Checklists for Dummies (AARHE 4.0)



  • Combat Movement - Naval (2/2)

    …a stab at Naval Movement.

    Note:  I tried to integrate page references - let me know if this is worth continuing.

    AAHRE 4 0 Combat Movement Naval Diagram v2.png


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    no i would leave them off, because we may need to add some text for clarifications and this may place new page numbers on individual sections and we don’t need to change your charts when we do this.



  • Then use the section number.  I don’t see that changing without a major rewrite.  BW:  We may need to reference our sections by i.e. 8.0 8.1 8.2 etc.  then reference those.

    its going to be very handy for example if i have to reference (in Diplomacy 8.0) the section of attacking neutrals which you are putting in  the combat section.  It will be much much easirer for someone reading the charts to have a reference than trying to find it on their own.

    Look at it this way.  If those of you more experienced in the AARHE rules are generating the depates and Qs, think of the complexity a newer player will face.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yes thats important point… its a checklist for dummys…so noobs need to have it presented as easy as possible. When they get their feet wet they can use it to train others using these materials.



  • Pls read entire post as Im trying to clear several points for the charts.

    Here is final draft of Section 8.0 Diplomacy.  BW:  I put the LOC chart on page two so there is more room on page one if you want to actually list the neutrals individually under Spere of Influence.

    Please check carefully as I’ve interpreted the numerous posts re: LOC (Level of Cooperation) at or above +/- 3 as “neutral is no longer considered neutral” as they are committed to controlling player.  Not much different as UK’s colonys.

    Points:

    1.  Opposing player can no longer roll counter diplomacy rolls
    2.  Controlling player gets IPC and level benefits
    3.  Opposing player can now attack nuetral and if succeeds, gets IPC.  If occupied, territory is treated as ony other player’s territory.

    question:  if conquered territory is liberated, does it go back to player that originaslly had diplomatic control or liberating player.  If liberating player, is it treated as full territory?

    I think this section can be more easily understood and the intent achieved if we treat any +/- 3 or higher as a colony of controlling country.  If they get IPC then then the neutral should no longer be concidered neutral as they have committed to that nation.  If an opposing player conquers and occupys that “colony” then they should get all benefits of a full occupation:

    1.  Colony is no longer a colony, as it was militarily captured, but a territory of the conquering nation. 
    2.  Conquering nation now gets ipcs and the territory is treated as any other territory.  I can’t logically see an occupied country still sending all their resources to another country that only controlled them diplomatically, or only acting as a +/- 5 neutral as a now militarily occupied country.  (I know the underground was good, but it cant be that good)

    3.  This is where I get stuck.  If the country is liberated: say UK had Turkey as a +3 cooperation and were getting benefits and IPC.  Then Germany attacks Turkey, Turkey would go to +5 for UK, UK would get its units and battle Germany.  Germany wins and occupies Turkey.  Turkey is now full territory for germany.

    a.  Now, US liberates Turkey from Germany:  who has control or does Turkey go back to neutral?
      b.  UK liberates Turkey from germany.  As turkey was a +5 for UK before German occupation, does it go back to +5 for UK? 
      c.  Based on rules of occupation for US and UK, they can never fully conquer a neutral country.  So, IMO Turkey would convert to a +5 for either US or UK.

    Sorry to be so long winded, but this section has become one of the more complicated when we look at all the nuances.

    diplomacy 7-31-08.pdf



  • Updated flow chart with the statement that diplomacy rolls can not be taken if player’s capital is occupied by unfriendly player

    diplomacy 8-1-08 draft 2.pdf



  • Question on the territories.  Where does Europe end?

    Is Turkey in Europe?  Saudi Arabia?

    I still consider myself a noob at this game.  I haven’t been around listening in on all the discussions for the last two years, so I don’t have much reachback to the touchstone of intent.

    I think the specific countries should be spelled out.

