Balancing Pacific and European theaters


  • Well, now we have both setups and would be nice to start some discussion on how we think of the strategy for the '42 setup. My only impression of the game in practice is three test games with the '41 scenario, so all this is speculative and I will only get my hands on the game next week.

    1. An India IC seems quite defendable now that Japan only has 1 TRS in Sea of Japan. A turn 2 attack only musters 4 inf and 1 tank at the maximum and that should be able to be covered. You can defend India with 4 infantry and 2 fighters (from Egypt & Australia), and maybe some supportive Russians infs. But of course Japan can amass a very large air support so it’s not a sure thing.

    2. Overall balance of spending between theaters. I will guess that both UK and US could spend 2/3 of money on Europe/Africa and really put pressure on Germany and Italy quickly. They have 4 TRS and 4 BMB already at start and a combined SBR and Amphibious strategy would be quick to put into action. There should be one naval stack around Baltic Sea and one around West Med so that the Scandinavia/Karelia front is threatened as well as Algeria and the Italian National objectives.

    3. My guess is that India and Hawaii can be defended by 15-20 IPCs / turn each by UK and USA. I suppose that Russia and China both keep up a land pressure on Japan, and given their meagre land forces at-start Japan should be quite tied down until India starts to produce.

    4. Japan should be able to grab Australia and maybe that’s the easiest way for the Japs to up their IPCs and start to challenge the Allies. Japan’s task in the '42 scenario is more to disrupt Allied strategy and distract from Europe than to go for Moscow as we’re used to seeing. The goal would be to allow for Germany and Italy to finish off Russia on their own. Clearly a more difficult strategy than in AAR or the '41 scenario and the Japanese might be forced to make some quite risky attacks to put the Allies off balance.

    What do you think?  🙂


  • I have seen Japan roll China quickly and take India… it upped their IPCs enough to have three battleships with various cruisers/destroyers/subs/Aircraft carriers w/ fighters… Very very risky if the United States focuses on putting Pressure on Germany/Italy.  IMO, UK needs to consolidate its African forces to Egypt, blow up the German Fleet, and industrial bomb Italy. Italy doesn’t start with a lot of IPCs, thus making it repair its factory each turn really hurts their effort, and hinders their ability to leave Italy/Balkans.

    United States should fully focus on Japan. If the US is throwing enough Pressure on Japan, Japan worries less about taking China, and more about defending against the US. Russia needs to pump  out infantry each turn, and not worry about anything. Russia needs to bleed German forces and force the Germans to defend with valuable ground units.

    My point being, if you hinder Japans ability to gain a lot of IPCs, and you trap Italy in Italy… you beat the Axis. If you put a bomber in Alaska (I’m not sure yet) I think you can industrial bomb the hell out of Japan. Which should let you have an edge over them with IPCs, allowing your fleet to become more and more larger than Japan’s Each turn. China STARTS WITH ONE FIGHTER, this is immensely import to keep alive. It makes taking China a bit harder.

    Eventually the UK and secure Africa, invade Italy, get reinforced by Russian Infantry, and bomb Germany. This in turn lets the Soviets advance into Poland. You have basically thrown Germany into France, Northwestern Europe, and Germany… (assuming you sent some Russians to get Norway/Finland. Bam, you beat the Germans. Russians attack the Japs from China, UK starts invading the Asian islands, United States sends its fleet to the sea Zone Japan is in, hindering Japans ability to actually defend its islands from the UK. Russia garrisons the borders of China… and I guess you can get crazy and start building a fleet at this point but whatever.


  • @MasterChief096:

    I have seen Japan roll China quickly and take India… it upped their IPCs enough to have three battleships with various cruisers/destroyers/subs/Aircraft carriers w/ fighters… Very very risky if the United States focuses on putting Pressure on Germany/Italy.  IMO, UK needs to consolidate its African forces to Egypt, blow up the German Fleet, and industrial bomb Italy. Italy doesn’t start with a lot of IPCs, thus making it repair its factory each turn really hurts their effort, and hinders their ability to leave Italy/Balkans.

