Paratroopers



  • i played aa50 yesterday with some friends… the german developed paratroopers in his first round. having played with paratroopers in revised already (when they were only able to transport inf during non combat movement) no one of us thought about those beeing a threat untill there were 9 bombers landing in London lol

    i wonder though… is it really intended that bombers can also pickup their cargo along the way? (its not really mentioned in the rules… but neither denied)
    germany is now able to permanently threaten uk without having a navy.



  • I don’t see why you couldn’t.  Even today the US army and Air Force don’t keep the paratroopers and the planes on the same base.

    Fort Bragg has Pope Air Force Base.

    LT


  • Official Answers

    The infantry and bomber must begin their movement in the same territory.  This will be in the FAQ.



  • I don’t get this rule:

    on p12: Breakthrough Chart

    “3. Paratroopers……The Bomber may still attack during the Conduct
    Combat phase, but it cannot make a strategic bombing run in a turn that
    it transports an infantry unit….”

    So this rule is telling us that the Bomber may transport an infantry unit, only during the combat movement phase, and then it may still do a normal attack i.e.bomb after it throws out it’s paratroopers?

    In other words: it may still attack/bomb as normal after it’s paratroopers jump, but it may not attack as a strategic bomber after it’s paratroopers jump.

    Is that right?

    Also, since the rule uses the words “your bombers can act as a transport,” may the bombers deliver it’s cargo of infantry to friendly territory instead of dropping them as paratroopers? Japan can reinforce islands with infantry by air instead of by sea???



  • thx krieg, we kinda assumed that but werent sure 😄
    what may also need some clarification is: “the bombers must stop in the first hostile territory”. does that include hostile SZs?


  • Official Answers

    @Constantinople:

    I don’t get this rule:

    on p12: Breakthrough Chart

    “3. Paratroopers……The Bomber may still attack during the Conduct
    Combat phase, but it cannot make a strategic bombing run in a turn that
    it transports an infantry unit….”

    So this rule is telling us that the Bomber may transport an infantry unit, only during the combat movement phase, and then it may still do a normal attack i.e.bomb after it throws out it’s paratroopers?

    In other words: it may still attack/bomb as normal after it’s paratroopers jump, but it may not attack as a strategic bomber after it’s paratroopers jump.

    Is that right?

    Yes, and it must attack the same territory in which it dropped the paratrooper.

    @Constantinople:

    Also, since the rule uses the words “your bombers can act as a transport,” may the bombers deliver it’s cargo of infantry to friendly territory instead of dropping them as paratroopers? Japan can reinforce islands with infantry by air instead of by sea???

    No.  Paratroopers may only be used in combat.


  • Official Answers

    @Sondrax:

    thx krieg, we kinda assumed that but werent sure 😄
    what may also need some clarification is: “the bombers must stop in the first hostile territory”. does that include hostile SZs?

    No.



  • Forget about the problem with heavy bombers. I say partroopers are potentialy more gamebreaking, and is
    my number one concern regarding the technologies.

    Germany might take London with it. If you go for a strat using bombers and hope for
    paratroopers, its not that unlikely to take London as if you get paratroopers at a lukcy point London might be very poorly defended.

    But just think about what USA/UK/JAPAN might do with it:
    They may take the majority of the pacific islands without building a single transport.

    And I’m sure its 1000 creative ways of using the paratrooper in totaly stupid ways.
    Take Brazil, then from there threaten USA?

    Long-range aircraft+paratroopers: Invasion of Japan by placing troops in alaska?

    Sure paratroopers had a role in the war, but not as implemented in Axis and allies



  • @Greand:

    But just think about what USA/UK/JAPAN might do with it:
    They may take the majority of the pacific islands without building a single transport.

    And I’m sure its 1000 creative ways of using the paratrooper in totaly stupid ways.
    Take Brazil, then from there threaten USA?

    Long-range aircraft+paratroopers: Invasion of Japan by placing troops in alaska?

    Sound like a fun tactic.  And that’s my point it’s fun not hisotrical - if you want hisotrical you’ll need to make a house rule or you could play Europe Engulfed - that’s a very fun hisotrical game but plan on spending 10+ hours in playing…



  • “It’s raining Falschrimjager! To the Bofors!”

    No but I agree there are going to be some really cool strategies with Paratroopers, and no doubt some really funny ones.
    But it is going to hurt when a couple fully laden bombers get shot down :-(Thats a hefty amount of IPC’s gone in one round.



