they’ll fight a civil war if they get their own country. The current corrupt leadership had to somehow be ousted.

    Both countries are in a bad condition. If they don’t stop their bloodshed, then they will really soon be fighting for a wasted strip of land (with the main reason for the economic collapse in the palestinian terretories coming from the israeli blockades and not allowing palestinians to leave their towns/villages.) Israel fights not only with military means(though the economic means are harder to see).
    For the leadership…. i think whoever is corrupt or a religious fundamentalist in any government should not be allowed to rule. That includes ultra-orthodox Israelis!


  • That’s why the ultra-orthodox aren’t in control of the government. BTW, Israel isn’t a religious country. In fact, there are some elements about it that are more secular than the USA.

    Oh BTW, FinsterniS, I’d like you to name one for Israel becvause if wwe start listing how the Palestinians keep on complaining no matter what they are offered, we’d have a whole list…


  • Emu, then what do you call Sharon?


  • Oh BTW, FinsterniS, I’d like you to name one for Israel becvause if wwe start listing how the Palestinians keep on complaining no matter what they are offered, we’d have a whole list…

    It’s easy to say they are complaining, they did’nt get real chance for their indepence with the Ottam Empire, with the Brits nor with Israel, it’s their lands at least as much as the lands of the israeli. And don’t say the israeli did’nt complain in 47, or when they say palestinians are too disorganized, just after destroying their infrastucture.


  • Well, i think it’s an evidence than Palestinians kamikaze are not helping the cause of their people. But saying they are primitive is very exagerated, there was less hate towards the jews in palestine than in europe some time ago, and israeli governement is’nt clean either. There is just not ONE people faulty in this conlict, sure you can think one is a little more guilty than the other, but they are still all guilty. There is no excuse for kamikaze nor for israeli attack.

    Maybe I should clarify myself. :-?
    By “primitive”, I’m referring to their un-called-for use of suicide bombers and acts of terrorism, rather than directing that energy to solve their problem peacefully. I’m not even sure that was the right word to choose.

    I’m sure there’s not just one people guilty in this conflict, but when push comes to shove, I’d be more apt to sympathize with the Israeli’s. They DO have a right to defend themselves and retaliate against acts of terrorism, just as the US does. If Native Americans started murdering regular citizens, do you think we would actually consider giving them their land back? C’mon, this is modern day. Border’s change and so do countries. The Palestinians have had plenty of opportunities to live a decent life, but through the rotten leadership they’ve gotten, they’ve been getting the short end of the stick by being led by Arafat.


  • Exactly why this situation is spinning out of control. The Palestinians have bad leadership, who benefit from increased conflict. The Israelis are too (for lack of a better word) ignorant to realise that they are the only ones who can stop this. I don’t support what the Israelis or Palestinians are doing, however I know that it is Israel’s responsibility to end what they started.


  • @Yanny:

    Exactly why this situation is spinning out of control. The Palestinians have bad leadership, who benefit from increased conflict. The Israelis are too (for lack of a better word) ignorant to realise that they are the only ones who can stop this. I don’t support what the Israelis or Palestinians are doing, however I know that it is Israel’s responsibility to end what they started.

    of course this may be applied to the American’s/western world’s (we can only blame the British for so much . . .) dealing with the middle east . . . .


  • Well, I’m not so sure about that. :-?
    In order to solve a conflict peacefully, both sides have to be willing to proceed without violence. We’ve tried the peaceful way with Saddam, and I think we all know how far that got.

    Besides, Saddam is funding Palestinian terrorists, big time. Taking out Saddam will also cause a major hit against Arafat.


  • Heres the problem:

    The Palestinians kill 3 Israelis
    The Israelis respond and kill 5 Palestinians
    The Palestinians respond and kill 10 Israelis…

    And so on.

    It gives the Palestinian radicals cause to keep killing. And it empowers the Israeli radicals to keep killing more Palestinians than Israelis are killed. Its a cycle, and if the Israelis don’t take it upon themselves to realise that they are the only ones who can stop it, it is going to culminate with the Palestinians getting a stray Nuke and obliterating Tel-Aviv from the map.


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    Well, I’m not so sure about that. :-?
    In order to solve a conflict peacefully, both sides have to be willing to proceed without violence. We’ve tried the peaceful way with Saddam, and I think we all know how far that got.

    Besides, Saddam is funding Palestinian terrorists, big time. Taking out Saddam will also cause a major hit against Arafat.

    wow.

    that’s comforting. Glad to know the next one to step up in Iraq is such a moderate.


  • Iraq funding Palestinians terrorists? Well if thats cause for war, Saudi Arabia should kiss it’s ass goodbye.


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    C’mon, this is modern day. Border’s change and so do countries. The Palestinians have had plenty of opportunities to live a decent life, but through the rotten leadership they’ve gotten, they’ve been getting the short end of the stick by being led by Arafat.

    Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.
    For the plenty of opportunities: …hmmmpf…


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    Well, I’m not so sure about that. :-?
    In order to solve a conflict peacefully, both sides have to be willing to proceed without violence.

    Unfortunately, no side seems to be willing to be peaceful.


  • Iraq funding Palestinians terrorists? Well if thats cause for war, Saudi Arabia should kiss it’s ass goodbye.

    Hey, I didn’t say Saudi Arabia was any less innocent. And, Yes, funding terrorism is definetely cause for war. One step at a time, however. As far as I’m concerned, you are a terrorist if you’re funding terrorism.

    Unfortunately, no side seems to be willing to be peaceful.

    That’s my point. 😛

    Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.
    For the plenty of opportunities: …hmmmpf…

    Well, sort of. :-? The US just called for full recognition of a Palestinian state by the Israeli’s…


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    Borders change… except the border is one of the US friends, allies or lackeys… then it won’t change, and the countries leadership won’t change as long as they keep “being humble” to the US.

    Well, sort of. :-? The US just called for full recognition of a Palestinian state by the Israeli’s…

    Well, that would only be following UN-resolutions, wouldn’t it ? I mean, defying UN-resolutions repeatedly brought us close to war in that area……


  • I’d like to say that this conflict receives far too much media attention.
    I don’t really support either side, I don’t know much about what their fighting about.
    I will say that it must be hard to negotiate with people who are willing to strap bombs to their bodies and throw themselves at crowds.
    I far as I’m concerned, people like that just want to kill.
    Killing is all they want and they justify it by perverting the Islamic religion.

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