• '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    The worst was countrywide. no question. Crook company. They had no shame and no problem with throwing out old ladies who were a day late or an hour late paying what could have saved their homes. And that company was run like a Jim Jones Cool-Ade stand. Thank god it went under and got its just reward.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Yea, I really dodged a bullet when I used the Soldier’s and Sailor’s Relief Act to force Countrywide to let me refinance early with Harris Bank.  (All you have to do as an enlisted soldier is prove that you could save as little as a penny or more in the deal and they are obligated to let you move!)

    I don’t know.  I’m sure there are some on the boards who will hate me for this statement, but I just don’t care.  If you run a company and you make poor decisions and people chose to invest in your company anyway, then - assuming you did not LIE to them, which is a criminal offense - then perhaps when the company goes under it is justice?

    Is it not the tenement of capitalism that when one company goes bankrupt, there are five companies in the wings ready to gobble up the market share no longer being serviced by that company?

    For instance, let us pretend that United Airlines declared bankruptcy and was forced to liquidate their assets.  Now, this would be horrible for stock holders, but then United Airlines has been flirting with outright liquidation for decades so it is no secret it could happen at a moment’s notice.

    Now, do you think all those customers would no longer be serviced?  Of course not!  Southwest Airlines, American Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa, etc will pick up the slack, and with the increased customer base, they would probably purchase many of the planes at used prices meaning the debt owed by United to Boeing for the planes they are leasing would also be repaid.

    Why cannot we use the same feature for the mortgage industry?  I would, of course, agree that families living in homes be given the option to lock in their interest rate where it is now (and the banks would agree, because 5% is still higher than foreclosing and selling the home at a 40% loss).


    BTW, as for Countrywide, I picked up some of it’s stock cheap and took a bath when it converted to Bank of America.  So I’m not infallible in my picks.  I will mention, however, that so far I’ve profited every quarter (my gains > my losses) except when it came to that stock.


  • @Imperious:

    The worst was countrywide. no question. Crook company. They had no shame and no problem with throwing out old ladies who were a day late or an hour late paying what could have saved their homes. And that company was run like a Jim Jones Cool-Ade stand. Thank god it went under and got its just reward.

    Countrywide is the EXACT company I battled for 2 years doing loans and trying to help old and middle age people save their homes from foreclosure and get them out of debt. The 30/60/90 day late hits on their credit report Countrywide would do for being even a day late. They did that so they could pin them up against a wall by harming their credit. Countrywide would stall on giving us paper work they were required to provide by law, then call my clients up and use scare tactics to try and keep them in their awful situation. I literally was at war with those people for 2 years. I’m so glad I don’t do that anymore. (I’m broke) but who cares. I don’t have an ulsur. Peace of mind was something all the money I was making never gave me. People were so screwed over by that company, they’d call me at every hour on my cell, even during Christmas to see how their refinance was going. I felt so strongly for them I never took a day off from work really. I’d go to their houses at any hour with coffee to talk to them about a plan to help save their homes. It was SO stressful.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes of course that’s because Countrywide is the Anti-Christ… a modern day Bank of America robbing from the poor to steal money for its plutocratic clique interests.

    AS they say in used cars: the movie… “you gotta nickle and dime them”.

    One of my friends was telling me they forces the employees to maintain Pom Poms at their desk, so they can do what they call Raw Raw events, like that Hideki Tojo inspired raise your hands after they announce some drummed up propaganda about passing # 5 or whatever in the mortgage business, when the reality is they just gave crazy loans to people who cant even buy a banana, knowing it would default… they didn’t even need a social security card to buy a house. They sent people to canvass uber poor neighborhoods to find people willing to borrow money.

    They used to have this company that’s is an outright fraud called Prime America It was staffed by the biggest losers imaginable and the company basically took in people as insurance salesman as long as they had two legs. I remember taking the series 6 and the room had only like 2 people each from Prudential and Metlife, and like the other 96 people were Primeamerica rejects. I eventually worked for Metlife when i was real young and it just seems they ( Prime America ) just took anybody to work for them because the flood of people leaving was greater than flowing in. Its the same thing in Countrywide. People are basically holding that job while the entire time they are looking for a real job somewhere else.


  • Oh god imperious, those company names you mentioned make me shudder. BAD memories of fighting those devils off the poor.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Is that not kind of the reason we need government oversight on private companies?  That way the same people policing the organization do not also own, run and manage the organization?

    That’s what really scares me about the buyout of the semi-federally run Freddie and Fannie.  It just seems wrong on so many levels to have the police and the criminals be in the same family, you know?  How many times has someone let a detective who is the brother of the accused murderer be the lead investigator?

