Confronting Monster Japan


  • '16 '15 '10

    In several recent games as Allies against expert opponents I find my KGF strategy foiled mid-game by a monster Japan whose income eventually exceeds 55 IPCs.

    I have tried mainland strategies for stopping Japan.  A Sink factory seems extremely risky especially if the Germans are pressuring the Russians.  An India factory seems to fatally limit United Kingdom’s ability to challenge Germany and ties down too much valuable Allied hardware before eventually being lost.

    One strategy I like is to push with Russia on an India factory if Japan builds one.

    Another is to go heavy into Africa with the United States and then eventually force the Japanese fleet to leave the Suez, granting the Allies control of the Africa and the
    Med.  But this requires a lot of transport discipline and air purchases and the US won’t be able to do much in Europe….meaning Russia still has to bear the bront of both Germany and Japan.

    Pacific fleet?  It’s a hard risk for me to take unless the Japanese sub and destroyer died at Pearl.  But perhaps this is the only sure way to divert Japan?



  • this is what happened to me yestarday… I was able tu pull out quite nice KGF. I got with England to WE and to hold it by R7. I even got to hold with the US SE by R8. BUt it was still not enough as the yellow hords were able to confront me succesfully in Africa, have got over 60 Ipcs by R7 and rolled over Russia. And with 14, yes 14, tanks in Caucasus would be able to help Germany R10 before my English suicidal attack R9 there ended my hopes anyway… If i would put resourcešs into fighting japs over Africa it would divert them from getting Italy asap.

    I did not ignore Japan entirely. I picked all the lonely transports in PAcific with UK fighter stationed in Caucaus, I even killed both jap battleships, one in Mediterreanen that has come to help jerrys, the other one coming with one transport to land in Brasil. In R5/6 I was even able to put a US tran and AC with two fighters to Pacific. I landed in Solomon and then in Borneo but still it seems to me it was all too slow…

    Simply Russia does not seem to me to be able to sustain the japanese onslought long enough for the allies to kill the Germany. If you help russia or if you confront Japs in Pacific harder or if you go heavy to africa, it all seems to divert resources from effective push on Germany which makes things only worse.

    In previous games when i tried to do something like Contain Japan first, on the other hand Germany had grown unstoppable. Any thoughts, anybody?



  • How many players are you playing with? Are you using a bid for the axis?


  • '16 '15 '10

    @Rhineland:

    How many players are you playing with? Are you using a bid for the axis?

    I’m talking about no-bid 1-1 games where as allies I’m pursuing a KGF strategy.  Against an equally skilled opponent I should typically win such games.  But there are scenarios where I experience bad luck equivalent to a bid or more–like say United Kingdom can’t or fails to retake Egypt, Russia gets bad rolls in either Ukraine or West Russia, or failing to kill the 59 tranny and then getting drubbed in Buryatia, or some combo of these events.

    Bad luck happens and the KGF gets stalled, resulting in Japan getting too strong.

    I’m really just fishing for useful ways to divert Jap energy without giving the Germans too much breathing room.



  • Instead of attempting to liberate Egypt use the Indian Ocean fleet and other assets in that area to annoy Japan.

    Take 2 infantry from India and invade Borneo.
    Use the Destroyer to attack the SZ59 transport
    Use the SZ40 Transport and 2 infantry from Australia 2 attack New Guinea.
    Use the SZ40 sub to attack the Japanese sub in SZ45
    The fighter from the Indian Ocean can go to Borneo, SZ59, or SZ45 and land on the US carrier.

    I prefer to use it in Borneo which means the Indian Ocean carrier must join that transport for the fighter to land on. All of this presents numerous targets for Japan to have to deal with. Yes Germany will make some headway in Africa but it can be liberated for good from the west. Also consider building a US Pacific fleet to fight the Japanese with. It is very hard for the Japanese to cover all of their money islands, the coastal territories, and its homeland. I find a lot of players cannot fight in the Pacific with either the Japanese or the US because they so rarely do so.



  • I think if you do these things then you will not find the axis so hard in your games.

