What if the holocoust never happened



  • @Adlertag:

    @Gewehr:

    As we all know, Hitler ordered in the"final solution" and began to discriminate certain ethnicitys. Millions were killed, I say what if it didn’t happen. What if Hitler had never ordered a “Final Solution” of any kind.

    What you think would’ve happened?

    Hitler killed 6 million jews, but only very few of this was german jews, most of the jews come from eastern Europe, France and Russia. When Hitler come to power in 1933, he stole the money from rich jews like Rotschild, and some say this money was used to build up his military forces. So if Hitler was not purging and looting the german jews, he would not got all this money at this early time, and the war would be delayed some years.
    Lets say 1 million of this jews was german, that would give him 100 000 more soldiers. Not a decesive factor. The rest 5 million jews was foreigners, and would not contribute to the german war effort what so ever.

    Hitlers war goal was Lebensraum. He wanted to kill all the slaves in eastern Europe, and make a Reich from France to Ural Mountains. If he did not discriminate other ethnic people, this war would never happen. Why would he attack Russia ? Would the common German soldier volunteer to die just to free the russians from Stalin ?

    Because of the Versailles Treaty that left 20 % of the german population under foreign rule, and the financial depression with hyper-inflation and large scale un-employment and starvation, some kind of war was expected. Even the Weimar Republic prepared for a war. But without the ethnic factor, the war would likely be limited to just conquer the territories that was lost because of the Versailles Treaty. The Germans, with a soft Hitler or without Hitler, would just conquer Sudetenland and Schlesien, and then want peace. And since this would happen before Churchill come to power, the war would likely stop there.

    I agree with some points here. Hitlers wants were far beyond German means under his time frame. Even if the Jews, Slavs, or other “undesirables” were simply deported or used in combat, this would have NO real effect on the war. Germanys failure to take on the long range bomber program of Walter Weaver before his untimely death and Goerrings demmand for MORE aircraft instead of BETTER aircraft left the Allies with air superiority.

    In my personal opinion,
    1. NO. The Brits would NEVER have surrendered and fought building to building just as the Nazis did.
    2. If peace was negotiated with England after territories were taken to satisfy Germany, this would have closed down the wester front. I believe England would have negotiated peace. This would have still led to the war with Russia which had been brewing since the Spanish Civil War. Germany may have had an excellent chance to take Russia if you take all those resources from the western front and put them against the communists.



  • War with the Soviets equaled war with England and France. In order to have avenues for blitzkrieg’s high speed advances I don’t see how Poland could be left alone. There never was the option for Hitler to just focus on the USSR.


  • Customizer

    Aldertag is correct in that the vast majority of Holocaust victims were not from Germany.  It’s also worth mentioning that the majority of camp guards were not elite SS soldiers but psychopaths recruited mainly in the occupied countries.  But while the divertion of manpower didn’t hugely effect the war effort, the program did adversely effect the Axis army in two ways.
    Firstly the number of transport vehicles, principally rail stock, needed was a big drain on supply services to the front, as well as bottling up some routes altogether.
    Secondly Hitler’s order for the plan dates to the winter of 1941/2, at just the time the war started going badly. From one perspective the entire German war effort from here on was fought as a giant holding operation while the business of the murders was put into effect.  Hitler already realised that he could not win in the long term, hence his seemingly wreckless declaration of war againt America.  So he was getting in a “victory” while he could before the inevitable military defeat.  By this time he did not consider any proposal for a ceasefire, as the cost and outcome of the war was already subordinated to the Holocaust order.
    Another point to consider is that when the Soviets “liberated” the camps they kept them going to murder their own long list of “enemies”, and may have murdered twice as many people in the camps after the war as the Nazis killed during it.



  • Thank you Flanshman. FINALLY, someone who speaks out against the Soviets atrocities. 21 million murdered in Russia alone. Their “labor camps” people rarely returned from. When The Soviets began raping and murdering axis refugees after the war, American soldiers happened to be present. At first, when out soldiers tried to stop it, the Russians turned their weapons on us. Finally, the soldiers began opening fire into the air and a Soviet commander had it stopped.

    To save face in front of us, that commander had a number of his men hung on the spot.

    I do however disagree that the holocaust interfered with the war effort on a significant. My backbone to this opinion being that many camps were bieng used as slave labor for profiteers. Inmates were helping not only the manufacturing of war goods such as clothing, shells and aircraft, they were also used in other companies such as Germanys main porcelain concern.

    Suprisingly, Himmler actually suggested that skilled workers be fed and housed better but this was not really followed.


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