Rockets



  • Hi all,

    Just picked up AA50 today and I’m looking forward to playing it. In reading through the rules, I see one thing that immediately stands out to me concerning Rockets (research). In AAR (initial release), there was no limit to the amount of damage scored by Rockets on enemy Industrial Complexes. In our first game of AAR, one player was able to easily abuse that by getting Rockets, building a few AA Guns (1 per territory in range of Brit/Russian Complexes) and getting 4-5 d6 damage on England and Russia each turn. This quickly was identified as a game screw and the errata (and LHTR) put a cap on the number of times an IC could be hit by Rockets to 1/turn regardless of how many AA guns were in range.

    Looking at the Rockets rules in AA50, it looks like its right back to where we were with initial AAR Rockets. Granted there are some other changes made (you no longer choose tech, but roll randomly and SBR has been slightly overhauled with the reduction to capacity rather than IPCs), but it still seems at first glance to be very abusable. Sure it will take a good roll to get the tech, but the ‘all or nothing’ risk is gone from research so that sort of balances back. Also, yes, it will likely take a turn or two to reach the point where the Rockets are costing real money, but it will reach the point eventually.

    So, is it intended that ICs can be hit by multiple Rockets each turn as in original AAR? If so, are there any safeguards that I’m overlooking on this to prevent it from being as badly unbalanced as it was in AAR?

    Thanks!


  • Official Answers

    Yes, they can be hit by multiple rocket attacks, but remember that only one AA gun per territory can fire, so those attacks must come from different territories.  Also, there is a built-in damage cap on ICs that didn’t exist in AAR.



  • @Krieghund:

    Yes, they can be hit by multiple rocket attacks, but remember that only one AA gun per territory can fire, so those attacks must come from different territories.  Also, there is a built-in damage cap on ICs that didn’t exist in AAR.

    There are 6 territories that start out under German control that are within Rocket range of the UK.  They are Germany, Northwestern Europe, France, Norway, Finland, and Poland.  Germany starts with an AA gun on Germany.  If Germany gets Rockets, for the cost of 30 IPC, two and a half bombers, they could make 6 Rocket attacks on the UK for an average damage per turn of 21.  I understand that the damage is capped at 16, but that still means that the UK will be spending 16 IPC on repair every turn, and trying to stay competitive with what is left.  Fire from those same 6 territories can also hit the Russian industrial complex in Karelia.  Redeployed forward, the same can be done to the Russian IC in Caucasus and Russia.  Personally, if I am the one of the Allied players, and Germany gets that, I walk away from the game at that point.  The Allies cannot do the same to Germany.  This rule is badly broken.



  • @timerover51:

    @Krieghund:

    Yes, they can be hit by multiple rocket attacks, but remember that only one AA gun per territory can fire, so those attacks must come from different territories.  Also, there is a built-in damage cap on ICs that didn’t exist in AAR.

    There are 6 territories that start out under German control that are within Rocket range of the UK.  They are Germany, Northwestern Europe, France, Norway, Finland, and Poland.  Germany starts with an AA gun on Germany.  If Germany gets Rockets, for the cost of 30 IPC, two and a half bombers, they could make 6 Rocket attacks on the UK for an average damage per turn of 21.  I understand that the damage is capped at 16, but that still means that the UK will be spending 16 IPC on repair every turn, and trying to stay competitive with what is left.  Fire from those same 6 territories can also hit the Russian industrial complex in Karelia.  Redeployed forward, the same can be done to the Russian IC in Caucasus and Russia.  Personally, if I am the one of the Allied players, and Germany gets that, I walk away from the game at that point.  The Allies cannot do the same to Germany.  This rule is badly broken.

    Controlling all 6 is an easy task?  While spending another $30 on additional AAA guns (5 @ $6 each), not to mention getting the rockets tech itself.

    Doesn’t seem like a auto-win strat to me.



  • It is unlikely that Germany would spend that much in a single round without consequences on the battlefield.  It would also take another round to move them from the factory.
    The Allies might respond in kind and cirlce AA guns around Germany

    I could see the rocket strategy working better if Germany already had a couple of AA guns produced and ahead on the battlefront



  • @axis_roll:

    @timerover51:

    @Krieghund:

    Yes, they can be hit by multiple rocket attacks, but remember that only one AA gun per territory can fire, so those attacks must come from different territories.  Also, there is a built-in damage cap on ICs that didn’t exist in AAR.

    There are 6 territories that start out under German control that are within Rocket range of the UK.  They are Germany, Northwestern Europe, France, Norway, Finland, and Poland.  Germany starts with an AA gun on Germany.  If Germany gets Rockets, for the cost of 30 IPC, two and a half bombers, they could make 6 Rocket attacks on the UK for an average damage per turn of 21.  I understand that the damage is capped at 16, but that still means that the UK will be spending 16 IPC on repair every turn, and trying to stay competitive with what is left.  Fire from those same 6 territories can also hit the Russian industrial complex in Karelia.  Redeployed forward, the same can be done to the Russian IC in Caucasus and Russia.  Personally, if I am the one of the Allied players, and Germany gets that, I walk away from the game at that point.  The Allies cannot do the same to Germany.  This rule is badly broken.

