Building Italian fleet - is there a point?

  • 2007 AAR League

    I’m curious. Do you build boats with Italy?
    What would the purpose of Italian ships be, and have you ever acheived anything valuable with the Ita fleet (other than having it wiped out mid-game by US).

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I’ve found a carrier and second fighter very useful for Italy.

    I’ve also played with adding destroyers (not as useful) and submarines (kinda funny and annoying to the allies) to the fleet.

    Fun to attack SZ 12 with 3 submarines and 2 fighters, then retreat the fighters after whittling down the allied fleets.  Everyone always underrates the strength of Italy…honestly, I’ve had Italy stronger than any other nation on the board more than once. (Once in a game here on the forums, once in a game at home.)

  • the only problem is that british goal numero uno woulöd be to sink that fleet asap 🙂

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    One thing to say you have that goal, another to be able to actually do it. 🙂

  • hit karelia and sink sz12?  :evil:

  • Yes there is a point in building an Italian fleet.  In a recent game I was playing, the US TOTALLY underestimated Italy and to make a long story really short, 1 US invasion force plus BB ships and cruisers went to the bottom.  Don’t underestimate Italy.

  • Liaison TripleA '11 '10

    Building into your fleet is a must if allies put navy in the atlantic.  Even if it’s just a sub for fodder, or dst to defend against sneak attack.  It forces the allies to stay Honest in their ship builds.

    I believe building German Air (1 fgt a turn) is a must for the axis aswell in the first few turns,  These fighters should be used in conjunction with an italian carrier, and Euro defense (like holding france while threaten Sz12) This makes the navy a powerful obstacle to deal with.

  • Last game, I build transports as Italy. I figured my Italian navy was going down anyway if UK really pushed, so I wanted to get as many infantry towards N-Africa as possible. I ended up with a total of three transports (all sunk of course), and a pretty vast stack of 10+ inf in N-Africa. Add a bomber and one or two fighters, and the US/UK-forces are in for a hard time in Africa. The NO they completed, added to Italian support in Europe.

  • anyone tried a 1 inf + transporter build round one with italy?

    then  perhaps supplementing it with a carrier and a fighter later one

  • anyone tried a 1 inf + transporter build round one with italy?

    then  perhaps supplementing it with a carrier and a fighter later one

    The problem about this one is, that at the end of the italian turn there is two cruisers and one transport in a seazone (that is if you dont want to leave the tranny alone). Any british player with one or two bombers left would seize this opportunity to sink a good part of the italian fleet (OK, there might be even better moves - still this is a good one). Even sinking one cruiser and loosing one bomber is a major blow to the italian fleet.

  • i guess no body’s saying its gotta go in round 1 😛

    but i of course understand your point.

    then perhaps go for italy’s NO’s in round one and a build of 2 inf + 1 art or 3 inf and then on round 2 build a transport to be abel to exploid the 3rd shorebombardement and a second fighter and then roundt three the carier to land the fighters on.

    of course it would require a bit of planning in relation to english bomber threats etc. but i can be done is should mention as i have done it a couple of times

  • If you build an arty and infantry round one and counting on Germany taking Egypt and Italy taking Trans-Jordan, you could end the round with 24 bucks which means on turn 2 you buy the carrier and figther to have a powerful little fleet.  Also building transports is a must to help pound on Russia and to Brazil and reinvade Africa if needed.  This of course totally depends on what the 4 players before you have done in their turn.

  • In my games, the UK and US players have never seen Italy as a big threat, so I have used the 1 inf 1 transport buy I1. The UK and US have been forever preoccupied with Big G in Europe, so Italy gets a free ride… for now at least.

  • @Fighter:

    anyone tried a 1 inf + transporter build round one with italy?

    then  perhaps supplementing it with a carrier and a fighter later one

    Me. I think this is the best choice for Italy: move 2 cruisers and the transport to SZ 15 to take Egypt or Tans-Jordan and DON’T move the BB to protect the newly-built transport, and by the second turn you can unload 4 land units and use all shore bombardments. On the next turns, you have to buy some naval units to make italian fleet stronger: fleet is the unique weapon of the Italy and even its worst weak point…

  • great to read that someone else have tried this approach and that it is okay viable.

    an 20+ italian beast i dreadfull for UK when we reach round 3 or 4 where the queen’ forces arn’t what the used to be and her income at a very reasonable level in the axis’ eyes ~26-28 max.

    i know that there have been a couple of posts regarding techs for italy, but in this context with a navy “heavy” italy, do any of you use a 5 or 10’r for a couple of tech dices now that you have the cash to splash on it or is the money being invested straight into hardware?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I like the second transport on Italy 2 when you can park your fleet in SZ 14 and dump reinforcements into Libya.  It also gives you a chance to see what America and England are doing.