    As for “Bank of America” I have a few issues with them as well.  They don’t require proof of citizenship or residency before opening credit cards for members.  I don’t mind them opening savings and checking accounts, but credit cards are valid forms of ID for US Government business. (it is a second ID, but it is still a valid form of ID!)

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    They don’t care as long as they get the account, national security and whether the citizen is American or not be dammed.

    B of A should be called “Bank of foreigners who just showed up unexpectedly”

    They are always the first to invent a new fee, first to charge more for the same service, first to raise loan rates, first to lower yield rates, first to change the rules midstream, first to make banking as less personal and automated, first to impose all sorts of “were holding your check for X days”, first to basically deny anybody who has a check from another party made out to the branch your cashing the check, but deny you access to funds because you don’t have an account with B of A, then actually have the trepidation to ask you to open an account so you can access the funds. Anything possible to shaft anybody.


  • This is a good little support group. ::Raising hand:: I …um. HATE …Wells Fargo. There I said it. I hate them.  🙂

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    What did they do?  examples…

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    So just curious, but WorldCom resulted in Perp Walks, Enron resulted in Perp Walks, Martha Stewart Gate resulted in perp walks.  Where are the perp walks for fannie mae and freddie mac now that they’ve bilked the American people out of 700 billion dollars and collecting 100 million in personal income while cooking the books???


  • im not american but how good is your health care o offense is it cheaper sicne you dotn pay with taxes?
    id liek to know this from an american view because me and many fellow canadians think you gus pay $50 000 on a broken leg $500 on a box of pills
    so please set this straight for me

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.  It covers everything.  100% generic prescriptions, 1 visit a year for vision check up, 100% dental (includes all crowns, bridges, orthodontics, cleanings etc) and it covers all but $5/copay on name brand prescriptions.

    Honestly, any program offered is worse than the one I have currently.  There’s no way any government could do better, IMHO.  Especially since my $4,320 a year is tax deductible (meaning my taxes are lower and my EITC - earned income tax credit - usually offsets this amount by a lot, especially when my mortgage shield is in place.)

    BTW, that plan is Blue Cross/Blue Shield (huge name brand, recognized in every state of the union at least, I think internationally too) and is NOT EMPLOYER PROVIDED!  This is just a private citizen calling the insurance companies and working out a deal all by herself, just like any schmuck could do.


  • OH! I still like are way better sorry :-o.
    i think that if you are american thats good but if your canadian we would say it sucks so im gonna say ntohing no comment


  • @Cmdr:

    I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.  It covers everything.  100% generic prescriptions, 1 visit a year for vision check up, 100% dental (includes all crowns, bridges, orthodontics, cleanings etc) and it covers all but $5/copay on name brand prescriptions.

    Honestly, any program offered is worse than the one I have currently.  There’s no way any government could do better, IMHO.  Especially since my $4,320 a year is tax deductible (meaning my taxes are lower and my EITC - earned income tax credit - usually offsets this amount by a lot, especially when my mortgage shield is in place.)

    BTW, that plan is Blue Cross/Blue Shield (huge name brand, recognized in every state of the union at least, I think internationally too) and is NOT EMPLOYER PROVIDED!  This is just a private citizen calling the insurance companies and working out a deal all by herself, just like any schmuck could do.

    You’re gettin ripped off. My coverage is better and cheaper. Tough luck.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Are you sure it’s better and cheaper?

    That’s the major problem.  With a universal coverage plan everyone’s policies seem better and cheaper on paper, but then why would large numbers of people from universal coverage plans come to nations without them to get medical treatment?  Perhaps it is better and cheaper to keep what we have?

    As my doctor says when you complain about being ill, if it is not broken, then don’t fix it.  The system is currently not broken.  And if it is broken, it’s because many people think they need a plan from a government or corporation.  Since all health care is already tax deductible, why not just make it tax deductible with a $3,000 individual/$5,000 family stipend instead?  Then if you don’t want healthcare, you get extra cash, if you do want it, you can go buy it from another state or agency instead of being locked into what is offered locally.

    For criminy, I live in the most heavily taxed area of the country, if I can afford health care for an entire family for less than $5k a year, and we have really awesome coverage since EVERYTHING IS COVERED, yes, if you get a bloody nose, and go see an ear nose and throat specialist, it is covered!, then everyone can.


