Tax Increases for the Rich?

Politics. Probably it will be closed (you know, economics morph to politics easily).

I’ll only say that rich ones evade taxes much much more than middle and lower classes. So they may pay the 40%, but problably they should pay even more because they evade easier. And maybe they pay 40%, but what % of the richness they own? Surely more than 40%  :roll:

Basing taxes on how much income you generate is patently un-American.  American culture dictates that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and therefore, all men should be treated equally.  If one man has more of a burden to maintain society than another, then things are not equal.

However, Func’s right, this is definitely a political topic.  You are talking taxes.  Taxes are controlled by the US Congress.  The US Congress is a political organization.  Therefore, talking about taxes is talking politics.

Here’s a novel idea every one pays 22% income tax we abolish all other taxes in the US and lay off the entire IRS. No tax deductions, no loop holes, no credits, just a flat 22% tax on income only.

And if we really want to clean house I say we abolish the federal level census offices.  Just add the numbers from the state offices.  H*** I’ll do that for the federal government for $50,000.00 a year. We just saved millions.

LT

I agree with Funcioneta. It’s just a bit easier to live on 60% of $388,000 than 100% of $50,000. And $50,000 is a relatively high number even if it is median. In order for a family to make that, then at least one of the people in the household has to be, usually, skilled labor or a college graduate.

And if you assume that it takes both family members an average of 4 gallons of gas to get to work and back every day, that’s almost 10% of their yearly pre-tax income. And that’s just for work. On gas. It doesn’t take into account gas for other things or food or rent/mortgage or utilities or their kids for that matter. And this is considering $50,000/year. What about those families making minimum wage from both spouses?

How are they supposed to afford their alcohol, hookers and crack with all of those expenses? Hell, I myself may have to cut back on one or two of those. But which one?! I’m torn!

@LT04:

Here’s a novel idea every one pays 22% income tax we abolish all other taxes in the US and lay off the entire IRS. No tax deductions, no loop holes, no credits, just a flat 22% tax on income only.

They’ll tell you that’s a regressive tax. (Which is an oxy moron, all income taxes no matter who you tax is regressive - that’s the bloody point!)

Better would be a straight up sales tax.  Anything bought or sold should be taxed at 15% (or whatever number is determined to be needed, I am using 15% as an example) except:

Food (defined as meat, dairy, vegetables, breads and fruits but does not include candies, sodas, ice cream, etc)
Water (even bottled water)
and
Medicine (prescription only, of course.)

That would not be overly regressive, would be fair to all, would allow the poor to remain tax exempt (what hobo is buying a Lincoln Continental?  Yea, thought so) and would hit even the people who attempt to dodge the taxes (since they’d have to pay them when they bought their stuff.)

Yes, there’d be a black market to avoid some taxes, but honestly, the premium charged by the black marketeers would prevent many items from being sold on the black market forcing them to be bought retail and charged taxes.  After all, what’s the point in paying a 10% markup to avoid a 15% tax on an item that costs $50.00 USD?  Especially if you risk 7-10 in a federal penn and a $10,000 USD fine for tax evasion?

There is currently a well researched proposal called The Fair Tax, that was researched by economist, economics schools, business groups, etc.

The tax level is 22% or 23%, has NO exclusions, but does refund 100% of the tax level for all taxes paid for all spending to the poverty level.  It is revenue neutral to the current myriad of government taxes.

With this plan, basic housing, basic transportation, etc. are all tax exempt as well instead of just food and medicine.  It also would tax a Caviar Party at $2000 a plate instead of that being tax exempt because it is “food”.  Used items are exempt, the tax is only paid once.

A populace that is 100% in control of their level of taxation every moment of every day…

Politically it is a non-issue.  Economically, probably the single best option for our economic growth in the past 100 years.

1)I say get rid of property taxes unless you buy or sell
2)Get rid of all public parking meters
3)Get rid of all taxes that are geared in any way to redistribute wealth or other shenanigan’s
4)just charge tax on products bought and sold paid by business originally and passed to the consumer. Luxury goods cost a but more.
5)Remove all inheritance taxation of any type
6) Nationalize key industries that effect consumer and business ( oil, electricity, heating) This is very un-American but not unlike a form of imminent domain–- just take over the oil companies and the profits to offset new tax code.
7) leave the rich alone -except item #7

@Imperious:

1)I say get rid of property taxes unless you buy or sell

That would be an overly cumbersome tax burden, better to distribute that “tax” over 30 years payable in full if you sell or something, but that may be regressive as well since it could lock families into an inconvenient home.

2)Get rid of all public parking meters

These really are not a tax, they’re a convenience fee.  They help keep parking open for customers as well, since no one wants to run out side to put a quarter in the meter every 20 minutes. ^_^

3)Get rid of all taxes that are geared in any way to redistribute wealth or other shenanigan’s \

Amen

4)just charge tax on products bought and sold paid by business originally and passed to the consumer. Luxury goods cost a but more.

5)Remove all inheritance taxation of any type

Fair tax plans do that.  You only pay a tax on goods purchased.  Inheritance is not purchased, it’s inherited.

6. Nationalize key industries that effect consumer and business ( oil, electricity, heating) This is very un-American but not unlike a form of imminent domain–- just take over the oil companies and the profits to offset new tax code.