    Controlling all 6 is an easy task?  While spending another $30 on additional AAA guns (5 @ $6 each), not to mention getting the rockets tech itself.

    Doesn’t seem like a auto-win strat to me.

    They start out controllling all six territories, and automatically have the AA gun in Germany.  Instead of buying one bomber, they buy two AA guns on a turn. move the AA gun from Germany to Northwestern Europe, and fire from there.  Next turn, move two AA guns from Germany to France and Poland and fire from there while buying two more AA guns.  By then, Germany will likely control the Baltic States, that can also hit England, and if they want to, put an AA gun in Italy and fire from there.  The UK can basically be taken out of the game, with no possible counter to the attacks.  AA guns cannot be destroyed, and the Rocket technology cannot be countered.  If Germany gets the Rocket technology, rocket attacks that cannot be countered and do not cost bombers to execute can basically destroy the industrial production of the UK and the USSR.



  • Ok, after a few turns, Germany can inflict -16 on the UK in London.  It will take several turns since AA guns can not fire in combat and move later in non combat.

    Germany’s investment of tech dice plus 30 ipc for AA Guns.  (2-3 round ROI)

    I am sure this would result in a change for Allied Strategy once this tech was achieved.



  • Hey, Rockets doesn’t seem stronger than Heavy bombers in my opinion. At least the Allies can take out the areas that those AAs are positioned in whereas Germany will just have to watch their ICs being vaporized and the only hope is the faint one of getting Improved production or Radar. Fair is fair, Germany should be able to get Rockets if Heavy bombers are what they are…  :x



  • I was just looking up the rules for anti-air, and it only states that one can fire in each territory at enemy aircraft, by my interpretations it sounds like multiple rockets could fire per turn in each territory



  • @Uncle_Joe:

    So, is it intended that ICs can be hit by multiple Rockets each turn as in original AAR? If so, are there any safeguards that I’m overlooking on this to prevent it from being as badly unbalanced as it was in AAR?

    I’m not so sure - if Germany has money to throw on research and AA guns, chances are they are already on track to winning the game…?

    We run a house rule where there are three levels of tech for rockets.

    Stage 1 is as current rules.
    Stage 2 is rockets roll two dice
    Stage 3 is rockets have three dice (this represents that long range one they were working on to hit new york)

    We basically came up with lots of cool techs to try and get them to waste money on techs as Hilter did - or at least give the Germans this big temptation of war winning wonder weapons.

    We also use a rule that tech tokens are 5 IPC - but you only keep those that you roll a ‘5’ for, all those that roll 1,2 or 3 are discaded - if you happen to roll two sixes, you keep one token and then roll for it again next turn.

    So it brings back some of the possibility to waste your money on tech, but also I liked the tech carry over function.



  • According to the Errata file this thread is overcome by the new rules.  The inserted text on page 12, states that each factory can only be hit by one rocket per turn?

    So, Germany can only hit UK for 1-6 damage per turn.



  • The UK could be hit by one rocket PER TERRITORY each turn. So if they were firing from muliple places you can hit it for up to 16 damage.

    I think thats what Kreig said. I’d laugh if the FAQ needs revising too.



  • @Stockus13:

    The UK could be hit by one rocket PER TERRITORY each turn. So if they were firing from muliple places you can hit it for up to 16 damage.

    I think thats what Kreig said. I’d laugh if the FAQ needs revising too.

    You need to read better:
    Page 12, Breakthrough Chart 1 - Rockets: The following sentence should be added: “In each turn, only
    one AA gun per territory may launch rockets, and each industrial complex can be attacked by only one
    rocket launcher.”


  • Official Answers

    Yes, that’s what I said, and it was true at the time.  However it was subsequently decided that multiple rocket attacks against the same territory was too powerful.  Thus, it was changed in the FAQ.  As I recall, this is the only rule that’s actually been changed since the game was published.



  • @Krieghund:

    Yes, that’s what I said, and it was true at the time.  However it was subsequently decided that multiple rocket attacks against the same territory was too powerful.  Thus, it was changed in the FAQ.  As I recall, this is the only rule that’s actually been changed since the game was published.

    That was the restriction applied to Revised via LHTR.  This is a good thing.



  • OK, thanks for the update. I figured it was only a matter of time until this got changed. The potential for abuse is just far too great IMO. SBR is already deadly enough. Allowing it for risk free annihilation of your opponent’s production capability (even on a lucky roll to get the tech) is just too much.

    Thanks again!



  • I just want to get this right. When U say rocket/ turn do u mean that teams turn or he cant be hit by anymore rockets until his turn?

    Also I need to know if the 1 rocket/ territory also applies if two teams have a rockets in a territory.
    If U.S. & U.K. both had an AA in England; could they both hit Germany with rockets through 1 cycle?


  • 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 '14 '13 Official Answers TripleA Moderator

    According to the rules a round of play consists of 1 turn of each nation. So Germany can be hit by rockets in UK’s turn and US’ turn, too, as these are different turns.
    HTH 🙂


  • Official Answers

    P@nther is correct.  Each power has its own turn, and a full set of turns makes up a round.  In your example, the UK and the US could both fire on Germany, since they firing occurs on different turns.


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