    That does seem to be the way to go for the Allies, but you are painting a very positive picture.

    United States should fully focus on Japan. If the US is throwing enough Pressure on Japan, Japan worries less about taking China, and more about defending against the US.

    USA going for Japan, wont be making Japan take on China any less. In J1, japan can get enough units positioned to take on China. Without any further investment on this front, Japan should easily make it to Chinghai before being stopped there.
    By then, Japan’s income will have outgrown USA’s, especially if NO’s are in play.
    If USA wants to pose a threat to Japan, they need to invest EVERYTHING. And as others stated, without USA help in Europe, the European theatre will heavily benefit the Axis.

    Russia needs to pump  out infantry each turn, and not worry about anything. Russia needs to bleed German forces and force the Germans to defend with valuable ground units.

    German’s production > Russia’s. The only advantage Russia has, is the sheer amout of attacking units from the start available, and the long way from Berlin to Moscow.
    Only INF’s for Russia, will be their death. Over time, you will lose your attacking units, as Germany is constantly pumping out tanks and fighters.

    My point being, if you hinder Japans ability to gain a lot of IPCs,

    How?

    and you trap Italy in Italy…

    UK focusing on Italy, and no USA help? Germany will have a field day, and even possibily set up an effective Operation Sealion.

    you beat the Axis. If you put a bomber in Alaska (I’m not sure yet) I think you can industrial bomb the hell out of Japan.

    2 transport’s shucking from Japan to Alaska = a dead bomber.

    Which should let you have an edge over them with IPCs,

    Not an edge. Maybe get on par at best.

    allowing your fleet to become more and more larger than Japan’s Each turn. China STARTS WITH ONE FIGHTER,

    which is dead at J1

    this is immensely import to keep alive. It makes taking China a bit harder.

    Eventually the UK and secure Africa, invade Italy, get reinforced by Russian Infantry, and bomb Germany. This in turn lets the Soviets advance into Poland. You have basically thrown Germany into France, Northwestern Europe, and Germany…. (assuming you sent some Russians to get Norway/Finland. Bam, you beat the Germans. Russians attack the Japs from China, UK starts invading the Asian islands, United States sends its fleet to the sea Zone Japan is in, hindering Japans ability to actually defend its islands from the UK. Russia garrisons the borders of China… and I guess you can get crazy and start building a fleet at this point but whatever.

    I am not saying your strategy is bull, in fact, it is very feasible, but you are neglecting everything the Axis can do aswell.
    With an Axis player just sitting there, doing nothing, it might work, but believe me, the Axis can do enough to hinder your plans.


  • Ow, the bomber can’t SBR fgrom Alaska, unless it lands in Russia.
    Have Japan take two Russian territories, and the US bomber can’t make it.


  • @Woodstock:

    @MasterChief096:

    I have seen Japan roll China quickly and take India… it upped their IPCs enough to have three battleships with various cruisers/destroyers/subs/Aircraft carriers w/ fighters… Very very risky if the United States focuses on putting Pressure on Germany/Italy.  IMO, UK needs to consolidate its African forces to Egypt, blow up the German Fleet, and industrial bomb Italy. Italy doesn’t start with a lot of IPCs, thus making it repair its factory each turn really hurts their effort, and hinders their ability to leave Italy/Balkans.

    That does seem to be the way to go for the Allies, but you are painting a very positive picture.

    United States should fully focus on Japan. If the US is throwing enough Pressure on Japan, Japan worries less about taking China, and more about defending against the US.

    USA going for Japan, wont be making Japan take on China any less. In J1, japan can get enough units positioned to take on China. Without any further investment on this front, Japan should easily make it to Chinghai before being stopped there.
    By then, Japan’s income will have outgrown USA’s, especially if NO’s are in play.
    If USA wants to pose a threat to Japan, they need to invest EVERYTHING. And as others stated, without USA help in Europe, the European theatre will heavily benefit the Axis.

    Russia needs to pump  out infantry each turn, and not worry about anything. Russia needs to bleed German forces and force the Germans to defend with valuable ground units.

