Playtest report and conclusions

Yes, we are using the map version of Bluestroke. Not the R12 version, but the R9, but since the changes are merely cosmetic that is not really an issue.

So it seems like we are still missing a few pieces? Can we conclude then that the setup of Bluestroke is right, but just need additions? Or are there units that need to be removed completely or moved to a different zone?

Since we all have to wait 4 weeks more on the game maybe as a compensation we can get a little bit more info on the setup.  :-D

@Perry:

Hah, sorry JB! It was Cousin_joe that talked about countering UKR  :-)

So, Cousin_joe , what do you have to say for yourself  :-)

4INF Cau, 1INF Euk, 1ARM Mos (as per BGG setup - which we now know is wrong, so actually may be even more) *** modified  8-)***

If you don’t hit back in Ukr, you expose Caucasus to being attacked by whatever’s left in Ukr + potentially 7ARM (Blitzing through a German owned Ukr) + potentially 4FTR + 1BMBR + whatever can be brought in by sea (1INF + 1ARM)

For me, that’s a must

@cousin_joe:

@Perry:

Hah, sorry JB! It was Cousin_joe that talked about countering UKR  :-)

So, Cousin_joe , what do you have to say for yourself  :-)

4INF Ukr, 1INF Euk, 1ARM Mos (as per BGG setup - which we now know is wrong, so actually may be even more)

If you don’t hit back in Ukr, you expose Caucasus to being attacked by whatever’s left in Ukr + potentially 7ARM (Blitzing through a German owned Ukr) + potentially 4FTR + 1BMBR + whatever can be brought in by sea (1INF + 1ARM)

For me, that’s a must

I am sure you mean 4 inf from Caucasus.  :wink:

However, the blitz to Caucasus is always present, because Italy can take Ukraine as well by sea allowing German armor to blitz through.

Another point, what if Germany attacked Ukraine on G1 with 3 inf, 3 arm? You will have a hard time taking it back with 5 inf, 1 arm……

@Craig:

A few points up front about the playtesting:

Most of the time we spent playtesting was done under constantly changing maps and rules.  As such, we actually only did a small portion of our work with the final map (which then changed a bit after that), the NOs were a bit different from what they are now, some of the rules changed slightly, and the tech was not like this at all.

What I would say is this- If you are trying to figure out what is and isn’t balanced, DO NOT PLAY WITH THE TECHS!

As Cousin Joe has proper pointed out, since tech is random, you can’t depend on what you will get and that means you can’t plan appropriately.

The techs are too uncertain a factor to try to figure into the equation when trying to find the balance in a scenario.

I’m glad to hear that the Tech situation was thrown in there last minute as I can’t possibly see how any playtesters would think that random tech is a good thing.  I’m sure it’s in there just for the kiddies to get those miraculous victories with HB when they’re clearly beat or to laugh at their opponents misfortune when they get Super Subs  :-)  It would have been nice though, to get some Tech rules suitable for competitive play right OOTB, especially since I don’t see too many kiddies shelling out $100 for this game, and the fact it was meant to be a deluxe version.

I guess, as always, we will need some sort of tournament rules fix.

I do agree though, if you really want to assess game balance, you should do so without Tech.

No matter what, there is going to have to be a lot more game play before we can make a proper assessment as to what is or isn’t balanced.

Also, I would ask those who are playing the '41 scenario- What set up are you using?  If it is the one from the GCI pic and is on the R12 map of Bluestroke’s, then there are a few things that are wrong.

Now I don’t know if that is on purpose or just a mistake.  Larry may have just been busy and missed a few things when setting it up or he may have left out a few things to actually mess with the picture takers.

I believe that it is the former since it is just a few things missing.  If he were trying to throw people off, then a bunch of things would be out of place and/or missing.

I will try to talk to him to see if I am allowed to clarify the info for you.

Craig

I hope one of those things that are missing is a pre-built UK IC and perhaps a few extra US naval units in the Pacific

From what I’m hearing and seeing, Japan is basically able to explode over the whole map as the Allies are too weak to stop them.  This basically leaves KGF as their only strategic alternative.

I would like to do some playtesting, but I’m waiting until we get word of the official setup.  It would be nice to have it before the release…

If the game truly is balanced, there will be a lot of positive feedback, and thus more support and free advertising for the new game.

If the game is not balanced, at least people will have some house rules or tournament rules available to fix it a lot faster (as playtesting will have been done in advanced).

Both of these would help boost sales.  I really don’t think you’ll lose sales by showing the setup online prior to the release (It will definitely be up after the release  :-)).  Hardcore gamers will buy it regardless (most likely on the release date  :-)).  Non-hardcore gamers will probably wait until after the release date, and by then, they would have seen the true setup anyways.