    1. Build agressively with Russia if they do not have the ability to punish the axis for advancing then this will really hurt you. Plus by doing this it will keep your IPC up giving you the ability to fund your war against germany specifically in the first 3 rounds.
    2. Never totaly give the pacific to the japs without a fight for the americans. Even if you are doing an all out KGF. 
    3. Never run every inf from the east to the front lines they are needed more as a gap stop for russia.
    4. Never forget about africa the 10 IPC is huge benefit to either side because it is really a 2 IPC swing per IPC.
    5. Biggest of all I think for the allies is to make very strong attacks that will limit the dice factor. Unless you really need to do an attack always wait for better numbers later on.
    6. Always keep an eye on the economic war and try to keep it over 10. Joined with 5 this will probably make the game longer but will make the allies win 60% of the time.

    Hope that helps. If you want some pointers I will play you in a thread game here.


  • '16 '15 '10

    @a44bigdog:

    Instead of attempting to liberate Egypt use the Indian Ocean fleet and other assets in that area to annoy Japan.

    Take 2 infantry from India and invade Borneo.
    Use the Destroyer to attack the SZ59 transport
    Use the SZ40 Transport and 2 infantry from Australia 2 attack New Guinea.
    Use the SZ40 sub to attack the Japanese sub in SZ45
    The fighter from the Indian Ocean can go to Borneo, SZ59, or SZ45 and land on the US carrier.

    I prefer to use it in Borneo which means the Indian Ocean carrier must join that transport for the fighter to land on. All of this presents numerous targets for Japan to have to deal with. Yes Germany will make some headway in Africa but it can be liberated for good from the west. Also consider building a US Pacific fleet to fight the Japanese with. It is very hard for the Japanese to cover all of their money islands, the coastal territories, and its homeland. I find a lot of players cannot fight in the Pacific with either the Japanese or the US because they so rarely do so.

    I agree with your attack plan (its what i use) except in a no-bid game not countering Egypt seems so risky to me–that gives Germany Africa for 2-3 turns!  Plus I have a hard time sacrificing an AC.

    Of course, I know the Borneo move throws Japan off of its rhythm so I respect it a lot.  In a bid situation where Germany takes Egypt with 4-5 units then Borneo seems potentially the best available move.

    Perhaps the problems in my game stem from focusing on keeping Germany weak, so when I lose it’s typically to the monster Japan.

    I’m going to try to work a more aggressive USA Pacific into my game.  Tell me, if Japan decides to not attack Pearl, do you always go aggressive on Japan or do you take the carrier to the Atlantic?



  • Buf, japs not attacking Pearl … ! 3 free boats to USA, a very quick Pacific strat. Island hooping can begin round 3 instead the usual 4-5.

    Try another thing. Not doing Pearl is almost suicide against decent allied Pacific strat. I’m surprised about how many people stick to KGF even when Pearl or China fails



  • Two other moves that you can try with UK is: take the fleet from india and attack Kwangtung. This is a risky move but with the fighter supporting the infantry you can kill their infantry and even take the territory. When I do this I’ve noticed that it really slows Japan down. It splits their forces in half in Asia and leaves a carrier and fighter and transport right next to Japan.

    Or you can combine your fleet at India with the transport and sub by Australia. This forces japan to attack this fleet which can cost them dearly. OR UK will be able to effectively use those infantry units in the south pacific to reinforce Asia or island hop.



  • Some more good responses for you Zhukov44

    As far as loosing the Carrier off Borneo, a good Japanese player should attack the UK fleet that is in seazone 34 following a liberation of Egypt. Pearl can be done without any of those naval units.

    The thing with UK naval units in the Pacific is once they are gone in most games that is it. They are gone for good and the UK will not be bothering you any longer in “your” ocean.



  • @a44bigdog:

    As far as loosing the Carrier off Borneo, a good Japanese player should attack the UK fleet that is in seazone 34 following a liberation of Egypt.