    German’s production > Russia’s. The only advantage Russia has, is the sheer amout of attacking units from the start available, and the long way from Berlin to Moscow.
    Only INF’s for Russia, will be their death. Over time, you will lose your attacking units, as Germany is constantly pumping out tanks and fighters.

    My point being, if you hinder Japans ability to gain a lot of IPCs,

    How?

    and you trap Italy in Italy…

    UK focusing on Italy, and no USA help? Germany will have a field day, and even possibily set up an effective Operation Sealion.

    you beat the Axis. If you put a bomber in Alaska (I’m not sure yet) I think you can industrial bomb the hell out of Japan.

    2 transport’s shucking from Japan to Alaska = a dead bomber.

    Which should let you have an edge over them with IPCs,

    Not an edge. Maybe get on par at best.

    allowing your fleet to become more and more larger than Japan’s Each turn. China STARTS WITH ONE FIGHTER,

    which is dead at J1

    this is immensely import to keep alive. It makes taking China a bit harder.

    Eventually the UK and secure Africa, invade Italy, get reinforced by Russian Infantry, and bomb Germany. This in turn lets the Soviets advance into Poland. You have basically thrown Germany into France, Northwestern Europe, and Germany…. (assuming you sent some Russians to get Norway/Finland. Bam, you beat the Germans. Russians attack the Japs from China, UK starts invading the Asian islands, United States sends its fleet to the sea Zone Japan is in, hindering Japans ability to actually defend its islands from the UK. Russia garrisons the borders of China… and I guess you can get crazy and start building a fleet at this point but whatever.

    I am not saying your strategy is bull, in fact, it is very feasible, but you are neglecting everything the Axis can do aswell.
    With an Axis player just sitting there, doing nothing, it might work, but believe me, the Axis can do enough to hinder your plans.

    1. Meh, forgive me for not knowing out to break up quotes……

    2. Its just what happened in my game as allies… I was trying to beat 3 Jap battleships, 2 carriers, like 8 subs, 4 destroyers, and 3 cruisers I mean seriously I was like, “WTH?” Japanese turn comes first… and they are set up so perfectly for some early victories. They can take a couple Chinese provinces right off the bat, hit the UK fleet in India, hit the crappy small US fleet near Hawaii and ignore the one off hte coast of California.

    3. If you get a couple tanks to garrison the Chinese frontlines along with that single chinese fighter they start with, Japan must devote a lot more to taking China, which is further made harder if the US is invading Islands.

    4. Germany’s production is 1 greater than Russia, and the benefit Russia has is that it places its infantry all over the place. If you don’t get shoved back to Moscow I’m pretty sure you can afford 8-10 infantry per turn… you can place 4 in Caucasus just in case Italy gets ambitious, 2 in Karelia, and the 4 in Moscow. The key is to keep your starting units alive, the tanks you start with and the little tiny Russian air force (fighter/bomber) are good to attack with, as they will allow you to easily dispatch some Germans in an area you attack. Russia was who I was doing best with because the German player failed to kill my airforce and tanks that I started with, and my mass infantry hordes just took hits as my tanks/airforce dealt out the damage. I pushed German back to Poland WITHOUT the help of UK/US. UK’s fleet got blown up so it couldn’t do anything lol… so it went and bombed Italy a lot.

    5. By garrisoning China with a couple tanks or getting more US fighter support there. I got long range aircraft my first turn as US so I was able to get like three fighters to China before htey took those Russian territories. The UK can usually easily invade Burma with its 3 infantry/fighter against hte Japs 1 infantry and then gain a bonus as well.

    6. You said yourself Germany has to throw ground units towards Russia… A lot of htem too if they are attacking, because while infantry hit on 1s they defend on twos, lots of german casualties in the east… not to mention if you SBR Germany as UK you are screwing his economy up (I also got rockets as UK… and I managed to get an AA gun to Norway…, I was making him Dish 15-20 IPCs each turn to repair his factory… I was slowly but surely winning.) If the UK sends an invasion fleet into Italy, It would take German infantry two turns to move there to react unless they have mechanized infantry, and if they diverted troops from the Eastern front to go liberate Italy and/or Balkans, it just gives the Russians more breathing space.