  • Um… dude are taxes might be high but not every american can pay for ur 5k a year and what about schools are taxes go for schools and health care with are high taxes barely anyone goes broke.
    Health care in canada is not the best actually germany has the best  health care then great britian then france then canada. I actually saw a movie about health in the usa and the guy who did it explained how when he broke his arm he would have been broke 13 000$! usa is getting better though.  Also you know that bad fire that happened i forge the name in usa and it was huge well many fire fighters and volunteers did not get the health care while the volunteers did not get coverage the fire fighters did not and they are FIRE FIGHTERS! THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE COVERED AND ONLY IF CORRECTLY 2% OF THE HELPERS GOT THE TREATMENT. i just asked to see the difference and know how i see the difference i like canada better in health and schooling

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Most of America already pays for $5k or more for corporate provided healthcare.  The difference is that giving everyone a pre-bate check for $5k could result in many Americans continuing to CHOSE not to have health care insurance instead investing that money into emergency medical bonds (an option currently available, you just put the money into a bond at your local bank, it pays 5.25% +/- depending on what CD Rates are for 5 year term CDs and if you have a medical emergency, you can draw off it without penalty.)  Others can CHOOSE to get coverage like mine from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which covers 100% of medical, dental and optical with a very small copay on NAME BRAND drugs (generics are free.  Basically, this is Germany’s plan, but instead of the government taxing us for it, I bought it from a private company and can leave when I want and go to a competitor.)

    Also, schools are funded through property taxes, not income taxes, so diverting the funds for health care from your paycheck just like they are deducted now will have zero impact on school funding.

    Also, I would like to state that Michael Moore movies are fictional pieces.  Sicko is not an accurate depiction of healthcare in America where you can get the flu, go to the emergency room, and be seen by a physician for free at any hospital in the nation, with or without health care.


  • @Cmdr:

    Most of America already pays for $5k or more for corporate provided healthcare.  The difference is that giving everyone a pre-bate check for $5k could result in many Americans continuing to CHOSE not to have health care insurance instead investing that money into emergency medical bonds (an option currently available, you just put the money into a bond at your local bank, it pays 5.25% +/- depending on what CD Rates are for 5 year term CDs and if you have a medical emergency, you can draw off it without penalty.)  Others can CHOOSE to get coverage like mine from Blue Cross/Blue Shield which covers 100% of medical, dental and optical with a very small copay on NAME BRAND drugs (generics are free.  Basically, this is Germany’s plan, but instead of the government taxing us for it, I bought it from a private company and can leave when I want and go to a competitor.)

    Also, schools are funded through property taxes, not income taxes, so diverting the funds for health care from your paycheck just like they are deducted now will have zero impact on school funding.

    Also, I would like to state that Michael Moore movies are fictional pieces.  Sicko is not an accurate depiction of healthcare in America where you can get the flu, go to the emergency room, and be seen by a physician for free at any hospital in the nation, with or without health care.

    Where are you getting your Blue Cross coverage? I have Blue Cross, and my generics are $8 each.

    This seems to hard to believe:

    I pay $4,320 a year for full health, dental and vision coverage for my two children, husband and myself.

    Full coverage for a generic family of four (Male, female, aged 30, no preexisting conditions; 2 kids, age 10, no preexisting conditions) is $758 a month. https://services.hscil.com/il/eapp/wxpm1653.pl?source=WEBIL00100

    Edit: You’ll have to generate your own family for the link to give you a quote.

    That plan also has an $1100 individual deductible ($2200 family).

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois.

    $90.00 Per Week Maximum 4 Weeks per month (so really 48 weeks = $4,320)

    100% Dental Covered
    100% Vision Covered
    100% Generic Prescriptions Covered
    $5/CoPay Name Brand Prescriptions Covered.

    This is NOT company sponsored, it is DIRECT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY.  You will, of course, have to use a quoting service.  Of course, to make his point, Smacktard specifically did NOT use services such as ican.com and the literally hundreds of other quoting services out there.

    What happens is the quoting service groups you with others like you and then goes to the insurance company and negotiates a rate based on your demographics.  So my $90/week for 48 weeks a year was probably offered to a million other people just like me.

    BTW, there are no deductibles to deal with.  You can ask for plans with them, but I chose not to get them and to pay the like three dollars a week difference.

    I know Blue Cross does this, Metlife does it and so does United Health Care (UHC).  I’m sure there are others, and they may even be cheaper.

    The point is, we do not need to “fix” health care insurance in this country.  We already have the best possible health care insurance in the world.  What we need to do is fix the tax situation on health care insurance.  I have to pay taxes on the money I earn that pays for health care because it is not company provided.  Others who use company provided insurance get to pay for their insurance out of their net and pay taxes on what is left after paying for it.  If we just allowed all health insurance payments to be tax exempt, no one would need company provided health care insurance which would make it easier to transition from one employer to another. (Since you won’t have to wait the pre-requisite 9 months or whatever it is to get your preexisting conditions covered.  Since you won’t change providers or policies, then there would be no waiting period!)

    Now, add to that the FACT you can go to the emergency room FOR FREE for any injury or illness, without regard to your citizenship status for FREE medical treatment and you have to wonder - where’s the crisis???


