• I have heard it said that this version will be diffrent in how Japan and Russia will be able to interact.

    Any thoughts on how that may happen or how they will be able to keep Japan from taking the SFE?

    LT


  • Maybe SZ 60-62 will be cut different, or maybe another SZ will be added; maybe Mongolia or another neutral territory will prevent an immediate attack; maybe Eastern Russia (Yakut, SFE, Bury) will start with more defense.  Just some thoughts…
    Thanks.


  • On the A&AP map it shows just a smidgen of Russia as the A&A universal color for nuteral territory.

    LT


  • @captainjack:

    Maybe SZ 60-62 will be cut different, or maybe another SZ will be added; maybe Mongolia or another neutral territory will prevent an immediate attack; maybe Eastern Russia (Yakut, SFE, Bury) will start with more defense.  Just some thoughts…
    Thanks.

    Sounds true as far as i can tell

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    It was just announced that each nation has specific territories that it receives a bonus for occupation. I am getting this list and it does not include Soviet territories, so its not really a benefit for Japan to send its forces to try to take all these zero and one IPC territories in Russia.

    IN Italy’s case they get a 10 IPC bonus for holding a few territories ( doubles her income)

  • 2007 AAR League

    There are zero ipc territories in Russia? cool…

    I think a major reason that Japan will be unable to go for Russia, is the simple fact that China will be too strong, if left unattended!

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    When I asked Larry he said that all the rules pertaining to neutral territories and impassable areas on the map stayed the same as the last edition. No fly overs or buying into them.

    from a guy at gen con….neutrals will be house rules!


  • @Perry:

    There are zero ipc territories in Russia? cool…

    I think a major reason that Japan will be unable to go for Russia, is the simple fact that China will be too strong, if left unattended!

    Quite correct.

    If you go full bore into China, the USA will sneak up behind you. China is going to be a pain for Japan in this game. I told Larry this at GCI. He seemed a bit surprised, but I can already see some vicious things the Allies can do to slow Japan down, enough for USA to swoop in.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Japan has some IPC bonus if it controls specific territories. Can you recall what these were squirecam?


  • @Imperious:

    Japan has some IPC bonus if it controls specific territories. Can you recall what these were squirecam?

    IIRC, pretty much what you would expect. Borneo, DEI, Shanghai, etc. But throw in Hawaii and you get more IPC. Basically, try to get Japan what she gets in Revised…


  • Is there anyother incentive for Japan not to attack Russia to make it historical? I would still think some pressure on Russia from Japan is best for Axis.


  • @Flying:

    Is there anyother incentive for Japan not to attack Russia to make it historical? I would still think some pressure on Russia from Japan is best for Axis.

    Given how badly the Russians under Zhukov mangled the Japanese 23rd Infantry Division at Nomanhan in August and September of 1939, the Japanese Army really, really, really did not want to tackle the Russians in any way, shape, or form.  I figure that I might put in a house rule that the Japanese will not attack the Russians unless the Russians attack first.  Also, any American aircraft that lands in Russian territory while operating in the Pacific is lost to the American player as the aircraft and the crew are interned.  Japan needs to go south, not northwest.


  • @timerover51:

    @Flying:

    Is there anyother incentive for Japan not to attack Russia to make it historical? I would still think some pressure on Russia from Japan is best for Axis.

    Given how badly the Russians under Zhukov mangled the Japanese 23rd Infantry Division at Nomanhan in August and September of 1939, the Japanese Army really, really, really did not want to tackle the Russians in any way, shape, or form.  I figure that I might put in a house rule that the Japanese will not attack the Russians unless the Russians attack first.  Also, any American aircraft that lands in Russian territory while operating in the Pacific is lost to the American player as the aircraft and the crew are interned.  Japan needs to go south, not northwest.

    Does that American FTR / BMR crew become Russian?


  • Maybe you could make a house rule where you place like 10 neutral INF in the Russian space adjacent the Japanese front line.

    Russia can’t use them to attack, they will just be there to defend.  They would represent any native resistance groups in the area.

    I know this idea has bugs to work out but I’m not getting that warm fuzzy feeling WotC fixed this game.

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    I know this idea has bugs to work out but I’m not getting that warm fuzzy feeling WotC fixed this game.

    Oh no the complainers are starting in. Its too early to say that im afraid. 😄


  • @LT04:

    Maybe you could make a house rule where you place like 10 neutral INF in the Russian space adjacent the Japanese front line.

    Russia can’t use them to attack, they will just be there to defend.  They would represent any native resistance groups in the area.

    I know this idea has bugs to work out but I’m not getting that warm fuzzy feeling WotC fixed this game.

