Heavy Bombers Question…



  • Heavy Bombers get to roll two dice when attacking.  Does this mean that if i’m attacking two infantry with 1 bomber, i could score two “hits” and win the battle in round 1 (pending casualty zone retaliation)??  Or is it like tech rolls (only one tech advance, no matter how many 6’s), where you only get one “hit” regardless of how many dice are 4 or less?



  • Heavy Bombers is for Strategic Bombing Raids only.



  • @TexCapPrezJimmy:

    Heavy Bombers is for Strategic Bombing Raids only.

    How do you justify that comment? Unless there’s some funky errata I haven’t seen yet, then…

    For SBR take the sum of the two dice.

    For regular combat if both dice score hits then you can move two defenders behind the casualty line.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    No, the original poster has it correct.

    If you have heavy bombers, then each bomber rolls two dice.  If they are attacking ground, air or naval units they can score two hits, if they are attacking industrial complexes, you add the two results together for a total.

    It’s like having two bombers (except it only takes one hit to destroy you.)



  • That’s what I thought, that makes it a damn good tech.  Thanks guys & gals… Jenn, you rock.



  • Woops, I was totally wrong. Well, that changes some things…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @shifty:

    That’s what I thought, that makes it a damn good tech.  Thanks guys & gals… Jenn, you rock.

    Null perspiration, chummer.

    Best techs in the game, IMHO:

    Paratroopers
    Heavy Bombers
    Long Range Fighters/Bombers
    Jet Fighters

    Improved Factories
    Improved Shipyards
    Improved Artillery
    Mechanized Infantry

    the rest


  • '10

    Somebody’s been running the shadows…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @eudemonist:

    Somebody’s been running the shadows…

    I own the shadows now. 🙂



  • best tech paratroopers ?

    id say best techs are improved factories / advanced art cuz every nation can make use of them, no matter what…



  • @atarihuana:

    best tech paratroopers ?

    id say best techs are improved factories / advanced art cuz every nation can make use of them, no matter what…

    advanced art is decent but improved factories are my favorite (South Africa w/ 4 tanks per turn? yes please)



  • @atarihuana:

    id say best techs are improved factories / advanced art cuz every nation can make use of them, no matter what…

    There is a difference between a tech which a country can use and a tech which is useful to a country.  Also, even a tech which is useful for every country may not be as objectively good as a tech which is game breakingly powerful for two or three countries.

    There is also the question of ease of use, IE how long does it take before you can use the tech, and how early must you receive the tech to make it useful at all.  Also, some techs give you immediate short term gains that are good for rushing, whereas others will help you in the long game.

    Improved Factories is one of the best techs in the game, but only if you get it 1st turn.  After that, it rapidly diminishes to good, then useful, then why bother?

    Assuming you get it 1st turn for 2 Researchers:
    Britain: Gamebreaking.  They can simply dump 1 or 2 Factories in the Middle East/Africa/Australia and start pumping out units like mad.
    Germany: Gamebreaking.  Able to build up to 2 Factories near the front lines or simply take the Karelian/Caucasian ones, Russians are going to get their asses kicked.
    Russia: Useful.  If Karelia isn’t captured first turn, it probably never will.  Doubtful you will actually get this tech though.
    America: Useful.  Being able to build 4 units out of Alaska, or 3 units out of Hawaii, could be quite useful.  To say nothing of grabbing other islands in the pacific, or even getting a base down in Algeria or Norway.
    Japan: Gamebreaking.  Who needs transports, you might as well send them all off to kill Canada or something.
    Italy: Useful.  Plonking down 8 Infantry a turn.  Which is pretty damn useful if Germany is off blitzing Russia with their whole army.

    Advanced Artillery on the other hand, is one of the weaker techs in the game.  Its not that its bad, it just doesn’t do enough.  It means that a 10 IPC group of 2 Infantry and 1 Artillery have 6 Attack instead of 5.  Unless you are someone like Russia, who has absolutely huge amounts of Infantry, and doesn’t have to move them much,  the number of times this will actually be useful is minimal.  Compare it to Jet Fighters, which gives a 10 IPC Fighter 4 Attack instead of 3.  The difference is that most countries have more Fighters than Artillery, and that giving a 33% firepower boost to one of the most flexible units in the game is better than a 20% firepower boost to a couple of slow moving cannon fodder.