    Now, back on topic, when will the government learn they have to SHUT UP.  Everytime they open their mouths the DOW drops 200 points.  Everytime they pass a law the DOW drops 600 points!  This is the worst legislative administration in American history and it is destroying the international economy!

    We need to get Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, anyone even remotely related to A.C.O.R.N. and all the other crooks that stopped the reform of the housing industry in 2003 and put them in jail!

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    less political please….this thread is marginally treading into political issues.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Well, I’m trying to get at law enforcement, not political agendas.  A thief is a thief regardless of the color of his or her tie, IMHO.


  • @Cmdr:

    Blue Cross Blue Shield of Illinois.

    $90.00 Per Week Maximum 4 Weeks per month (so really 48 weeks = $4,320)

    100% Dental Covered
    100% Vision Covered
    100% Generic Prescriptions Covered
    $5/CoPay Name Brand Prescriptions Covered.

    This is NOT company sponsored, it is DIRECT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY.  You will, of course, have to use a quoting service.  Of course, to make his point, Smacktard specifically did NOT use services such as ican.com and the literally hundreds of other quoting services out there.

    What happens is the quoting service groups you with others like you and then goes to the insurance company and negotiates a rate based on your demographics.  So my $90/week for 48 weeks a year was probably offered to a million other people just like me.

    BTW, there are no deductibles to deal with.  You can ask for plans with them, but I chose not to get them and to pay the like three dollars a week difference.

    I know Blue Cross does this, Metlife does it and so does United Health Care (UHC).  I’m sure there are others, and they may even be cheaper.

    The point is, we do not need to “fix” health care insurance in this country.  We already have the best possible health care insurance in the world.  What we need to do is fix the tax situation on health care insurance.  I have to pay taxes on the money I earn that pays for health care because it is not company provided.  Others who use company provided insurance get to pay for their insurance out of their net and pay taxes on what is left after paying for it.  If we just allowed all health insurance payments to be tax exempt, no one would need company provided health care insurance which would make it easier to transition from one employer to another. (Since you won’t have to wait the pre-requisite 9 months or whatever it is to get your preexisting conditions covered.  Since you won’t change providers or policies, then there would be no waiting period!)

    Now, add to that the FACT you can go to the emergency room FOR FREE for any injury or illness, without regard to your citizenship status for FREE medical treatment and you have to wonder - where’s the crisis???


    Now, back on topic, when will the government learn they have to SHUT UP.  Everytime they open their mouths the DOW drops 200 points.  Everytime they pass a law the DOW drops 600 points!  This is the worst legislative administration in American history and it is destroying the international economy!

    We need to get Chris Dodd, Barney Franks, anyone even remotely related to A.C.O.R.N. and all the other crooks that stopped the reform of the housing industry in 2003 and put them in jail!

    Aren’t you a teacher? I’ve never heard of a public school teacher having to shop around for health insurance. Are you telling us you weren’t automatically enrolled in a group plan when you were hired? I know Chicago teachers have a choice of PPO or HMO coverage: http://www.cps-humanresources.org/Careers/benefits.htm

    So what is this bass-ackwards district you work at that doesn’t provide health care to its members?

    Oh, and emergency room care isn’t free. You WILL get a bill from the hospital. Whether you can pay it or not is an entirely different thing. Maybe you’re confusing “will not turn away due to lack of money” with “free”.

  • '18 '17 '16 '11 Moderator

    Chicago Public Schools have a different teacher union than charter schools in Streamwood, Smack.  I know that’s not common knowledge so you were probably unaware of that.

    Our union negotiated a credit from the schools in our district that we could apply to our own health insurance plans that we bought from a second party.  Primarily the cause was a change in policy of United Health Care which applied the copay to each line item in a bill (which for a child birth has A LOT OF LINE ITEMS!  You have anesthesia, you have room charges, food charges, medicine charges, specialist charges, nursery charges, etc…it adds up fast!)  Instead of dropping UHC altogether, we negotiated with the school for a clause that allowed us to find a different policy somewhere else and have that amount auto-debited from our paychecks (kinda like what happens for your payroll taxes and if the courts garnish your wages, etc) and applied to our insurance bills.  The only problem with this plan is that if we don’t go with the UHC plan we have to pay taxes on the wages earned that are spent on health insurance.

    Thing is, however, UHC was charging us a lot more than BCBS is charging me and providing worse coverage.  I, personally, think the reason for that was because we were a captive set of customers.  We had to use UHC so they could screw us.  Now we can shop around and with the market the way it is, other providers are dying to get us onto their books and so gave us a relatively great deal. (Relative to UHC.)


    And I am not confusing will not turn away with free.  They will not turn you away, even if you have never paid an emergency room bill.  Therefore, since you don’t have to pay for services rendered, by definition, it is free.

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