    Troops, we still do not have a full understanding of the map, scenario set up, rule changes, or production figures.  Isn’t it a little early to start worrying?  And isn’t fixing perceived problems what house rules are for?  There are very few games that I own that I have not tampered with the rules to a greater or lessor degree.  One house rule that I am thinking about for A&A50 is one that I use in A&A Pacific, and that is that the Japanese player must take Borneo by turn 4 or have its fleet and planes stop dead because of lack of fuel.  I might do that for Japan but make it more like turn 3 in A&A50.  However, no decision will be made until I have the game in my eager little hands.


  • @LT04:

    Maybe you could make a house rule where you place like 10 neutral INF in the Russian space adjacent the Japanese front line.

    Russia can’t use them to attack, they will just be there to defend.  They would represent any native resistance groups in the area.

    I know this idea has bugs to work out but I’m not getting that warm fuzzy feeling WotC fixed this game.

    People need to relax on the whole Japan vs Russia thing. As long as you see Allied troops marching through Karelia to help defend Moscow, this game is not historical. So seeing Japan attacking Russia is not a big deal…


  • @timerover51:

    One house rule that I am thinking about for A&A50 is one that I use in A&A Pacific, and that is that the Japanese player must take Borneo by turn 4 or have its fleet and planes stop dead because of lack of fuel.

    You really want a scriptet game, now do you ? How fun  😛


  • @Adlertag:

    @timerover51:

    One house rule that I am thinking about for A&A50 is one that I use in A&A Pacific, and that is that the Japanese player must take Borneo by turn 4 or have its fleet and planes stop dead because of lack of fuel.

    You really want a scriptet game, now do you ? How fun  😛

    Without oil from Borneo, Japan’s navy is out of fuel in 6 months, and the military is out of gasoline in one year.  In the WW2 period, there is no oil in Siberia, and even if there was, the Japanese lacked the resources to get at it.  They were very dependent on taking the Borneo and Dutch East Indies oil fields and refineries with minimal damage, as they had no capacity for major repairs.  The fields near Tawi Tawi were especially prised as the raw crude could be used directly as boiler fuel without refining.  That did make it a bit explosive, however, as the Taiho discovered.  If the Japanese player in any of my games wishes to ignor the needed resources, I will happily see him attack Siberia.  And enjoy it immensely when the Allies exterminate his navy and air force when they cannot move for lack of fuel.

    The Japanese fought WW2 for resources that they needed to finish off China, not for any love of Germany and Italy, both of whom aided China militarily in the late 1930s.  I would recommend you read either Kogun or Japan’s Decision for War for a better understanding of Japanese thinking.  As for actual Japanese behavior, the US sent Lend-Lease shipments on Russian-flagged Liberty ships through the Sea of Japan all the way up to August of 1945.  The shipments were either of food, for Siberia, to make up for the loss of the Ukraine, or military equipment and trucks, which were sent via the Siberian Railway to the Eastern Front.

    I understand, Aldertag, that you would much prefer Japan to be a willing servant of the Germans, and attack Russia at the same time you do.  That does make it easier for Germany to win.  I have no interest whatsoever in making it easier for Germany to win.  If you do not like that, I am not asking you to adopt any of my house rules.  You may play any way that you wish.  I hope that you will allow the Allies to win occasionally, but I do not expect that.

  • Customizer

    Trying to remember my NAP rule…

    The USSR cannot attack Japan, or allow USA or UK to use its territory to attack Japan, until an Axis capitol has fallen to the Allies;

    Japan cannot attack the USSR, or allow G or I to use its territory to attack the USSR, until an Allied capitol has fallen to the Axis.

    Simple and historical, without the need to Gerrymander the game by having National objectives or “bonus” areas.


  • love it it is perfect except 1 thing this forum is house rules you know there is a forum for this laugh out loud. Anyways if you really want a house rule russia can only attack japan if japan has no land territories left (russia gets to use there coastal spots on the east for ipc factories when taken it is useless for the axis because they burn it p:) this ability is lost when the axis gain an original terrritory of japans or japan gets an asian territory (africa mid east and south america does not count)

  • '10

    Japan needs an IC in Manchuria to deal with russian and chinese infantry and advance in both countries. To ignore russian territories because of low IPC income will be a mistake.

    … and the only reason to dig throug the chinese - is to grab the russians at their hairy bxxxx.

    The sea of Japan (Sz 62) is ideal for supporting the advance into russia and china.


  • china is an excuse to hit the beloved russians!

  • '10

    One of the major changes I think they were going for in the design, both with the addition of CHINA and the Historical Territory bonus was to reduce the USSR - JAPAN conflict.  This is what bothered me most about the Rev Edition…  The fact that Japan ALWAYS attacked Russia to Pincer with German Forces.

    It will still be a factor but they have given Japan alot more to chew on in Asia which makes the USSR - Japan conflict a side show I think.

    Can’t wait to see how it actually works out once we have the game in a few weeks!

  • '17 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    few weeks? its 9 days away.

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