  • well 12 IPC for a bomber is not much in AA50, with those NOs theres generally much more money available than it was in revised. having 50-60 income seems to be the norm for US, germany and jap. russia also remains around 30 for a long time. even italy should get 20+ for a few rounds at least… UK prolly wont stay at its 43IPC starting income, but should remain above 30ish anyway.



  • If you are playing UK and suddenly out of the blue german gets partroopers by a lucky dice and then german manage to capture LONDON, THAT is NOT fun at all.



  • yeah true hehe… since techs now come into effect immediatly, german paratroopers are a threat even though they are not on the board yet.
    lets say germany saved some money and has 65IPC at its hands… 5 for the tech + some luck = 5 bombers/inf in london right this turn. thats an attack value of 25, so UK should  always have a def value of 30+ in london… thats 15 inf, or at least 45 IPC bound to this territory. a lot more if germany developed heavy bombers prior that.
    if japan or italy are in control of wcan or panama and germany also has long range, the same counts for washington and germany doesnt even need a single ship.
    needless to say that moscow and stalingrad need to live with this in mind as well.

    ofc this works both ways, but with the axis capitols beeing surrounded by water or other “big” territories, its just not that imminent.

    i think this just needs some sort of house rule…


  • '10

    I am very happy to see this old HOUSE RULE implemented in the game.  I have not used it yet to much effect but it will lead to some interesting strategies.  The fact that LONDON, BRAZIL and even the USA are threatened by them makes the game more dynamic in my line of thought.



  • With all due respect, Germany having 5 bombers is not something one would see in every game.

    It’s more likely Japan in the end game gets it and lands her bombers in Berlin, but then , you don’t have any infantry to load…  :roll:

    In another example you state that Germany has long range and then Japan has Panama or Western Canada… hmmm, another situation which won’t happen that often.

    As for taking Russia, don’t forget that the bombers have to stop in the first hostile territory they enter, so as long as there is no clear path to Moscow, the Kremlin is safe from Paratroopers.

    All in all, do not overrate para’s that much.  😉 (besides, tech is random, so it’s not something you can take into account with, same as getting Heavies just before a major Pacific fleet battle…) 😉



  • well germany could just buy those 5 bombers AFTER it developed paratroopers (in the same turn though… since techs now come into effect immediatly).
    UK, US, jap and germany baught 2 of those research tokens and just rolled each round. thats pretty cheap and you get one tech every 3 rounds (in average)

    i know its very unlikely for most capitols, but for london its a pretty high risk. i will for sure keep it in mind from now on at least…and i think you will too, after you suddenly see german paratroopers in london while the UK player already warms up the dice for his r&d tokens 😛



  • One question about paratroopers:

    I assume AA-guns are considered being fired before the bombers drop their passengers. So if an AA-gun hit a bomber with a paratrooper, both the bomber and the infantry are considered destroyed, right?


  • Official Answers

    Correct.



  • @Sondrax:

    well germany could just buy those 5 bombers AFTER it developed paratroopers (in the same turn though… since techs now come into effect immediatly).
    UK, US, jap and germany baught 2 of those research tokens and just rolled each round. thats pretty cheap and you get one tech every 3 rounds (in average)

    i know its very unlikely for most capitols, but for london its a pretty high risk. i will for sure keep it in mind from now on at least…and i think you will too, after you suddenly see german paratroopers in london while the UK player already warms up the dice for his r&d tokens 😛

    Sure but you can’t use those newly bought bombers until the next round. And by that time unless the UK player fell asleep he should defend London from those para’s. It’s no longer a surprise.  😉



  • aye… maybe i got a little too worked up about that “surprise” thing… but considering germany usually also has 5+ fighters available and also at least 1 bomber right away… even if UK can build 8 tanks as defense, its gonna be tough to defend within 1 turn.

    point is, the UK has to start binding a lot more IPC to london.



  • Last night in our game Germany got Paratroopers but not until mid-game.  By then they didn’t have any bombers so to use the Paratroopers they had to build some, they built 2, spending almost an entire turns worth or production.  This production would have been beter spent on infantry and tanks.  The paratroopers did take an undefended Norway and Finland, which divered two Russian tanks but otherwsie were not overly effective.  Ceratinly, the tech came to late to consider a drop onto London - and that’s the real issue, you can’t plan for tech.  You can spend a ton of money trying to “get” a roll on the chart then it’s random.  A strategy based on “getting” a tech will almost allways fail.