    Forgive me a44, but I need clarification on this. Is this UK counter of Egypt on UK 1? If so how do you pull it off? This is something I have never tried before.
    Usually Germany has at least 2 units on Egypt after G1, with another inf and art in Libya with any planes that helped attack. Even if you do take back Egypt on UK 1, Germany just takes it back, right? Or is there something I am missing? Thanks.


  • '16 '15 '10

    @syntaxerror111:

    @a44bigdog:

    As far as loosing the Carrier off Borneo, a good Japanese player should attack the UK fleet that is in seazone 34 following a liberation of Egypt.

    Forgive me a44, but I need clarification on this. Is this UK counter of Egypt on UK 1? If so how do you pull it off? This is something I have never tried before.
    Usually Germany has at least 2 units on Egypt after G1, with another inf and art in Libya with any planes that helped attack. Even if you do take back Egypt on UK 1, Germany just takes it back, right? Or is there something I am missing? Thanks.

    The idea is United Kingdom keeps control of Africa another turn.  You use the fighter from the ac to help in the attack, or sometimes the bomber.

    As far as loosing the Carrier off Borneo, a good Japanese player should attack the UK fleet that is in seazone 34 following a liberation of Egypt. Pearl can be done without any of those naval units.

    True this can be done if you devote the battleship and three fighters.  But what do you use to kill the destroyer in 59?  Sending half the fleet to SZ 36 seems like a big step for J1, and potentially risky if Pearl goes awry.



  • In all honesty if japan is getting out of control US has to go heavy in the pacific and rob them of the 12ipc islands. Now they will most likely spam subs at the sight of this to overwhelm you as you come that much closer to tokyo, but the real plan is to grab an island, block the jap fleet, and give you time to build an IC on borneo or east indies. With this you can immediatly plant 4 naval units and force japanese efforts off the mainland. This is the only way I can think of stopping their progress without risking India and sink IC’s. So even if your doing KGF always slowly build a unit or two off LA in anticipation for this.



  • I usually play KGF with Allies.  I have seen some good KJF from some expert players, but I have never been good at it myself.  Against a good opponent, I always get India IC taken eventually, and that usually spells the end of that, and in the meantime, Germany has gotten wicked strong and there is no coming back.

    With KGF, what tends to happen in my games is Germany gets a jump on Africa, then UK and USA send some troops in to start securing it, then, both USA and UK focus solely on Germany.  A Normandy invasion cannot happen for a good while against a good German opponent, so what ends up happening is troops get shuttled up North through Karelia and so forth.

    Don’t let Japan get Africa, whatever you do, but just try to stall with existing troops in Asia, retreating slowly, until the Japanase hit the areas around Moscow.  Hopefully, by this point, USA and UK have lots of troops in the East European area, some of which can be used to beat back the Japanese a little to give Russia continuous income in the mid 20s, while also all three countries pressure Germany.

    So this is what the game boils down to often, whether the Allies have enough presence in Europe to help Russia and take Germany, or whether Germany is too strong there.  If the Allies can’t get a foothold in Europe by the time Japan is knocking on Russia’s door, the game is over for them.

    If someone knows an effective KJF against an expert Japanese opponent, that is certainly a different strategy, but this post is my advice on dealing with Japan from a KGF standpoint.

    One last thing that could be done, I suppose, is just threaten Japan with a minor navy, in case he pulled all his ships to go help Germany, but I really prefer to finish off Germany as USA at all costs as quickly as possible.



  • I just played a game against a very good Allies player, and I got some ideas from him, so I will add to my post above.  This person was probably more skilled at this strategy than I could be, but I found what he did effective as far as confronting Japan, so I wanted to relate it.

    He mostly executed a KGF, but he did start off with an Indian IC, and on the second turn, a US IC in Siankiang.  Combined with some clever first turn UK ship moves, he stalled Japan pretty well with not alot of resource commitment.  DD, fighter, carrier attacked the Japanese transport.  Later on he managed to block me with a transport to prevent a potential transport attack on India.  USA mostly focused on Germany, except for the IC contribution, and UK sort of went half and half.  He also flew some USA fighters over to Bury, which, combined with the UK figher there, threatened any newly built tranports without escort, limiting somewhat where I could transport troops.