    Russia can influence:
    Afghanistan
    Mongolia
    Turkey

    Germany can influence:
    Spain
    Sweden
    Turkey
    Switzerland

    UK can influence:
    Afghanistan
    Eire
    Saudi Arabia
    Spain (via Rio De Oro)
    Turkey

    Japan:
    Mongolia

    US
    Argentina
    Mongolia
    Peru
    Venezuela

    Plus, anyone can influence anyone they touch through conquest.

    For simplicity, I like the idea of not being able to attack until it is at +3.  Once, a country becomes a sympathizer you need to be able to cut that off at the quick.

    If we don’t do this, then it will be a mad scramble for Neutrals on T1.  As US I’d invade S. America for the extra income.  UK Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, etc.  It would just be ugly.

    Perhaps something akin to “The War Game” where if you attack before it is at +/-5 they get additional random forces:

    d1:  INF
    d2:  2 * INF
    d3:  INF + ARM
    etc…

    Grasping at straws.  What a quagmire!



  • 1st question:

    France starts with 1 cv; 1 ss; 1 trans; and 1 cru.  When Germany takes over Paris france surrenders and Vichy France and Free French are set up with separate land and naval units .

    So, what happens to the original French navy?  Does germany get them as spoils of war?

    2nd question:

    China starts with 9 IPCs but no factory.  Where/how are their units placed?

    “the more I learn of this version, the less I know”!?!



  • Oh.  You’re talking 1939 and I’m talking AARHE 4.0.

    Ouch!  More confusion.



  • I feel your pain BW.  The more I learn of this version, the less I know!

    I like your list and agree.  I would put Turkey and Saudi in Middle east.  I will update the chart to list the neutrals.  See my post and Qs below.



  • I’m sit corrected BW>  My last questions were for the 1939 version and needs to be posted for IL.  Sorry.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Question on the territories.  Where does Europe end?

    Is Turkey in Europe?  Saudi Arabia?

    It ends in the middle east…all territories west of India, including Iraq, Iran, Arabia, plus Soviet territories of Moscow and all territories west of it.

    I think the specific countries should be spelled out.

    Russia can influence:
    Afghanistan=y
    Mongolia=y
    Turkey=y

    Germany can influence:
    Spain=y
    Sweden=y
    Turkey=y
    Switzerland=y

    UK can influence:
    Afghanistan=y
    Eire=y
    Saudi Arabia=y
    Spain (via Rio De Oro)=y
    Turkey=n

    Japan:
    Mongolia=y

    US
    Argentina=y
    Mongolia=n
    Peru=y
    Venezuela=y

    Plus, anyone can influence anyone they touch through conquest.

    yes correct. If you conquer the adjacent territory you can influence the neutral.

    For simplicity, I like the idea of not being able to attack until it is at +3.  Once, a country becomes a sympathizer you need to be able to cut that off at the quick.

    I suppose you can invade it to prevent it falling in enemy hands. That is what happened to Iraq, while it was feared to happen in Levant Sates, and Madagascar ( in both cases UK needed to invade them to prevent them falling to Germany)

    If we don’t do this, then it will be a mad scramble for Neutrals on T1.  As US I’d invade S. America for the extra income.  UK Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, etc.  It would just be ugly.

    America is the only player than can influence central and South America  ( exception Argentina)…so its not gonna fall in enemy hands, unless Argentina goes axis or Axis invade S America. If America invaded those neutrals it would waste time for them fighting Germany. Secondly it would turn them into pro-German allies, and possibly allow Germans to start landing stuff over there.

    Perhaps something akin to “The War Game” where if you attack before it is at +/-5 they get additional random forces:

    d1:  INF
    d2:  2 * INF
    d3:  INF + ARM
    etc…

    They have their own forces according to historical records extrapolated and abstracted in their AARHE force pool. I suppose it would be an optional rule to include random extra units to stem the tide against neutral aggression.

    Once you got a few more games in you will not value neutrals as much to your strategy.



