• After playing AA50 ('41 scenario) twice it always seems that the game is decided by the highly effective “race to Moscow”.  I would majorly appreciate any help I can get for holding out with the Russians.

    Here’s how the second game went (and the first game went pretty much the same)

    G1:  builds all tanks.  Take East Poland, Baltic States and Karelia.  Most Tanks are in East Poland so they are in range to Blitz into Moscow or Caucuses. There was enough left in each location that an attack against them would be suicide.

    R1: Build three tanks and five INF.  No attacks.

    I1: Take Ukraine with a blitzing tank from Balkans and amphibious assault from Italy.  Marched the two INF in Balkans to Bulgaria/Romania so that you may also do some amphibious next turn.

    G2: Build 10 tanks.  Attacked Belorussia and Eastern Ukraine with just enough INF and planes to have one or two infantry remaining after taking the zone (IE creating blitz lanes).  13 tanks are in East Poland now.

    R2: Took back Ukraine, East Ukraine and Belorusia to prevent a blitz.

    I2: Weaken Ukraine.

    G3:  Build 10 tanks.  Go into Belorussia with 13 tanks and two INF.  10 more tanks are in East Poland.

    R3: Cannot attack 13 tanks and two Inf with the tanks in Caucuses and the units in Russia combined.  Pooling all my units plus a build if 5 tanks and a plane in Russia will not hold against the 2 INF 23 tanks and 3 Planes Germany will attack with next turn.  -Concede-

    Where were England, America and Japan during this battle?

    England built a fleet but never had enough to kill my west troops.  He attacked an empty Northwestern Europe on E1.  I emptied France to take back Northwestern Europe and then did the reverse when he took France.

    Japan and America fought over the Pacific.  While the game is way better than previous incarnations of A&A, I feel it is centered to much on Germany’s eastern front.  Seems to me that if the game is going to end by G3 It really doesn’t matter what America or Japan do.

    Please tell me how Russia can hold?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    First off, my German 1 results (usually) in Germany with Karelia, Baltic States, E. Poland and Ukraine which gives me 50+ to spend on Germany 2.

    With that said, I would say Russia’s best option is to pull back what they can and focus on Caucasus and Russian defense for the next wave of German attacks.  Follow this up with an all offensive piece build.  Right now I’m playing with 2 fighters, 2 armor, but obviously this is NOT going to work all the time!  A safe bet, IMHO, is 6 armor which gives you amazing offensive punch if Germany pushes too close to you. (Remember, those German fighters can’t do squat to defend Germany if he pushes and you immediately counter attack!)


  • I like the 5 inf/3 tank buy, or I really like the 6 inf, 4 art buy.  What I usually do is pile everything on turn 1 into belorussia and Caucasus, ending turn 1 (if karelia wasn’t hit) with 10+ inf in both of those areas, leaving 1 inf in karelia.  Never though of the 6 tank buy though, if you do that you could still stack belorussia and caucasus and force germany to move her tanks off of east poland. I’ll have to try that next game.  I don’t like buying air as there isn’t enough time to create dead zones and trade areas with this game.

    For UK my favored buy is on turn one 1 carrier, 2 transports (assuming you only have one left), then either a south africa IC, or another fighter.  On UK2 you can drop 6 troops and more navy to protect it, i like hitting Northwest Europe and Norway.  On UK3 i really like moving into SZ 5 and retaking Karelia plus Poland just to annoy Germany.


  • i generally have UK build 2 fighters every turn, and land them somewhere in Russia to help defend. also, UK can build up its ground forces and land troops in Karelia/finland/norway and push forward. may not stop a German blitz, but brunts the force of it


  • Hi, I’m not an expert player, rather pretty average, so I think, if you are Allies, how about Russia pull back to a point where the supply lanes favour russia, so Germany need tanks, and then trade cheap inf/arty combo’s against expensive german tanks, and at the same time let UK trade the France, with inf/battleship comboes, while US strategigally bombard German factories. Geez, this sounds like something going on in the real war. Anyway, I need to playtest it some more. This was just an idea.


