FINALLY! the new revised cards are available!!


  • they game the smovente enhanced range, whic it really neede to survive.  otherwise it was over-costed


  • its a whole new ball-game now folks…finish your current matches, as the next games will be in the twilight zone!


  • @Motdc:

    its a whole new ball-game now folks…finish your current matches, as the next games will be in the twilight zone!

    Someone needs to get to work and advise what units actually changed.


  • Sounds like you are volunteering…


  • HT and DK, you will be happy to know that units riding on the backs of tanks can now be targeted.

    DK, you’ll be happy to hear my 6 BAR build is now broken.


  • @Motdc:

    HT and DK, you will be happy to know that units riding on the backs of tanks can now be targeted.

    DK, you’ll be happy to hear my 6 BAR build is now broken.

    Target practice


  • Heh, I was on the fence of whether I should be buying any more A&A minis or not. Since it seems unlikely WotC will send me replacement cards for all of my cards that are now obsolete, even though I bought them in the last 6 months, I guess that makes the decision easy.


  • Shemar, I wouldn’t look at things in this way.  The cards you have are playable, the game worked before and it was not broken.

    They came to a cross roads and were faced with a decision.  Do you continue to make new sets playable with the old sets knowing that improvements could be made to the old sets and in doing so you would not incorperate improvements to these new sets?

    What I feel they tried to do is fine tune the game pcs and rules to make more units usable and elimate the far superior units.  Also they attemped to make game play more realistic.

    Again the old cards are still good but the new cards and rules should improve things (I HOPE).  We’ve been through a similar circumstance once before when they resized the units.  I still use my old units, looks stupid but…


  • Well, yes, but they should have done it with the re-launch of the ‘basic’ set (1939-1945). They re-printed the manual, made a new starter set and changed the map size. It was with the assumption that this new starter set and basic set would be the ‘norm’ for the foreseeable future that I invested in this game.

    Beyond that, the completely inadequate official support for this game, the fact that I play mostly online so the actual physical minitures are not being used and some rethinking of my budget priorities already had me re-evaluating A&A Minis as a budgetary concern, so this is just enough to push me in this direction.

    As for the game itself, I have not looked at the individual unit changes, but the change of the stacking limits makes this ‘new’ edition significantly different from the previous one.


  • @Shemar:

    Well, yes, but they should have done it with the re-launch of the ‘basic’ set (1939-1945). They re-printed the manual, made a new starter set and changed the map size. It was with the assumption that this new starter set and basic set would be the ‘norm’ for the foreseeable future that I invested in this game.

    Amen!


  • So its said, they did a pretty good job on most of the units in the Revised cards.

    The revised rules, as brief as they are, are FUBAR.

    Correction, the stacking resolution rules are FUBAR.

    3 units per hex, OK, no biggie.

    Having to remember the order that you moved your units for the entire phase because you have to correct all overstacks at the end of each phase in reverse order (last in, first out) is un-7ucking-managable.

    I am pissed as all hell  :x


  • @Shemar:

    Beyond that, the completely inadequate official support for this game

    Agreed.  Like I’ve said before, I like the game a lot but it’s been dead since set III


  • Regarding the stacking rules.

    I don’t think it is about remembering the order of the units. Or if it gets to be about that the player is doing something wrong. I think the only essential difference is that now you can temporarily overstack hexes as long as by the end of the turn the stacking limits are obeyed.

    For example imagine two adjacent hexes with 3 infantry (speed 1) units in them. Before it was impossible to ‘exchange’ units between those hexes. Now you can.


  • Well that’s the rub.  “as long as by the end of the turn the stacking limits are obeyed” is not as easy as it seems.  If at the end of the turn a hex IS overstacked, you have got some pretty weird stuff to resolve that.

    Mot


  • Here’s an example I’vedon a dozen times:

    With these new rules, you cannot start the game with your 88 or Bofors loaded on a transport, move to a drop location on turn 1, and dismount it.