    USA and UK both secured Africa pretty early in the game from the Germans.

    Both the India and Siankiang ICs eventually fell to Japan, but it took several turns, meanwhile Germany battled a somewhat strong Russia, which was not as concerned about holding the eastern front, and the USA and half of UK’s effort.

    I did certainly notice that Germany had an easier time of it than under a full-blown KGF, but it was still very difficult.  No Africa income, and Norway was lost pretty early, and I was left trading Eastern european zones with the Allies.  The game was extremely close, but Japan finally managed to get the upper hand in Asia, and I have to say, that the free India and Siankiang ICs were in pretty good locations, so that speaks against this strategy.

    Germany had built a carrier first turn, and I was able to use my preserved fleet to destroy a small combined fleet, stalling the Allies somewhat.

    Japan ended up taking Russia, but it was on what I considered a gaffe - a path was inadvertently left open to blitz tanks in.  Otherwise, it is quite possible Germany would have fallen, although the USSR big stack was reduced by a German assault once, and there were not too many Soviet troops around to contend with the 7 tanks/1inf per turn Japan was turning out from its three ICs.

    Anyway, it seemed like quite a viable strategy, so I thought I would pass it on.

    Oh, and this was a no-bid game.


  • 2007 AAR League

    I had lots of fun reading this thread. The amount of diversionary (useless) suggestions was too much to bear, so I have to post.
    On a KGF, UK and US will go for Germany with every IPC. Russia should build max ground units to threaten an early German advance and a later Japanese thrust. UK should take down the jap transport off of KWA and retake Egypt with 3 inf (2 off tra) and ftr from india and land it on the carrier between MAD and SAF. Take 2 inf 2 arm and invade algeria. Destroy the axis fleet on BAL. The US should have in total 8 trn to provide a 4 inf, 4 arm bridge to the european theatre. The US and UK should land in alegria for 3 turns and push as far as EGY and ocassionally trade Tra-J with Jap player if he advances this far. Doing this you will lock the med from the japanese. Also dont forget to sink med fleet with US fighters. Then the allies should go through NORWAY-Karelia rout. Never go EEU, becasue Germany will just trade it with you. Build up enough forces and go towards Berlin. From this angle you can also aid Russia defense if needed. Keep fighters in russia until you are ready for the final blow on Germany. Dont waste effort on Japan, as it will only keep germany alive longer. All foces should go to KGF. And dont forget to attack Japan if it gets to close to Mos. Dont let them consolidate on Novo.



  • @ezto:

    I had lots of fun reading this thread. The amount of diversionary (useless) suggestions was too much to bear, so I have to post.
    On a KGF, UK and US will go for Germany with every IPC. Russia should build max ground units to threaten an early German advance and a later Japanese thrust. UK should take down the jap transport off of KWA and retake Egypt with 3 inf (2 off tra) and ftr from india and land it on the carrier between MAD and SAF. Take 2 inf 2 arm and invade algeria. Destroy the axis fleet on BAL. The US should have in total 8 trn to provide a 4 inf, 4 arm bridge to the european theatre. The US and UK should land in alegria for 3 turns and push as far as EGY and ocassionally trade Tra-J with Jap player if he advances this far. Doing this you will lock the med from the japanese. Also dont forget to sink med fleet with US fighters. Then the allies should go through NORWAY-Karelia rout. Never go EEU, becasue Germany will just trade it with you. Build up enough forces and go towards Berlin. From this angle you can also aid Russia defense if needed. Keep fighters in russia until you are ready for the final blow on Germany. Dont waste effort on Japan, as it will only keep germany alive longer. All foces should go to KGF. And dont forget to attack Japan if it gets to close to Mos. Dont let them consolidate on Novo.

    Dumping troops in Africa for 3 turns is not exactly “going after Germany with every IPC.”  Only in certain situations where Africa is particularly heavily contested would that be a good idea.

    That’s alot of troops that could be in Karelia already.


  • 2007 AAR League

    very true my friend, but you cannot let japan cross the suez canal.


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