WOPR last edited by
Should Germany have a battleship in sz 5?
I feel like they really should have had one in the 41/42 set ups, so can’t we give them one in 43? You know it would make the naval game more interesting.
germany should definitely have a battleship in a 1941 setup. symbolises their larger fleet before the destruction of the bismarck and the containment of the tirpitz
I completely agree.
how is this going IL? i’ve got some spare time over the next few evenings, so i’m going to go over your map and all of the suggestions and see if i can come up with anything to add
really looking forward to a 1943 set-up
I have been working on new AARHE stuff and have not done anything with 1943. But its in the pipeline by the start of the new year.
bbrett3 last edited by
the problem i would have with a map like this is hat the Allies are overpowered. Historicaly this is when the Axis were just starting to get their butts kicked by everyone at this point and i couldn’t see how you could avoid the same situation(in the game) this late in the war.
bbrett3, i agree with what you’re saying. which is why i think it would be best to set a goal like ‘axis must survive X amount of round to win the game’, or something to that effect (this was mentioned earlier in the thread)
otherwise, you could always just set a few goals for each nation. which ever side accomplishes the most goals on their side wins the game
axis must survive X amount of round to win the game
This is exactly what needs to be done. The disadvantage in material is to be made up with some unique rules:
SS panzer tanks
Automated techs for Germany and others
Hitler assassination rules
some fog of war rules for Germany to simulate
what point in 1943 do we want to start the setup at? early, mid, late?
ok, i’ve been doing a bit of research and pondering. this is what i’ve come up with so far (apologies for listing things that have already been mentioned as well, but i’m just making one big representation to help everyone):
set the time at the start of April, 1943. going off the 1941 board setup (so the territories marked), these would be the territory changes (i know you made a map IL, but i think some of the control markers weren’t right):
- Germany places control markers on the territories Baltic States, Belorussia, East Poland, and Ukraine
- Japan places control markers on the territories Fukien, Kwangtung, Burma, East Indies, Borneo, Philippine Islands, and Wake Island
- UK places a control marker on the territory Morocco Algeria (i felt UK did more in Africa than USA, so they should get the territory). but in regards to this, does everyone feel Tunisia (the last place of German and Italian forces in Africa) is more located in Libya?
- Advanced Artillery (Russia starts with this)
- Rockets (Germany unlocks these automatically on turn 4)
- Paratroopers (USA and Germany both start with this)
- Increased IC (USA starts with this, Germany unlocks on turn 3 to represent spread out industrial capacity, and Albert Speer taking over armarment production)
- War Bonds (USA either starts with this, or unlocks it. thoughts?)
- Mechanized Infantry (Russia and Germany both start with this)
- Super Submarines (Japan and Germany both start with this)
- Jet Fighters (Germany unlocks this on round 2)
- Radar (UK starts with this. Should Germany unlock it in round 2 or 3?)
- Heavy Bombers (USA unlocks this on turn 3)
i think some special rules are in order, as we mentioned earlier, but we need to decide on what ones. here are some i was thinking about:
- Russian infantry attack on 2 without artillery after a certain round (so on round 2 and onwards), to represent the massive man-power the Russians utilised in the second half of the war.
- Partisans in axis territories (not including capitals). something like roll 1 die for every 4 units garrisoned at the end of a round. partisans need to roll a 1 to hit, and defender can choose casualties like a normal fight
- Germany can place 2 of its purchased units into any controlled territory (that was held at the start of its turn) to symbolise the spread of industrial capacity
- Italy conceeding. something like roll 1 die in round 4. if 2 or less, Italy becomes neutral for the rest of the game. any Germany or Japanese forces in Italian territory can withdraw to a friendly territory. any Allied units can retreat to a friendly territory, or by sea onto free transports. if this is not possible, then they are taken off the board. All Italian units are taken off the board
- Japanese infantry defending on an Island defend on a 3
so what does everyone think? once we sort this out, we can try to agree on unit placement
During my sleep i thought about this idea for VC:
To foster the political influence that directly influenced the pattern of strategy only one coalition can “win” the game and the rest place 2nd , or 3rd
Basically the game is 4 factions and 2 fronts: western allies, Germany/Italy, Japan, and Soviets with the European and Pacific fronts.
In each front you add up the points you receive to determine a winner and 2nd , 3rd, etc.
In Europe we assign points as follows:
Hold Germany for a complete game turn= 9 points
each originally controlled German or Italian territory=1 point
Control France and not let it get recaptured = 3 points
Hold Germany for a complete game turn= 9 points
each originally controlled German or Italian territory=1 point
Control of each non-Soviet pre 1941 Territory= 2 points
Hold Germany till turn 5= 3 points
for each turn after turn 5 they hold award 3 points to German player. Example: on turn 8 they get 9 points
Hold any part of Italy= 2 points
Each originally controlled territory you also control in addition to the aforementioned award 1 point.
