ERROR ! ERROR ! SUBMARINE RULES - BIG MESS

Thanks so much for clearing this up.

Good answer, Uberlager!

@Uberlager:

Had the BB been any other combat surface ship, it would have been sunk before it had the chance to return fire.

A defending sub would also be able to fire back if hit, as long as there were no attacking destroyers, since it would also get a Surprise Strike and the fire would be simultaneous.

@Krieghund:

@Uberlager:

Had the BB been any other combat surface ship, it would have been sunk before it had the chance to return fire.

A defending sub would also be able to fire back if hit, as long as there were no attacking destroyers, since it would also get a Surprise Strike and the fire would be simultaneous.

Exactly why I qualified it with “combat surface ship” - except DD, of course. :wink:

Yes, I was just emphasizing and clarifying your point there.  I’m finding that newbies don’t always pick up on that distinction.  :-)

@Krieghund:

Yes, I was just emphasizing and clarifying your point there.  I’m finding that newbies don’t always pick up on that distinction.  :-)

And you would be correct.

ok now im kinda confused lol subs get a first strike attack if no DD’s but do they get a reg attack same turn as well? so 2 attacks per round?

No.  Subs get a Surprise Strike (attack before everything else except other subs with Surprise Strike) if there are no enemy destroyers.  They get a normal attack (at the same time as everything else) if there are enemy destroyers.  They never get both.

The thing i find odd about the sub rules is that undefended transports can launch an amphibous assault thru sub infested waters with no fear of losing there cargoes.

Sure the transports will likely die on the sub owners turn, but I find it odd that sub capatains have to watch the troops unload before they can fire the torpedoes…

I understand the abstraction thats going on - and for the most part I think the sub rules work (I am okay with planes not being able to attack subs et cetera) - but this particular outcome of the abstractiosn sticks in the craw.

I agree with the last comment here, subs should be able to defend against lone trps. Actually that would be more conssistent, as the trp must always be escorted, in defense and offense.

I also think a good rule change ( ot just to make things more realistic) would be to let airplanes hit subs. The sub would still be able to dive before aircraft fire if it chooses so (if DDs not present). In other words sub could be picked as cannon fodder in a bigger sea battle involving air units. It would make the power with a lot of air units think twice before attacking fleets and making fleets more worthwhile to build. (discussed under another thread)

Keep in mind however, subs alone always reserve the right to submerge before even the Attacker rolls his dice. so essentially, without a destroyer, you can NEVER attack subs unless your opponent allows you.