    To resolve the vehicle overstack you have to back out the last one in, as per the new rules.  Last one in is the Bofors gun, which then magically teleports back onto the Truck to resolve the overstack.

    How is that not broken!?


  • Well, that depends on how one interprets the rules.

    My call would be that any of the previous ‘if ti breaks the stacking limit’ rules, like dismounting in an adjacent hex, continue to work as before (or at least there is the option to keep them working as before) even if technically now they do not break the stacking limit until the end of the turn.

    I guess the question is: Is loading the 88 on a transport at the start of a scenario a desirable behavior or an exploit?

    I agree though, that these new stacking rules need a whole lot of clarifications to work right. And since I have yet to see any read advantage to my gaming experience when using them, I am inclined to use the old rules for now.


  • Motdc,

    I take exception to the term broken.  Everything in life is in transition including these rules.  Of course it would be great if they were pefectly sorted out when we first bought into the game but we’d still be waiting for the game.

    I’m not privy to WotC politics but I’m sure the game designers are doing their best to keep the game on the rails.  Solutions will be easier to find when the suggestions for change are more positive.

    Audacity


  • I complain here, I posted an excellently positive suggestion over there…no worries :mrgreen:


  • Though I disagree that the the rules were intended to be some type of work-in-progress.  Rules are rules, and I take them very seriously.  They were not posted with a “here’s a proposed idea”…they were posted as “here are the new rules”


  • @Shemar:

    Well, that depends on how one interprets the rules.

    My call would be that any of the previous ‘if ti breaks the stacking limit’ rules, like dismounting in an adjacent hex, continue to work as before (or at least there is the option to keep them working as before) even if technically now they do not break the stacking limit until the end of the turn.

    Ah, but the rules state you can only deploy adjacnet when you would otherwise break the stacking rule.  And since the stacking rule isnt broken until the end of the phase, that criteria is not met.

    I did very simply and plainly ask for a clarification of this one point.  I’ll let you all know when I hear an official answer.


  • Great. All they have to do is rule that for purposes of unloading troops, ‘breaking the stacking limit’ can be checked at the moment of unloading instead of the end of the turn, if the acting player chooses to.

    Although, they may have other intentions, like closing the unloading in an overloaded hex to gain an extra hex worth of movement loophole.


  • Yes you are right, that too was an objective U believe.  But they traded a well known and fairly contained “loop-hole” (which I actually didnt think caused any game imbalance issues or rules contradictions) for a problem of a different color.

    As always, just my 2 cents!
    Mot


  • @Audacity:

    I’m not privy to WotC politics but I’m sure the game designers are doing their best to keep the game on the rails.  Solutions will be easier to find when the suggestions for change are more positive.

    This was my suggestion for fixing the Large Artillery issue instead of changing the stacking resolution rules:

    “Large - This unit may not end its Move or Assualt in a hex with a vehicle unless it has the Transport ability. Vehicles may not end their Move or Assualt in a hex with this unit unless that vehicle has the Transport ability”.

    If they want to allow swappimg units then I suggest they just explicitly allow it:

    “Two adjacents Soldiers that are eligible to Move may effectively swap positions.  This is considered to two simultaneous Moves on the part of the Soldiers, and is subject to Defensive Fire, movement rolls, etc.  If either Soldier is prevented from moving (due to a Defensive Fire disruption for example) then both units are prevented from moving.”

    If they want to prevent the “overstack flick” then they should just disallow it, point blank.  “You may not unload into an overstacked hex.”  And with the new 3-units-per-hex AND my suggestion for Large artillery, you would be far less likely to bump into this limit.

    As always, these are just my opinions!


  • bump for new players


  • I don’t know about all the new rules. There’s something to be said about simplicity. We’ve adapted “overwatch” into our game but we’re still playing with the same rules with a couple minor variations that just speed up the game play and make it more fun.

    BTW –- Since “Overwatch” is a play on defensive fire, this means that a tank on overwatch cannot shoot at soldiers that move into its row right? I figure it’s true since vehicles don’t get defensive fire on soldiers. Just want clarification if you guys don’t mind.

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