No ASW capabilities in destroyers


  • '16

    It surprises me that, unlike AA50, destroyers do not have any ASW capabilities in this Guadalcanal,
    apart of being used in groups.
    That is, 1 BB is as effective hitting a sub as 3 DDs, although it is more risky to involve 1 BB than 3 DDs.

    Anybody already thought a house rule for this ?


  • Official Q&A

    Try this out:

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/256621

    Let me know what you think.


  • '16

    That is exactly what I was looking for: simple, add flavour and fun !

    Thank you very much, Krieghund !

    Why isn’t it already there in a revised rulebook ?  😄


  • Official Q&A

    Thanks.  Since you like that variant, you may like this one as well:

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/326505


  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    The variant rule:

    In this variant, there are two different classes of submarines. Fleet subs are subs in a sea zone with other friendly units (other than subs). These work exactly the same as subs do now. Patrol subs are subs in sea zones without other friendly units (other than subs). These operate a little differently.

    Patrol subs may not be attacked unless they attack first in the same turn. After a patrol sub attacks, any surviving enemy units in the sea zone may fire back on the attacking sub(s) during the Combat phase at its anti-submarine attack power. The unit types’ anti-sub attack powers are as follows:
    Artillery: 0
    Transport: 0
    Submarine: 0
    Destroyer: 2
    Cruiser: 1
    Aircraft Carrier: 0
    Battleship: 0
    Bomber: 2
    Fighter: 1

    This will allow subs operating in fleets to behave as they do now. The fleet offers them the protection of not being subject to a direct counterattack, but it is possible they will be hit in general battle anyway.

    It will also allow subs to work independently of fleets and move “behind the lines” to strike at supply lines and vulnerable ships moving to and from their Base Card without being sunk by artillery or patroling aircraft while en route.

    Subs are not permanently assigned as to type. A fleet sub becomes a patrol sub my moving away from the fleet, and vice versa.

    Maybe make an ASW step?

    6)Move and attack with subs.
    7)Move bombers
    8)Move Fighters
    8a)ASW warfare. If destroyer present conduct ASW attacks (use Krieg’s chart although maybe all planes are 1.)

    Combat sequence step two becomes: Attack sea units excluding subs.

    Would skipping subs though mess up the random casualties too much? Making subs more powerful and bringing down destroyers too much?


  • Official Q&A

    What would you replace subs with on the battle box chart?


  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    @Krieghund:

    What would you replace subs with on the battle box chart?

    Not replace so much as just skip. I guess that would be replacing them with destroyers?  😐

    Hence the question of going up to much for subs and down for destroyers while requiring more destroyers.

    This is why I try to stay away from house rules discussions.  :lol:


  • '16

    Thanks.  Since you like that variant, you may like this one as well:

    http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/326505

    This rule - as well as the hidden movement rule in the official rules - is fine as long as you find an opponent  🙂

    But I wonder if all this hidden movement mechanics becomes a little bit messy with all that bookkeeping, at least to my taste.

    If I ever have an opportunity to play with hidden movement, I’ll include this rule as well and draw conclusions.

    Thanks again


  • '16

    8a)ASW warfare. If destroyer present conduct ASW attacks (use Krieg’s chart although maybe all planes are 1.)

    Thanks for your suggestion, frimmel, but I feel more comfortable not introducing extra steps in combat. I find player aids invaluable to remember these things.

    Like you, I was wondering why heavy bombers seem so powerful in ASW as destroyers in Krieghund’s house rule.


  • Official Q&A

    @warrafael:

    Like you, I was wondering why heavy bombers seem so powerful in ASW as destroyers in Krieghund’s house rule.

    I gave bombers a ‘2’ rating because they have both more range than fighters (allowing more hunting time to “wait out” and spot submerged subs) and weapons better suited to sub hunting than fighters.


  • Official Q&A

    @timerover51:

    I would not give any cruiser ASW capacity in any of the Axis and Allies games as that simply did not exist in WW2.

    I’ve read sources that indicate that some cruisers did have limited ASW capability.  I added this for that reason, and for better play.  Of course, your knowledge and reading on the subject dwarfs mine.

    @timerover51:

    Likewise, Heavy Bombers should not have an ASW capacity unless a tech for it is researched.

    There is no tech research in Guadalcanal.

    @timerover51:

    ASW patrol plane units in WW2 were specifically trained and equipped for that task, and were not really suitable for use as regular bombers.  This would be especially true late in the war when the larger 4-engine patrol planes were carrying sonobouys and electic homing torpedoes.  The US, Great Britain, and interestingly enough, Japan, were also operating aircraft equipped with Magnetic Anomaly Detection equipment that could not be used for any other purpose.

    Of course.  However, in AA we have to generalize, since we don’t have a huge number of unit types.  As such, the functions of some specialized unit types have to be absorbed into other, more generic unit types.  This sort of function fits better into “bombers” than “fighters”.

    The mistake that I may be making here is generalizing capabilities that existed at some point during the war to a specific period of the war.  If ASW air units were not fully evolved yet during the Guadalcanal campaign, then bombers probably shouldn’t have this ability in this particular game.

    @timerover51:

    I basically use the ASW rules in Pacific and the battle board from Pacific for ASW in Guadalcanal.

    How does that work?  Doesn’t it give unrealistically good ASW ability to carriers and battleships?  Or are you talking about house rules from Pacific?


  • Official Q&A

    Thanks for the feedback, Timerover.  I’ll be revisiting this rule when I get a chance to get back to Guadalcanal.



  • I don’t like that the destroyers can’t sink subs,I own pacific,and always if the Japs win at Pearl they always leaves their subs there and I always use my US based carrier and destroyers to take back pearl.But in Guadalcanal,can’t any ship sink a sub though?


  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    @AA:

    I don’t like that the destroyers can’t sink subs,I own pacific,and always if the Japs win at Pearl they always leaves their subs there and I always use my US based carrier and destroyers to take back pearl.But in Guadalcanal,can’t any ship sink a sub though?

    Subs are hit during the attack naval units step. No special requirements unless a hit in their slot on the battle box during combat counts as special. 🙂

    By the way welcome to the board!



  • Thanks,I been reading post for about 2 days now and I decided to join,I’ve been playing A&A for about 3 years now,I my parents bought pacific for me for a Christmas Present a few years ago and since then all of my close friends have bought different versions,I’ve played all versions except Guadalcanal and the Aniverery edition,I just bought guadalcanal and thanks to your thread about the wrong cruisers I wrote them last night about getting the right ones and there sending me them.And I go tomorrow to go play the Aniversery edition with a few friends,were all Axis and allies Junkies.between us all,we own every version that’s out!Including the first version to come out.and of course,we own dupicates of several games,I’m the second to buy Guadalcanal.sorry for the long intro. 😄


  • Official Q&A 2007 AAR League

    @AA:

    sorry for the long intro. 😄

    Long intros are fine but they usually go better with proper punctuation.  😉



  • @frimmel:

    @AA:

    sorry for the long intro. 😄

    Long intros are fine but they usually go better with proper punctuation.  😉

    I know,lol,my mom keeps telling me that.


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