In Pacific we assign points as follows:
Each original Japanese territory (including islands) captured= 1 point
Invade Japan and capture= 9 points
Recapture Philippines= 2 points
capture mainland japanese occupied territory= points = to IPC value of these territories. This may include Chinese or formerly British colonies.
control Japan till turn 6= 3 points
each turn they control japan after turn 6 award 1 point
Award 1 point for each territory they control on mainland
Award one point for controlling Philippines after turn 6
Now each coalition adds up the total points in both theaters. In the case of Axis, Germany and Japan are added to determine the result.
up to 6 total elite panzers can be created at the rate of one per turn and not more than 6 can be in play at any time. The are 4-5 units moving 2 and cost 7 you can also convert any armor unit to this elite status by paying 3 IPC
conversion can take place at the end of your turn.
Soviet Shock Armies:
up to 6 total elite troops can be created at the rate of one per turn and not more than 6 can be in play at any time. These are 4-4 units moving 2 and cost 6.
Germany gets to hide X amount of forces off the map and must write down where they are hidden or move to. If in combat the allies attack this area, they fight all the units as they are now exposed. Also, in combat the German player can surprise the allies with his counter offensive…again only once per game.
Starting on turn 3 or latter, the German player has the option to roll for an attempt on Hitlers life. 1-3 attempt succeeds, 4-6 attempt fails.
If it fails:
If it succeeds:
1)all SS panzer units on the board are reconverted immediately to normal units. You no longer can build these units.
2)Germans get war bonds technology
- The Germans now have the option of concluding a separate piece with the western allies. If they choose this path, they immediately receive 3 points and acquiesce to giving the western allies the territory of Germany outright.
The German player also receives points in accordance with his other victory conditions, but he may never return to Germany and instead must get his points from continuing to fight the Soviet player only.
This means they are giving UK/ USA 9 points in the game. The German forces are at the command of the western allies as a new ally, however they are still played by the German player and play on the German turn.
the Germans can also decline this option, but it is their decision alone. They can bargain for some ‘arrangement’ with the western allies, but it may not be a binding decision. Essentially, the German player can play the power broker for post war Europe.
- The Soviets do not have to accept this decision. They may attack Germany themselves but must do so within one turn of the new Anglo-German arrangement. This is basically triggering WW3 and both the Soviets and western allies fight over Germany. If either faction controls it for 1 complete turn they are awarded the points.
Of course other territories can be fought over and the German/Italian player can still get points for holding territories other than Germany/Italy.
Also by turn 6 id give the US player two A- Bombs, in order to deploy them he must have heavy bombers tech.
The first bomb dropped roll 3 D6= lost units worth of IPC, The second bomb roll 5 D6= lost units IPC. The attacker chooses loses and they must be as close as possible to total w/o going over total. Each turn following they get one additional bomb to drop and use 5 D6 results.
of course normal AA rules apply.
Each time you drop this weapon on an enemies original home capital roll one die: and the result is lost Victory Points.
If you drop it on a territory that was liberated, or not a capital territory, then that player is just losing pieces and not Victory points.
Japan can use its fighters to crash into enemy naval vessels. Each fighter now attacks at 4 and selects a naval target. If it hits or misses the fighter is destroyed, but the hit allocation goes to the selected unit.
one Japanese battleship now takes 3 hits and is a 5/5 unit
They can build a second unit for 24 IPC, but no more than 2 on the map at any one time
Japanese Carrier/ Battleships: BBAV
up to one battleship ( not the dreadnought) can accommodate one fighter like a carrier.
Japanese Island defenders:
Each small island can only accommodate up to 2 land units and each defends at +1, The invading player can invade with any number, but only capture the small island with 2 land units. Small islands are the obvious small territories on the map. They don’t include japan, dutch east Indies, Borneo, etc. They include Caroline, Wake, Midway, Marianas, Hawaii, Okinawa
Using the d-day pieces, these can be placed in any land territory even if you do not have a factory. They fire twice at 3 (like an AA gun roll against attacking land units but every round). They can protect up to two units requiring 2 hits to kill. These cost 6 IPC and only one per territory can be built
The German player can decide to make a last stand in the Bavarian alps at any point in the game. All SS units are immediately placed in Hungary/Czechoslovakia and the German factory is moved to this location. This is a special factory that cannot be bombed of its IPC because its considered underground. The new territory gets 2 IPC, but the German player gets a one d6 worth of extra cash each turn but placement of forces is still limited to 2 per turn.
game start is spring 43.
2 turns per year so turn 2 is fall 1943,
d-day would be turn 3
bulge turn 4
hitler goes bye bye turn 5
so the game should go for how many rounds? 6, 7, 8?
i think 7 or 8