  • @Imperious:

    UK can influence:
    Afghanistan=y
    Eire=y
    Saudi Arabia=y
    Spain (via Rio De Oro)=y
    Turkey=n

    Wow!  Even though UK has Trans-Jordan & Persia it isn’t allowed to work on Turkey.  that is a surprise for me.

    So, Russia is the only person that is left to counter Germany’s influence.

    Tough one.

    I’ll work with it.

    Like I said before, I have yet to see but one country turn in the 10 or so games we’ve played – and that was very late in the game.

    Bad rolling, maybe.  I don’t count on the Diplomacy to win the game, but it is fun to roll at the end of the turn.

    Thanks for the help on this one.



  • During the Income Phase:

    Logistics
    “Pay 1 IPC for each Transport offloading in Combat Move.”

    In “Phase 3: Combat Move” it states under “Naval Transport”:

    “Units loaded in Combat Move must be offloaded in Combat Move same turn. Besides an amphibious assault you may also offload into friendly territories”

    So I began to wonder if there is a distinction and does the player have to pay even if they aren’t attacking with the unit?

    I thought the 1 IPC penalty was intended to model the fact that Amphibious Assaults are expensive.

    You shouldn’t have to pay it just to move troops to another country – then again you shouldn’t be doing that during Combat Move but rather Non-Combat Move.

    Insights?


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Wow!  Even though UK has Trans-Jordan & Persia it isn’t allowed to work on Turkey.  that is a surprise for me.

    OK wait: I misspoke. UK Can influence Turkey. I forgot they had adjacent territories from it.

    So, Russia is the only person that is left to counter Germany’s influence.

    UK can do it. Never mind last post on Turkey.

    Like I said before, I have yet to see but one country turn in the 10 or so games we’ve played – and that was very late in the game.

    Bad rolling, maybe.  I don’t count on the Diplomacy to win the game, but it is fun to roll at the end of the turn.

    Thanks for the help on this one.

    yes like i said you need not worry so much about trying to win the game by converting neutrals. THATS not the way to win. Neutrals will convert if and when you control all the adjacent territories and isolate them with all those +1 rolls.

    Stop worrying so much about how to get “spain as German ally on turn 1” its not happening. The best you can hope for is take gibrater and hold france and get +2 on diplomacy and fight allied counter rolls.



  • Checklist for Dummies.

    I didn’t get as far as I wanted to tonight, but here’s my first stab.

    Chicklets for Dummies AARHE Phase 1-3.doc



  • … and the converted Diplomacy checklist as well.

    Chicklets for Dummies AARHE Phase 4-8.doc


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This is much easier to read and understand. I think you can do the entire ruleset in under 10 pages in this outline mode.

    good job.



  • Here is something I’ve done for the 1939 rule version (Attached).  Not nearly as complex as Bierwagon’s outline but I think I will try to incorporate it with BW’s outline when it’s finished.  Much of the 1939 variences are on this, but not all.  Which is why  our group also needs an outline for the 1939 variences.

    BW, thought our flow diagrams were kick a**!  8-)  Looks like you have the outline well in hand.  Do you need any help?  Glad to do it as our group in similar situation.  I will also start working on a 1939 version.

    I’ve also made a MS Word version of the individual nation’s advantages layed out to print the size of a playing card.

    note:  unfortunately, the background on the attachment makes the file too large so it doesn’t have the shadow graphics of the generals for each nation.

    France master set up.doc



  • Wow!  Sweetness!

    Where did you find all the 1939 rules?  The ones I have doesn’t have all the phases and stages (e.g., defensive ground reinforcement, pre-emptive fire, etc.).  Those look like AARHE 2.0 or so from earlier this year.

    I’m intrigued!

    I agree the flow diagrams are kick butt – and I intend to get back to them.  The outline is more of a stream of consciousness that just flows.

    Until my groups gets a better handle on the basics I need to very detailed flow of the outline.  Hopefully I can pare it down a bit to just a quick reference overview.