  • The error you make is that you don’t make any Russian attacks on R1… At least one should always be possible on normal dice and with some luck even two. Russia is not in such a bad shape as it looks, with all the infantry she can afford to make riskier attacks than you normally would.  😉


  • The error you make is that you don’t make any Russian attacks on R1… At least one should always be possible on normal dice and with some luck even two. Russia is not in such a bad shape as it looks, with all the infantry she can afford to make riskier attacks than you normally would.  wink

    Hmm, not so sure about this Driel310.

    If Germans have tank and arty in Karelia, 3 infantry and 1 arty in baltic states and 6 tanks and two infantry in East Poland where does Russia attack?

    I think Artillery or planes might be better for Russia than tanks.  As long as Artillery has infantry to go with it, it adds as much attack power as a tank and does it 20% cheaper.  Planes give Russia some “teeth” for hitting territories that you know won’t hold through to the next German turn.


  • @General:

    The error you make is that you don’t make any Russian attacks on R1… At least one should always be possible on normal dice and with some luck even two. Russia is not in such a bad shape as it looks, with all the infantry she can afford to make riskier attacks than you normally would.  wink

    Hmm, not so sure about this Driel310.

    If Germans have tank and arty in Karelia, 3 infantry and 1 arty in baltic states and 6 tanks and two infantry in East Poland where does Russia attack?
       
       I think Artillery or planes might be better for Russia than tanks.  As long as Artillery has infantry to go with it, it adds as much attack power as a tank and does it 20% cheaper.  Planes give Russia some “teeth” for hitting territories that you know won’t hold through to the next German turn.

    Attack and retake Karelia. Plus set up Karelia/Belorussia and Eastern Ukraine as deadzones so Germany is unable to advance further.

    As for the rtl, I agree with you there, a combo of rtl’s + infantry is an attacking punch as well.  😉


  • @General:

    The error you make is that you don’t make any Russian attacks on R1… At least one should always be possible on normal dice and with some luck even two. Russia is not in such a bad shape as it looks, with all the infantry she can afford to make riskier attacks than you normally would.  wink

    Hmm, not so sure about this Driel310.

    If Germans have tank and arty in Karelia, 3 infantry and 1 arty in baltic states and 6 tanks and two infantry in East Poland where does Russia attack?

    How the heck can a German tank AND artillery end up in Karelia after G1? They should’ve gotten there by transport, but that can only take a tank OR an artillery.

    Right…?  :?

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Take Baltic States and Karelia

    NCM the tank to Karelia

    Only way I can think of.


  • whenever I reluctantly play Russia for the first few turns a build purely infantry,this serves  a major speed-bump on the Germans normal KRF strategy


  • You focus too much on russia! I think the race to moscow strategy is totaly nuts. With germany only building tanks and inf in B1 the german fleet will be sunk and the landings in france and norway will start. The United Kingdom will start the strategic bombardment of berlin and the United States might join in. The german tanks will be needed to reconquer france every turn. The key to victory is a balanced strategy on both sides!


  • @Count_Zeppelin:

    The key to victory is a balanced strategy on both sides!

    I agree. I have won playing both sides (1941) and the allies have a strong position. btw why would you buy anything other than maximum units for Russia? Tanks on turn 1? I wouldn’t think of it until I had a stable UK or US presence on the continent.


  • @Count_Zeppelin:

    You focus too much on russia! I think the race to moscow strategy is totaly nuts. With germany only building tanks and inf in B1 the german fleet will be sunk and the landings in france and norway will start. The United Kingdom will start the strategic bombardment of berlin and the United States might join in. The german tanks will be needed to reconquer france every turn. The key to victory is a balanced strategy on both sides!

    Exactly what I am thinking. Everyone seems to be looking for a non-KGF game in AA:50, and are looking for KJF etc…but nooone seems to wonder about a new goal for the Axis.