    Now if Germany we lucky and got paratroopters early say on turn 1 or 2 then built around using them, then maybe they’d get lucky again and take London but that’s needing allot of luck.



  • I must agree that a bomber filled with paratroopers also has a pay load of bombs too.

    Me and my co-players think that a bomber can’t attack when filled with paratroopers.
    4 me it justifies the whole infantry issue. If a whole bomber SQUADRON (unit) is filled with men and the bombers can’t attack. If U want an attacking bomber with paratroopers build extra bombers. Or attack with whatever remaining aircraft U have.

    This way all the Bumbers can go cryin to mommy that they can’t win the game by just buying bombers. 😢



  • @Greand:

    Germany might take London with it. If you go for a strat using bombers and hope for
    paratroopers, its not that unlikely to take London as if you get paratroopers at a lukcy point London might be very poorly defended.

    … After reading all this I am rally thinking that it might be better to play without the tech… I hate loosing because of a dominant tech. And this technology seems poorer than most tech - even worse than Rockets and Havy Bombers.

    Taking London with only fallschirmjägers or Berlin with only paratroopers is just impossible in my eyes. Rangers are to light equipped and would be out of supply in a short while. In my eyes, being a real Jäger, it seems difficult to coordinate such a massive drop, and total suicide to carry out an infantry assault on a capital without massive heavy equipment like artillery and panzer.

    A&A is not a detailed game, and shouldn’t be, but one does not have to make it totally unrealistic…

    Is it possible to modify the rules a little bit? Perhaps:

    1. Bombers who transport paratroopers cannot participate in the battle (JU52, DC-3).
    2. Paratroopers is a separate unit that must be built after the research breakthrough (one may mark paratroopers with a tip-ex dot). After the drop, paratroopers act as any Infantry unit. 1/2/1 at a cost of 5 IPC.


  • I really enjoy the paratrooper technology.  It seems people cry game breaking when something strays the game so far from the standard moves each country should be able to make.  I think Germany and Russia trading land while Germany tries to wait for Japan to creep up behind Russia can get redundant.  With technology people can break from that mold.  Like FMG said, it makes the game dynamic.  This of course is from my view of the game as a mere mortal who plays with brothers and cousins.  They never really get to play much or frequent the forums.  So sometimes we are left with some really weird scenarios that rarely follow what a country’s player “should” do.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    This is why I have been saying for months now the most powerful technology in the game are Paratroopers!  No other technology allows you to threaten such a wide area of the board without moving your units from your capitol; nor to immediately add a significant amount of cannon fodder to a major attack, nor to snipe National Objectives by picking up undefended territories around the board, and upgrade the technology multiple times with other technologies! (Long Range Aircraft + Heavy Bombers + Paratroopers = Ungodly Power!)

    This is not to say that it’s unbalanced or broken though!  The allies can get defenses against these bombers just like against Heavy Bombers and Jet Fighters, etc…we call it Radar.    The allies can also just defend their territories better and go slower if they have too, or they can get their own paratroopers and return the favor.  (I am of course, assuming it’s Germany that gets Paratroopers for the purposes of this discussion, it could be Italy or Russia or someone else, I’m just limiting my discussion to Germany since it applies equally well to all nations and reduces the amount of typing by 5/6ths.)

    Paratroopers also have a severe limitation of only being usable during combat and forcing you to pick up infantry from the same territory your bomber is currently located in.  (Also the inability to SBR which was discussed previously and thus not discussed again.)  That prevents you from dropping reinforcements on the front lines and restricts your ability to move copious quantities of infantry into combat at a time.  After all, Germany, at maximum production (ie with Improved Production Technology) can only produce 12 Infantry in Germany per round.  So if you have 48 Bombers in Germany at the end of your round and 144 IPC to spend (the amount needed to build 48 Infantry), you’d still only have 12 Infantry that could be dropped as paratroopers because the other 36 bombers could not move to other territories, pick up units, and drop them.

    Also, it’s beneficial to your opponent that paratroopers can only drop infantry.  At least the counter attacks are easier.  And of course, as alluded to before, AA Guns and Radar shoot down the paratrooper AND the bomber when they hit so the person with paratroopers technology has to account for that in his figures. (So far the Anniversary Dice Calculator does not account for paratroopers, as far as I know.)


    But yes, I do believe of all the technologies in the game, Paratroopers are the most powerful.  Paratroopers + Long Range Aircraft is more powerful still and Paratroopers + Long Range Aircraft + Heavy Bombers is game over for the side that does not have the three combined, IMHO.


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