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WORLD WAR 3



  • Who would win?


  • 2007 AAR League

    I voted nobody because neither one would have been able to conquer the other. They would only have been fighting over Europe.

    But, in the battle for Europe I would have to say definitely Russia in 1955 and shifting to the US sometime around 1980, if at all. I really don’t see the US gaining a significant edge over Russia until the 90’s.



  • I have to wonder how much the 1969 border fighting between Russia and China would have influenced the outcome. After that point the Soviets would have felt compelled to keep a large presence along that border just in case. Supposedly a KGB agent approached our side to see how we might react to a Soviet strike on China’s nuclear facilities. If so that shows a concern by the Soviets about some form of US - Chinese co-operation in a time of open hostilities. Surely both sides had to factor in the possibility of Chinese involvement if war in Europe had broken out. China also didn’t enjoy it’s role as the number 2 commie power and everyone know it. Yet more reason for the Soviets to concider Chinese involvement.



  • I’m curious how the air, land and naval engagments would have played out.


  • 2017 2016 2015 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Collapse of civilization if full nuke exchange occurs, but USA would win because it would have more survivors to finish the fight.



  • How do you think the massive tank battles over Europe would result?


  • 2007 AAR League

    @ABWorsham:

    How do you think the massive tank battles over Europe would result?

    As far as I could tell, even up until the 80’s NATO had just accepted the fact that Europe would be overrun. Their main objective was just to inflict unnacceptable casualties to the Russians.

    @11HP20:

    I have to wonder how much the 1969 border fighting between Russia and China would have influenced the outcome. After that point the Soviets would have felt compelled to keep a large presence along that border just in case. Supposedly a KGB agent approached our side to see how we might react to a Soviet strike on China’s nuclear facilities. If so that shows a concern by the Soviets about some form of US - Chinese co-operation in a time of open hostilities. Surely both sides had to factor in the possibility of Chinese involvement if war in Europe had broken out. China also didn’t enjoy it’s role as the number 2 commie power and everyone know it. Yet more reason for the Soviets to concider Chinese involvement.

    Well, seeing as how in 69’ we were engaged in a war specifically to combat the spread of communism, I doubt that there would be any cooperation between us and China. A communist was an enemy no matter where they came from.

    And the Russians did have to consider China if they got into a European war. But there are plenty of factors that were in the Russian’s favor.

    First, China wouldn’t be able to devote their entire army against Russia because of India. Since the 50’s, China and India have been in border disputes and they even had a small scale war over it in 1962. India was Russia’s ally in that region so there is no doubt that the Indians would have at the very least tested the Chinese defenses on their border. Especially if China left it lightly defended.

    Second, most of Russia’s resources and manufacturing is in the west of the country so they could afford to engage in a fighting withdrawal with a far smaller force without losing anything important for quite a while. Probably long enough for them to overrun Europe and then turn the bulk of what was left back toward the Chinese.

    Third, the vast majority of China’s army was non-mechanized infantry so their progress would be very slow and the Russians wouldn’t have to worry that the Chinese could do the mass encirclements that the nazi’s had done to them in WWII. As a matter of fact, with a few strategically placed armored divisions and carefully laid traps, the Russians could probably execute a few mass encirclements on the Chinese.

    Lastly, the border region between China and Russia is extremely mountainous. Of course, the Chinese would easily make it past the mountains into the steppes of Russia but the fact that the only paths through those mountains were non-paved roads it would be a major barrier to their reinforcements and supply lines. It would be tiring for the infantry to walk through, costly in gas for their tanks and trucks to cross, and with such a massive army those paths would be choked with millions of people and vehicles trying to jam their way through. Resupply would be problematic and those mountain roads would be juicy targets for Russian aircraft.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @U-505:

    @ABWorsham:

    How do you think the massive tank battles over Europe would result?

    Lastly, the border region between China and Russia is extremely mountainous. Of course, the Chinese would easily make it past the mountains into the steppes of Russia but the fact that the only paths through those mountains were non-paved roads it would be a major barrier to their reinforcements and supply lines. It would be tiring for the infantry to walk through, costly in gas for their tanks and trucks to cross, and with such a massive army those paths would be choked with millions of people and vehicles trying to jam their way through. Resupply would be problematic and those mountain roads would be juicy targets for Russian aircraft.

    and in gets even better at winter at -50 -60 Celzius

    the Chinese wouldnt stand a chance

    would froze to death only


  • 2007 AAR League

    and to your question. nobody would win. And in the mid of one side greatly prevailing over other it would likely trigger nuclear war



  • If we ranked NATO and Soviet equipment how would they compare?


  • 2007 AAR League

    An all out war with the West would have presented Russia with a real problem, it’s very likely the Warsaw Pact countries would turn on their Soviet masters.



  • @Emperor:

    An all out war with the West would have presented Russia with a real problem, it’s very likely the Warsaw Pact countries would turn on their Soviet masters.

    That’s so true. The Soviets were very brutal towards their satellite nations.



  • Since I was in the Army during this period, it was not an academic discussion for me.  I did tend to argue that the US and Allies would win, based on the response I would get to the following question.

    “Would you as a USSR army commander really launch an attack on West Germany with your principal supply lines running through Poland, and your secondary ones running through Czechoslovakia?”  I got the most interesting looks.

    Second, for those interested, look up a book called Dropshot, which gives some idea of US  Cold War planning.  It assumed a major war starting in 1957.