  • I completely agree with you, except for the fact that adv factories would be good for the US, IMHO i think that an extra IC for the US would be too risky. Alaska, Hawaii and even Brazil can bee taken by Japan. Because (let’s face it) Japan can do anything…… just not everything



  • Actually, I have gotten Advanced Factory Production for America a few times, and I was always happy to get the tech.  An IC in Algeria pumping out 3 units every turn is quite useful.



  • @wodan46:

    Advanced Artillery on the other hand, is one of the weaker techs in the game.  Its not that its bad, it just doesn’t do enough.  It means that a 10 IPC group of 2 Infantry and 1 Artillery have 6 Attack instead of 5.  Unless you are someone like Russia, who has absolutely huge amounts of Infantry, and doesn’t have to move them much,  the number of times this will actually be useful is minimal.  Compare it to Jet Fighters, which gives a 10 IPC Fighter 4 Attack instead of 3.  The difference is that most countries have more Fighters than Artillery, and that giving a 33% firepower boost to one of the most flexible units in the game is better than a 20% firepower boost to a couple of slow moving cannon fodder.

    Seriously?  I hated artillery at first when i began playing the game. However, after the cruel reality of trying to roll 1’s hit me (a few games)– artillery became my best friend.  Now I consistently try to diversify my attacks with a mix of tanks, artillery, and meatshields.  This works for ALL nations because not only does it advance your ground offense (ger & esp russia), but your amphib assaults benefit as well (jap, uk, usa).  Now, you can load up 2 trannies w/meathshields, 1 art, and 1 armor for a balanced attack w/plenty of firepower (no need for 1’s) rather than pure fodder.  You mentioned Russia as an the example of one of the only countries with many infantry.  However, EVERY nation should have a substantial amount of infantry.  IMO, no side can win without a substantial amount of infantry as you need a cheap unit to defend and hold your territories and to soak up hits.  Even building pure tanks for Germany isn’t as effective as building some infantry/artillery to hold your ground and create waves of attacks rather than the predictable and proverbial bangs head against meatshield wall with tanks.  I’m not trying to down play the improved IC’s, but advanced artillery is definitely not a “weaker teach” (unless, of course, you have a huge IPC surplus) 😉

    That said, after about ten games or so under my belt (of AA50), heavy bombers is my favorite tech.  Nothing like 2x bombers attacking with some meathshields (to soak up hits) to decimate the opposition.  Not to mention, infantry are the most cost efficient defense for holding that newly acquired territory. 😉



  • Heavy Bombers is still my favorite tech.  I’ve only got 5 games of AA50 under my belt though.



  • I agree with Jenn’s ordering of the techs. Russia in '41 is the only country that may have a problem with paratroopers if it gets it latter in the game due to not being able to give up the production of 4 infantry to produce a bomber. In '42 they already start with one. Paratroopers is great for attacking those out of the way places your opponent thought were safely his. And paratroopers with long range is unbelievably good and almost a requirement for them to be effective in the Pacific.

    Advanced artillery is ok. It is not all that great of a tech and I tend to buy artillery.


  • 2015 Official Answers '11 '10 Moderator

    I have yet to see advanced artillery add a single meaningful hit.  I think jets are over-rated as well.  I seldom see them actually hit a 4 that wasn’t overkill in the last round of a battle (a meaningless hit).

    It seems advanced artillery and jets gives more of a false sense of confidence to the owner, more than anything.  :lol:

    An errata that has been out for about a year now disallows +2 production on 1’s and 2’s.  So it’s no good on Hawaii, Alaska, Algeria, Burma, or any of those places.  I usually play +1 for 1’s and 2’s, as I feel the errata takes it to the opposite, equally unpleasant extreme.