    I mean, it used to be in AA:R and Classic: With Germany…RACE FOR MOSCOW!
    But could it be that, in AA:50, instead of a KRF-game, it has changed into a KBF…or KUSAF first kinda game?

    Maybe Germany shouldnt go for Russia, but for the UK, who cant survive with USa support, but the USA support is way too occpuied by Japan.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    @oldguard11:

    @Count_Zeppelin:

    The key to victory is a balanced strategy on both sides!

    I agree. I have won playing both sides (1941) and the allies have a strong position. btw why would you buy anything other than maximum units for Russia? Tanks on turn 1? I wouldn’t think of it until I had a stable UK or US presence on the continent.

    Hell yes I would!

    30 IPC: 6 Armor

    Nothing less would do!


  • Hell yes I would!

    30 IPC: 6 Armor

    Nothing less would do!

    Sorry, I’m too chicken for that built! But two tanks, two art and 4 inf would be nice.
    Caucasus is a potential weak spot, and i like to reinforce it and retain the possibility of a backstrike!

    But I like the 6 tank strategy - it really takes on the german


  • @General:

    I think Artillery or planes might be better for Russia than tanks.  As long as Artillery has infantry to go with it, it adds as much attack power as a tank and does it 20% cheaper.  Planes give Russia some “teeth” for hitting territories that you know won’t hold through to the next German turn.

    True - both a inf/tank and inf/art have an initial attack value of 4, BUT, when one of these units are hit (you would take the infantry as the casualty) then you are only attacking with a 2 (art) vs a 3 (tank).  I think they call this “skew”.  So MHO is that (in most cases) a inf/tank is better than a inf/art.
    Thanks.


  • So MHO is that (in most cases) a inf/tank is better than a inf/art.

    As it should be, since the former costs 1 IPC more. Now that the transport cost is the same for an Arty and a Tank, I cant think of a place off hand where the Inf/Arty would be better than Inf/Arm. Is there one?


  • I just played a game this weekend with a buddy of mine.  I was the Axis.  G1 I guilt 4 tanks, 2 art, 1 inf and I took Karelia, Baltic, Egypt (I was left with 2 tanks here - I couldn’t believe it!), E.Poland and Ukraine as well as UK’s BB & tranny and the DD in SZ6.  I landed all my German air force in Norway (I didn’t lose any planes to the anti-aircraft in Karelia thankfully).  On J1 I bought a factory for Manchuria, eliminated China, took Kwang, E.Indies and Borneo.  On G2 I bought a Bomber, 7 tanks, 1 art, 1 inf and took Belorussia, Archangel and E.Ukraine as well as killing the entire British navy (very lucky rolling on my part - I had only expected to damage his navy, not destroy it completely).  On J2 I bought 3 tanks (for Manchuria) a bomber and some small navy units (I can’t remember what it was).  Anyhow, before the combat phase of J2 he called the game!  We had played for only and hour and twenty minutes!
    Now, I just want to say… I had extremely lucky dice.  I never should have done that well that quickly; but it was fun anyway! 
    Just wanted to share…
    Thanks.


  • Those first turn battles are so crucial and I think the luck factor is magnified on that turn. Sending a Sub, 1 plane, 1 bomber to Sz2 and losing puts you at a severe disadvantage. Ditto for the attack on Brits fleet off Gibraltar.

    That first German turn really sets the tone for the game IMO. If Germany wins those battles without getting zapped, she is usually in good shape for the entire early game. If she loses any of those battles via bad dice, things can go down hill very quickly in my experience.


  • @Uncle_Joe:

    Those first turn battles are so crucial and I think the luck factor is magnified on that turn. Sending a Sub, 1 plane, 1 bomber to Sz2 and losing puts you at a severe disadvantage. Ditto for the attack on Brits fleet off Gibraltar.

    That first German turn really sets the tone for the game IMO. If Germany wins those battles without getting zapped, she is usually in good shape for the entire early game. If she loses any of those battles via bad dice, things can go down hill very quickly in my experience.

    I think you are exactly right.

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