October 23rd would be a nice date to release the true setup… as that’s when it was supposed to come out originally  :-D

This is the setup I’ve been playing with:

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aa506075dg5.png

Without NOs allies have advantage, so maybe thats why I thought the BGG setup is not correct. As with AAR, 2-3 units can be enough to balance a game, but then again, NOs seems to favor axis….

About the Caucasus situation I think on G2 the best defence is to amass a counter-attack force in Moscow which can retake Caucasus if Germany goes all-in. The Germans actually don’t have that much of a second wave and Italy should hopefully be occupied in Algeria.

This news about the set-up is great, I start a new thread right away and then we’ll maybe get there quicker!

@Lynxes:

All this seriously changes the game in the Allied favour, but play-testing with the GENCON set-up really has shown the Axis to be very much stronger than in all earlier editions of A&A and this is not what was intended I think.

I have only been playtesting without NOs, you and others have been using NOs, and I suspect Axis will be stronger with NOs than allies, compared to not using NOs.

It should not make a biig difference though, as NOs are optional rules, game balance should not be influenced by NOs.

Actually, I was quite happy to read that we’ve been playing the wrong setup!
I had expected to play one new AA game, when AA50 hit the shelves.

Now it will feel like I’ve got to play two new games 
First one game with the wrong setup, then one game with the correct setup :-D

And don’t forget the '42 scenario!

And don’t forget the '42 scenario!

so then what is the set up for it?

how bout a nation at a time?

As I’ve said before, I’m not at liberty to go into detail about setups.

@JohnBarbarossa:

German build 10 infantry.

What is this production for? Hoping o the Endsieg with Volkssturm and stuff like that?

No sub, no Tank, no Tech roll?

A normal experienced allied player will love you for this production.

PS: Generalfeldmarschall Rommel würde sich im Grabe rumdrehen.

Correct me if i’m wrong, but i believe Germany starts the game with 19 inf where some might be needed to defend France from UK and US attacks, while Russia starts with a whopping 39. While Ger has got enough punch units, it does not have the quantities it needs, therefore a boost to the infantry stack seems like the best thing to do for Germany in the early game. Perhaps they should even have built more, but unfortunately 10 is their production limit.

First you go for the english fleet in northern atlantic, especially their transports to avoid bigger amphibious landings in turn 1 and 2. This will give you space for building offensive units.

You need a base production of 3 - 4 german infantry per turn. But not to establish fortress europe. The german infantry is cannonfodder for the Ostfront.

As the UK player im afraid of german combined figther-, bomber- and sub-attacks vs. my homefleet ant the transports, not a bunch of sauerkraut eating infantry in france and north-west europe.

My dear Marechallens, do you have any idea how much IPC UK has on the first turn?

A whopping 43! Add to that that 1 DD, and 1 CA will always survive G1 and you have your fleet build (even in SZ2 if needed) on UK1.

Germany needs the infantry bad, really really bad like silent observer described or the Soviets will be knocking on your doorstep on R3/R4.

lets also be a bit more cordial to our posters. Lets them build 30 infantry a turn if they like. If its not correct you can prove it in the game forums.

@Craig:

Most of the time we spent playtesting was done under constantly changing maps and rules.  As such, we actually only did a small portion of our work with the final map (which then changed a bit after that), the NOs were a bit different from what they are now, some of the rules changed slightly, and the tech was not like this at all.
Craig

Hey Craig,

Just out of curiosity… are you able to say what the tech was like when you were playtesting?

Also, were there ever any convoy raiding type of rules/NOs, and were the ICs ever tried at a lower price than 15IPCs?

Thanks.

@JohnBarbarossa:

@marechallannes:

PS: Generalfeldmarschall Rommel würde sich im Grabe rumdrehen.

Rommel would certainly not turn around inside his grave for such a purchase, since Rommel was a great strategist.
Armour, planes and ships don’t conquer and occupy territories. Infantry does, and in large quantities.
You surely don’t know what you are talking about. Bring on that allied play of yours.

That is a typical russian tactic.

Rommel won his battels with fast tanks and mechanized infantry.

My tip:
Janusz Piekalkiewicz (from Poland) “Der Wüstenkrieg in Afrika”
or
Paul Carell (from Germany) “Die Wüstenfüchse”

…and in AA50 you can conquer and occupy territories with a single infantry. LOL

@Driel310:

My dear Marechallens, do you have any idea how much IPC UK has on the first turn?

A whopping 43! Add to that that 1 DD, and 1 CA will always survive G1 and you have your fleet build (even in SZ2 if needed) on UK1.

Germany needs the infantry bad, really really bad like silent observer described or the Soviets will be knocking on your doorstep on R3/R4.

I know the UK IPC starting income very well. But as the british player you have to care about africa, india and australia too.

What is your german production an G2? 12 infantry?

The german has to kick the russian fast and that does not work only with infanry.

PS: Hey, I dont want to say you are noobs or something like that. But 10 inf in G1 seems very special.