    7. I usually have a couple infantry, a tank, and a fighter in Alaska, so those two transports wouldn’t equal a dead bomber :D… Don’t leave it undefended of course!!! 🙂

    8. Depending on how the UK is doing in the Pacific theatre, an edge should be more than likely. I can’t remember the exact value of Borneo or the East Indies… but I know they are worth decent amounts to the Japs… and are relatively undefended but by a couple infantry. Really easy to cut off Japanese income if you know what you are doing.

    9. How does the fighter die right away? I have never seen this happen… It doesn’t start on the front lines (it starts in Yunnan), and there is an infantry with it. The most the japs should be able to throw at it is an infantry and maybe a fighter, which both odds are more in your favor… unless rolling really goes bad.

    10. Yes yes of course the Axis player can hinder my plans, but the game would be amazingly boring if they couldn’t right? I mean… well… you get the picture… lol. I actually like when my plans are hindered and I have to re-think everything or die… hehehehe.


  • The Chinese fighter starts in Yunnan which borders French Indochina. Japan has 2 infantry and 3 fighters that can strike Yunnan round 1. There is no reason for Japan to let this fighter live and every reason for them to kill it round 1.


  • @a44bigdog:

    The Chinese fighter starts in Yunnan which borders French Indochina. Japan has 2 infantry and 3 fighters that can strike Yunnan round 1. There is no reason for Japan to let this fighter live and every reason for them to kill it round 1.

    They CAN, but there are other things they also may want to attack instead of a chinamen and a fighter…… such as both the American and UK fleet in the pacific/indian sea theaters.


  • I haven’t had any trouble accomplishing those objectives with Japan. If you kill the Chinese fighter round 1, China is limited to infantry which attack rather poorly. If you leave the Chinese fighter it takes several rounds to clean up China.


  • Masterchief, after posting something in Jen’s Allied posibility to win in 42 topic, this might be a bit cotradictive.

    But no matter what the Axis do, I just noticed what it is tat struck me in your inital post with which I couldn’t agree. It’s this:

    Eventually the UK and secure Africa, invade Italy, get reinforced by Russian Infantry, and bomb Germany. This in turn lets the Soviets advance into Poland. You have basically thrown Germany into France, Northwestern Europe, and Germany…. (assuming you sent some Russians to get Norway/Finland. Bam, you beat the Germans. Russians attack the Japs from China, UK starts invading the Asian islands, United States sends its fleet to the sea Zone Japan is in, hindering Japans ability to actually defend its islands from the UK. Russia garrisons the borders of China… and I guess you can get crazy and start building a fleet at this point but whatever.

    I mean, I do agree, the Allied are pretty much assured of victory, but not by going that way ^.
    If the Axis indeed go for Africa, and you start following them as UK, what do you have in the long run? Something that cost you a lot, and units scattered all over Africa.

    Inavde Italy. Yes. Indeed, that’s what you should do by round 4. But how can you do that with your units scattered in Africa?

    Russians attack the Japs from China? With which units? And why would you? It takes Japan 4 turns before they can be of any effect from there.

    And where was the USA in your story? Sorry, I forgot.
    But what I am saying, yes, the Allies win, but just plummeth everything in Morocco, and let everything invade Europe.


  • i have just completed a game of KJF in '41
    it must of been the shortest game ever
    but made crucial mistake with russians, i’m not that good in AAA
    japan can be stopped, it really can
    but problem is: europe
    i tried to put some pressure with brits on germany at the north, and with an IC in India(wich i held pretty firm) i was fighting japan
    US was liberating big IPC islands
    problem is: in 41 you need to be quick in KJF, russia holds i think 5 rounds at max
    you need you need to have achieved something by then
    '42 is of course easier against japan, but isn’t germany even stronger?
    i attack belo and eastern ukr with russia and build pure inf trying to hold the archangel-caucasus line

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