How to take Karelia and keep it

We also have a different House rule that has proven to be very interesting:

We use the Chinese Setup from 1942 but instead of Suiyuan having 2 Inf, we add an additional Inf in Yunnan (thous having 3 Inf 1 Fig)…

The Japanese player can still opt to got for it with 3 Inf 2 Fig, but it is an evenly and very costly battle.

Having more boots in China also makes the abundance of Japanese transports in 1941 less of a problem since the Japanese player has to send a bit more Infantry to China to counter them.

We found this setup to be way more interesting and also historically accurate because China was a pain in the ass for Japan and it shouldn’t be that easy for Japan to defeat them.

All things considered, weighing the options, if I have ANY chance of holding the Island for at least one round OR diverting enemy forces from another objective to take the island back, I’ll take the island.  Especially if it’s an NO and hurts the enemy that much further.

Otherwise, I’ll aid my allies instead, as risking X value in units for less than X in one round of income is not worth it.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=19251.0

Here’s a link to his most recent game that is still in progress (so please don’t discuss any future moves about this particular game), if you look for his name on other game threads in the tournament section.  You can read the moves on the forum but you should open the ABattleMap files to look at the actual game board progress.

I also played a US Pacific strategy against Zhukov in my last tournament game, which was also going well, but I made a mistake with the Soviets and let the Germans run rampant. :|  So if you want to “check out” a US Pacific Allied strategy that almost worked, you can see it here:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=18757.0

Now having played these two games for several more rounds there do appear to be some disadvantages.

Sacrificing german planes to take CAU, or Italian troops on a first-round assault to help the Germans take it, combined with placing fewer troops in Africa - can make it so that the Axis has less of a fighting force, and might also be making less money than otherwise possible.

Italy is likely to lose its NO(s) in Africa faster.  Germany gets the CAU NO, but if it is possible to get this by trading KAR, then that might be a lot easier.

Germany loses a lot of flexibility by being tied into sending armor to CAU (either to reinforce it, or to take MOS). Also fighters can get tied up too, making atlantic Allied convoys easier and facilitating the US going for Japan.

Plusses: if you can get Italy to fight your Russian territory border skirmishes and to build infantry to defend ITA, FRA, and GER against the Allies amphibious assaults - then Germany can build up much faster than Russia and ultimately take Moscow with a stack of armor (possibly reinforced by a buy of all bombers, the turn before the assault - as they can fly from GER to MOS is one turn).

Having Italy use its infantry for cannon fodder is much better than having Italy attack MOS to soften up the defenses before the German attack, as Italy will typically lose all its units on the first round of fighting (thus it costs 10 IPC to kill a single defending Russian infantry - by buying 2 arm, or 10.5 with inf/art).  Italy can also intentionally escalate in border countries (stack an empty country with 2 inf, instead of 1) to bleed off more Russian units.

I will usually only build extra naval units with Germany if there is some sort of core to build them around. Be that a surviving cruiser or battleship. If I still have one of these in turn two or three I might build some subs or even a destroyer. Also the casualty rate on the Eastern Front cant be too high, because then I will buy extra land units instead.

So basically, it depends on how well the Allies play and how well my navy holds up. Its a opportunistic investment at best and I never considered it a feasible strategy for Germany really.

If you’re gonna setup for anything, setup to give yourself thr maximum amount of options.

Group the bulk of your armor in EPL,

from here you are always in the possible position of blitzing KAR, CAU, and RUS.  Not to mention if you can keep enough units coming, always able to keep your 2nd NO.

This puts the russians in very awkward positions, he cant lose his little battles, or he’s exposed, and he has to defend all of his factories at the same time, with a stack equal to your stack.

This also means then that more of his infantry are forced to attack, and then exposed to overwelhming counter attack (if you can spare a fgt or bmb or 2) in which you usually come out a few IPCS ahead.

Couple this with Italian support, and you can punch holes for your German armor all day long.

even if dice turn bad for you, and you never get an open break for a factory in the east. you’ve managed to keep the war that much farther away from Berlin, for that much longer.

hm i was talking about an italian complex in egypt, bought on IT2 ;)  here is what happend.

in a KIF game, G1 took egypt. so yes axis did get italy its 2nd NO and 20+ IPC for one or two rounds but it dindt help. IT was SBRed so heavily there was no point in repairing factory damage. he was basically down to purtchasing 2-3 inf a turn… and with italian navy sunk at round 4 or 5 only a defesive tool for germany ( africa retaken by allies at that point.)

so we have come to the conclusion that italy really needs an IC in egypt to be of any help to germany.  by the time allies have taken egypt and the IC , japan will be there to enter land war against US in africa. an IC really commits one of UK/US to really fight for africa or UK  goes under 20 IPC… this gains time for japan to reach the european theatre, this takes pressure of germany.

if G1 takes egypt, italy can only shuffle about 6 -10 units over to africa before his navy is sunk. plus he cant really produce in italy cuz he needs to repair factory damage.

I remember that trick, but as you know it was also a refuted line of play. I remember the Germans took it lite and brought that tank to EE and took back Ukraine and Caucasus.

I think that’s impossible in 1941. The Soviets can build 6 tanks with 30 IPC, but Germany would have at least that many defending to make it a mutual death going slightly against the Soviets and they cant afford to trade a turns worth of builds.

I think it may work in 1942, as long as the Soviets take the southern territories ( UKraine, Belo, East Ukraine), because they at least have air units and a lot more tanks.

I remember the leave Karelia tactic in MB required a 3 tank, 3 Infantry buy with 24 IPC