    Other things I’ve done is just not buy anything on Italy one and buy a Carrier, Transport and stuff on Italy 2 when you have 24+ IPC


  • I was thinking of saving up, as Jennifer said, but I normally feel pressured to go all out and just buy as many units as possible with any money I have.

  • Want to hear about this……last games…The U.K navy near gibraltar…1 dd et 1 cruiser…if still alive…they attack the Italian Navy with 1 bomber and 1 plane. If they succeed…The Italian Navy cannot be rebuild. This can be very good For U.K. Did you guys saw that in one of your games?

    I got some ideas but…

    • Destroy with Germany those 2 boats but you cant destroy the bb and tranny near iceland
    • Take Egypt frist turn wich can save the italian navy but cannot loose chance to destroy properly the uk navy in atlantic

    You guys have other ideas?..Thoughts?

  • For Italy to have options and be a factor, a fleet is critical. Save a few dollars first turn so that a carrier can be purchased 2nd turn. Another transport will come later. If you’re playing with NO’s then a 3rd turn battleship will really cause problems, before the US player’s 3rd turn he’s facing a Med. fleet of 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 1 carrier and 2 fighters (1 German). Add a a transport, destroyer and a sub the next couple of turns and you can threaten London, and Washington. This is especially important if the US is focused on the powerful Japanese in the Pacific. If Italy loses their fleet early, you’ll be stuck sticking 3 infantry into France every turn and that’s not a lot of fun.

  • he U.K navy near gibraltar…1 dd et 1 cruiser…if still alive…they attack the Italian Navy with 1 bomber and 1 plane.

    Yeah, you must kill that fleet in sz12 on G1 for this reason. At the very least, you need to kill one of ships, because you can’t guarantee that the Egypt fighter will be killed. Even if you bring the bomber to Egypt, that fighter is still ~20% to survive. With a dd, ca, ftr, and bmr attacking the Italian fleet on UK1, they have about an even shot at taking it out, which will cripple the Axis.

    I’d say sz12 is a higher priority than the BB in sz2. You can do both, but then it’s a little thin and sacrifices must be made elsewhere. I’d rather have the bomber go to Egypt than to sz2, so I’m thinking its probably better to leave the BB alone on G1.

  • I think there are basically 3 really good options for what to buy on I1:

    1. 1 fighter
    2. 1 transport, 1 infantry
    3. nothing; save 10 IPC

    My standard has been to buy the fighter. As long as Germany attacks Egypt (with the bomber), you can be reasonably sure that Italy will get collect both NOs on their first turn, giving them 21-23. So you don’t need to save for the carrier on I2, you’ll have the cash. With the fighter buy, you’ll have the carrier loaded as soon as its built, instead of having to “borrow” a fighter from Germany. Plus you can use the second fighter on I2 if need be.

    The trans + inf buy is my preferred one, since it gets land units into Africa as quickly as possible. But it depends on what the UK does on their turn. If they have bombers, I’d rather not split my fleet up to protect the transport, so I wouldn’t buy it in this case since the fleet will be in sz15 at the end of I1. However, I find that often the UK loses its bomber on their first turn when they clear out the German Baltic fleet (so they can land both fighters on a carrier). In this case, as long as the Egyptian fighter isn’t still hanging around, nothing will be in range of the transport so you can go ahead and buy it without worry.

    Lastly, saving your income could be good if the fleet is being threatened by bombers and you want to plop down multiple ships at once for protection when you return to sz14.

  • 2007 AAR League

    So , you are saying that Ita should get a CV?  😐
    I just can’t see how axis can manage without the land forces that Italy could buy instead; it is a total of 24 ipc we are talking about (cv + ftr)

  • If Itlay has no navy they have no IPC’s. Africa is lost and enemy warships will soon patrol the Med. The fleet is a must but never leave the Med. or its death is certain……unless of course there’s a chance to take London, but that doesn’t happen often. My first priority with Italy is to always build a strong navy in order to be a factor throughout the game. In Revised the the German battleship in the Med. was a key unit, in Anniversary they give you an even stronger naval presence - use it.

  • my last FTF game, italy pimped up ts navy to no effect. it was a long strategic game, neither side taking big risks. in games like this i feel its just a waste of IPCs. because USA/UK can always and will allways outprouduce any western axis naval attempts. this might change if USA is pacific only. then an Italian fleet which UK has to sink alone could turn out to be a combined threat with a strong german luftwaffe in france.

    the best use for italian navy  ive found is either a well-timed  attack on some allied sz12 fleet , so that luftwaffe can take out leftovers, or on a rare occasion it prooved quite useful in Yellow Sea, after an US  hulk smash 😄

  • Should the I-Ties build 2 carriers for deffese and be supplied extra fighters form Japan and or germany. A 2 AC 1 BB 2-3 CR fleet with 2 trasports in the Meditreainan with acess to the Indian ocean would help alot and if the Japanesse have 5 or more carriers the should keep one in the Indian to reinforce the I-Ties if needed.

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