  • @timerover51:

    Since I was in the Army during this period, it was not an academic discussion for me.  I did tend to argue that the US and Allies would win, based on the response I would get to the following question.

    “Would you as a USSR army commander really launch an attack on West Germany with your principal supply lines running through Poland, and your secondary ones running through Czechoslovakia?”  I got the most interesting looks.

    With the uprisings in Eastern Europe in the late 1950’s, I would say, “No.”. Interesting perspective, timerover51. I hadn’t thought about that before. American logistics were superior to Soviet logistics (in Europe, at least.)


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    In a war with both sides equivalent in power, there would be no winner but the cockroaches.

    However, history would have recorded the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics the winner because, and this is my personal opinion, Europe would have folded like a deck of cards and America would have sued for peace long before being invaded itself.



  • @Cmdr:

    In a war with both sides equivalent in power, there would be no winner but the cockroaches.

    However, history would have recorded the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics the winner because, and this is my personal opinion, Europe would have folded like a deck of cards and America would have sued for peace long before being invaded itself.

    I don’t agree. The United States had a much superior economy and military at the end of world war 2 and through most of the cold war. I don’t think ALL of Europe would have folded (at least not the UK and its satelites), but the French definately would.



  • The United States was 100% dependent on the use of tactical nuclear weapons as a defense against the Warsaw Pact in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

    IF we could have used those tactical nukes, we may have been able to hold the line somewhere in Europe.

    However, the political climate would NOT have allowed for the use of nukes in Europe…  thus the Soviet advantage in men and tanks would have eventually ground out a win in Europe.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @ncscswitch:

    The United States was 100% dependent on the use of tactical nuclear weapons as a defense against the Warsaw Pact in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

    IF we could have used those tactical nukes, we may have been able to hold the line somewhere in Europe.

    However, the political climate would NOT have allowed for the use of nukes in Europe…  thus the Soviet advantage in men and tanks would have eventually ground out a win in Europe.

    speaking of Europe

    in the early after war years( 1948-1949) The Soviets were having plans of attacking Western Europe(France) & supporting the communists there

    Stalin made a calculation. It would be 3 days for the Soviet tanks to overrun France.

    At that time Soviet Union and their satelites were  :evil: :?

    later with time passing the USSR&Warsaw Pact was inferior to NATO.  Economy produces military and the USSR economy was poor and with the time passing the people were simply loosing motivation to work. As you previously explained to me in the Ronald Reagan years USSR was on its knees.

    Well then Gorbachev showed up and realized that USSR is fallen. It cannot go further.

    And if i may link upon now USA-Russian rivalry. Well definitely in the 90-s the USA was way ahead, but Russia still had military might( Yeltsin) but was economically weak.

    Then Putin rose up. Now Medvedev too.

    And in the long run i simply doubt that USA(and her proxies) will ever again (significantly) match Russia(and her proxies) in military might.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @Cmdr:

    In a war with both sides equivalent in power, there would be no winner but the cockroaches.

    However, history would have recorded the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics the winner because, and this is my personal opinion, Europe would have folded like a deck of cards and America would have sued for peace long before being invaded itself.

    I disagree, I believe Europe would have met the challenge.  The wildcard would have been France, having withdrawn from NATO’s military command, would they honor their commitment to the alliance?  Given an all out war I think they would.  The danger had always been that Germany would be overrun before US reinforcements could arrive.  The inclusion of France would have provided SACEUR the depth it needed on the central front to absorb the initial Soviet offensive and provide a staging area for US reinforcements to launch counter attack.


  • 2007 AAR League

    @ncscswitch:

    The United States was 100% dependent on the use of tactical nuclear weapons as a defense against the Warsaw Pact in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

    IF we could have used those tactical nukes, we may have been able to hold the line somewhere in Europe.

    However, the political climate would NOT have allowed for the use of nukes in Europe…  thus the Soviet advantage in men and tanks would have eventually ground out a win in Europe.

    NATO planning included options for the use of Tactical Nukes, but to say that we were 100% dependent on them is folly.  That said, during the 1970’s our conventional forces were in a sorry shape, and it may have well come down to that, but then came Reagan, enough said.



  • Is it true or just myth that the Soviets could launch a 50,000 tank invasion of Western Europe?

    The thought of a Kursk type of tank battle between Soviet and NATO countries is captivating.



  • Well there was a shiz load of those T54s.



  • @Imperious:

    Collapse of civilization if full nuke exchange occurs, but USA would win because it would have more survivors to finish the fight.

    I agree with Imperious Leader. I can’t see us actually taking their whole nation with force but I can see them reaching terms of surrender with us to stop the bloodshed. I think both side would have been pretty motivated to reach an agreement for the fighting to stop but I voted for the US to come out on top.



  • @Obergruppenfuhrer:

    @Imperious:

    Collapse of civilization if full nuke exchange occurs, but USA would win because it would have more survivors to finish the fight.

    I agree with Imperious Leader. I can’t see us actually taking their whole nation with force but I can see them reaching terms of surrender with us to stop the bloodshed. I think both side would have been pretty motivated to reach an agreement for the fighting to stop but I voted for the US to come out on top.

    That’s true. The Soviets, if we had waged a war to conquer their entire country, would have waged guerilla warefare.



  • We have talked much about Europe in this discussion. If China remained neutral or sided with the Soviets would South Korea and Japan repel communist invasions?


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