    The new 2010 errata clarifies that heavy bombers only get 1 hit, and max damage is 6 on SBR (best of 2 dice).  It’s unbelievable to me that it was left ambiguous in the rulebook.  (Just says roll 2 dice per bomber - ambiguous)  Since it’s always been multi-hit capability in the past, even Krieghund told me (before the latest errata) that heavy bombers were indeed multi-hit, and max damage of 12 on SBR.

    In my experience, long range aircraft is the best tech (except for isolated situational circumstances).  With the nerfing of heavy bombers (I’m not a fan) long range air has just become that much more dominant.  If I have long range air (say with Japan or USA) and you have heavy bombers (Japan or USA) I’m liking my chances.  Increased production, shipyards, and radar all help against heavy bombers - techs that were not available in Revised (which had 2 hit heavies that you could target research at), so it seems strange to me that they would nerf heavy bombers in AA50 and not Revised or Classic.  (I know LHTR modifies them, but I mean default, normal play)

    Of course, mechanized infantry and sometimes paratroopers can be devastating as well.  It depends on what you have and your game position, of course…


  • '10

    I realize Easter was yesterday…Is that why you resurrected this thread ?


  • 2015 Official Answers '11 '10 Moderator

    @Battlingmaxo:

    I realize Easter was yesterday…Is that why you resurrected this thread ?

    Hehe - no, I resurrect threads when I get bored with the same ones - there is not enough discussion of AA50 going on, so I click on some random thread from a year ago and find one that has good discussion.  Then I resurrect it, hoping for more discussion from different folks.  🙂


  • 2015 Official Answers '11 '10 Moderator

    @Yoper:

    My friend Eric (AA50 playtester) was doing well early on in the finals of the 2009 Origins AA50 tournament, but then his opponents got both LRA and HBs.  Needless to say, he called it quits not long after that so he could get an early start home.

    Hehe - wise man.


  • 2015 Official Answers '11 '10 Moderator

    @Yoper:

    We didn’t mess with tech during our playtesting.  We wanted to make sure the base game was right.

    Also, after seeing how powerful tech can be in AA50, Greg Smorey (the GM of the Origins and GCI A&A tourneys) stop allowing then to be used in his events.

    Yeah, I can understand that.  However, no tech games can more easily drag on and on and get rather boring.  I’m in the 18th round of one right now, and it will take at least a few more rounds to decide.  I personally loathe the absence of the possibilities of a player getting paratroopers, long range air, etc.  There were no such guarantees in war - you couldn’t always be sure the enemy couldn’t reach you.

    And I understand what you mean when you say “base game”, but to many of us, the “base game” is with tech, and going no tech is an alternative for a different game.  Every time I play no tech, I end up thinking “never again”, but always get lured into another no tech game just so I can be playing A&A.  :lol:



  • In the right hands, heavy bombers are absolutely devastating. If the US gets HB in the first few years, it is in a position to destroy either the German or Italian fleets and grind the ICs to pulp. Once the US has HB, it can commit to buying just $12 a year for the Atlantic campaign and most of its other money to harrassing the Japanese navy and island hopping. Economic damage versus Germany and Italy frees the UK to build its fleet to start assailing Norway, NWE, and France.

    While HB is a fine tech for the other countries, it seems almost custom-made for the US. UK and Ger can certainly make use of HB, but they have so many other concerns that it makes squeezing an extra bomber out fairly difficult. But the same rewards are there as for the US–IC damage and fleet destruction.

    I can see the point in disallowing tech in tourneys, but love playing with them in our group. They almost always affect the game in some unforeseen way.


  • 2015 Official Answers '11 '10 Moderator

    Nature, are you aware of the Spring 2010 errata that states the heavy bombers only get the better of two dice?  Each bomber can still only hit once, and can only do max damage of 6 to a complex.


  • 2015 Official Answers '11 '10 Moderator

    @Yoper:

    Plus, the techs changed from what we had during playtesting.

    There wasn’t a Paratroopers tech in the tree we had.  Another instance of the WotC types changing things after we were done with our work.

    Yeah, I’d heard that - maybe it was from you, I don’t know.

    Paratroopers - kind of a big change, eh?  I am really glad they added it, by the way.  Especially, being on chart 1.  But what’s the point of play-testing a different game then the one they will put out?  :lol:


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