  • IL is probably pulling his hair out right about now!  This was for illustrative purposes only  (although is 95% accurate)!

    Like your group, we graduated from AAR and AARe and others.  However, we find the play and map varients of AARHE 1939 to be more realistic, strategic and challenging.  IL and others did a fantastic job with the 1939 map and play rules, although I think it was mostlly IL for this version.

    That said, we had a few rules carried over.  We had too many players wanting too many variences which was becoming way to complicated.  So, I became the marshall (he who ownes the map makes the rules)  8-) Once we digest AARHE (which is a challenge in itself) then we will look at a reasonable number of variences - Pre-emptive artillary and CAP (carried over from AAP).

    What I finally got across to our group was that throwing too many variences into a game that has been play tested by players far more experienced than us, even though they may be fun and worked in other games, will probably upset the balance.  (Of course, more than once I had to threaten to take my map and go home  😄 )  Not really, but I suspect you have similar issues.

    That is why I’m so interested in you outline for AARHE that I can then adjust for 1939 version.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    IL is probably pulling his hair out right about now!  This was for illustrative purposes only  (although is 95% accurate)!

    Like your group, we graduated from AAR and AARe and others.  However, we find the play and map varients of AARHE 1939 to be more realistic, strategic and challenging.  IL and others did a fantastic job with the 1939 map and play rules, although I think it was mostlly IL for this version.

    That said, we had a few rules carried over.  We had too many players wanting too many variances which was becoming way to complicated.  So, I became the Marshall (he who ownes the map makes the rules)  cool Once we digest AARHE (which is a challenge in itself) then we will look at a reasonable number of variances - Pre-emptive artillary and CAP (carried over from AAP).

    What I finally got across to our group was that throwing too many variances into a game that has been play tested by players far more experienced than us, even though they may be fun and worked in other games, will probably upset the balance.  (Of course, more than once I had to threaten to take my map and go home  grin )  Not really, but I suspect you have similar issues.

    That is why I’m so interested in you outline for AARHE that I can then adjust for 1939 version.

    Yes lets just get the full outline done, then modify a version for 1939 and then at that point we will see if and where we need to draw clarifications to the ruleset. I will do this myself after we decide where the text needs to be modified. all in due time.



  • Gah!

    I’m taking IL at his word.  He told me “ask away… that’s what I’m here for” 😉

    So, sadly, I have to get ready for today’s game – starts at 1500L and must press out of here.

    IL I’ll send you the checklist via e-mail because it went to 323KB and I can’t upload it anymore.

    Thanks for all the Q&A!

    More to follow.

    • Bierwagen


  • Where did you find all the 1939 rules?  The ones I have doesn’t have all the phases and stages (e.g., defensive ground reinforcement,

    pg 12 Under Non-Combat Move (I think was misplaced as the move is taken after enemy’s combat moves are declared not conducted)

    Reinforcement
    During your enemy’s turn (your passive turn), after all combat moves are declared you may declare Reinforcements.
    This may not be performed during USSR player’s special opening turn.
    Land or naval units may move to adjacent friendly territories or adjacent friendly sea zones. Units that
    conducted combat this turn may not perform this.

    Defensive Air Support
    During your enemies’ turn (your passive turn), after all combat moves are declared you may declare Defensive
    Air Support. This may not be performed during USSR player’s special opening-turn.
    Air units may move to adjacent friendly territories or any adjacent sea zones. DAS are declared after all
    combat moves are declared and before resolving any combats. DAS does not interrupt naval movement.

    Their was a long post discussion that armor and planes could move two spaces but then enter on combat round two, but that was voted down.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Yes right. Another idea under considerations was this:

    all land units that move 2 spaces, but only use one movement point to get in combat can do one of two new things:

    1. make a breakthrough attack of one space providing they won the battle, only those land units with leftover MP and un allocated planes can perform this special attack.

    2. make a second move out of the territory they just attacked to protect them from counterattack.


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