No, charge them a clean-up fee and sell them the oil they are drilling or the trees they are cutting or whatever the natural resource is.  Obviously at a discount so they can make a profit, but enough so that the people also make a profit.  You know, a profit sharing plan like they have in Iraq where the people sell the oil to the drilling companies, the companies drill it, charge the refiners for the drilling costs, plus the cost of the oil, plus the labor cost and a bit for profit, etc, etc, etc.

7. leave the rich alone -except item #7

If you punish a person for accumulating wealth, everyone will become poor except the extremely powerful.  Income tax is a method designed to create a two class state:  The Powerful Elite (Bush’s, Kennedy’s, Clinton’s, Roosevelt’s, etc) and the rest of us (generally on welfare and social security too keep us dependent.)

2)Get rid of all public parking meters

These really are not a tax, they’re a convenience fee.  They help keep parking open for customers as well, since no one wants to run out side to put a quarter in the meter every 20 minutes. ^_^

They are a form of government tricks to generate income leading from parking tickets which is basically taxes. The governments job should be to promote an environment of people spending money and driving business by consumerism. The government creates all sorts of ‘Bank of America’ types of fees because they want a guaranteed share of wealth because they don’t want to wait or believe that an environment fostering business will eventually reward them.

Each business should be required to maintain a certain number of parking spaces before they can even open. Nothing worse than those restaurants that co-op the public street with stupid valet thieves and who park your car on the sidewalk and have the temerity to charge you after they stole money from your car and dented it and latter deny they did anything wrong. Parking meters should be all removed and anybody just leaving the car to shop should not have to worry. This is especially true in large cities where too many business don’t have any parking whatsoever and burden everybody else with their lack of planning.

I under stand where you are coming from IL.  However, they are more a usage fee you pay the government and not a tax.  If they were a tax, everyone would have to pay it if they owned a car. We have that, it’s called a village sticker and license plates, etc.

Tollways
Postage Stamps
Parking Meters (if owned by a government agency, not all are)
Building Permits
Copies of Government Documents (Birth Certificates, etc)

Etc

Are all really usage/convenience fees and not really taxes.  If you don’t want the product or service, you don’t pay for it.  However, it’s more convenient to use the product or service, thus, you may pay a fee for it, to offset the cost incurred by the government/village.  After all, why should Jose Sanchez in Juno, Alaska have to pay extra taxes for John Smith to get a copy of his father’s Death Certificate in Springfield, Illinois?

@Cmdr:

Basing taxes on how much income you generate is patently un-American.  American culture dictates that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL and therefore, all men should be treated equally.  If one man has more of a burden to maintain society than another, then things are not equal.

Obviously all men aren’t equal in the eyes of the law.

For everyone that harps on hand outs, they never look to see how much the wealthy rely on the lower classes to build and keep their wealth.

No one ever questions the additional draw on social services, or that their sheer economic power allows them to persuade local governments to pay for their developments, just as a couple of examples.

Sure, the poor benefit, but I would argue the rich benefit SOOOOO much more.

Never said I had a problem with hands up, Jermo.  But all men are created equal in this country.  If you’re a bungling idiot you can easily move from a luxurious mansion to a trailer park and likewise, if you are savvy enough, you can move from the trailer park to a luxurious mansion.

But punishing someone for succeeding does not, in my opinion, make any sense.  Do we want a country of under achievers?  After all, you only punish a child when they do wrong.  Since taxes are, in essence, a punishment for you accumulating wealth, it appears you want people to under achieve so as to avoid punishment.

Better would be to dictate a level of “duty” all citizens must render.  The easiest way would be to go with a sales tax, this way those citizens who cannot meet even this level of duty can still get all the benefits, while those who can afford the extra duty may chose to do so and enjoy some of the finer things in life.

Perhaps the poor man can only afford a used 1982 Chevy Malibu so he has a duty of 5% and that is $20.  But the rich man wants a 2008 Bentley so his duty is closer to $12,000.  They have the same duty, because they pay the same percentage.  But one man has chosen a more luxurious life style and has volunteered to pay more duty than another man and thus, picks up the slack.

And let’s pretend there is a third man.  He lost his leg in Iraq and is recovering, but can no longer work as an infantryman.  So he gets a hand up from others who decide to pay more duty than others (because they want finer things.)  So this ex-infantryman is paid to go to college and train in a new field and becomes a rocket scientist.  He then later turns out to be the next man to buy a Bentley and for his daughter a Ferrari and pays his duty so the next man can get his hand up.

Notice, I am using the phrase hand up, not hand out.  Hand outs are how you enslave people.  Hand ups are how you help the down trodden get back on their feet and become productive citizens again, instead of destructive.

The tax level is 22% or 23%

my god thats a huge amount to pay. Its a cure worse than the illness.

just tax anything sold at about 15% and luxury goods a bit more. Get rid of tax.

That way illegals have to pay and its ‘the more you buy the more you pay’ system. Rich people buy more stuff and they will pay more naturally.

It would encourage saving money too.

i am quite sure that 22% thing involves wealth redistribution on some level.

Again, for those who would choose to not actually read about a proposal but would make snap judgements based on false assumptions…

The Fair Tax would prebate (pay in advance each month) the full amount of all taxes that would be spent to the poverty line for a household of whatever size.  The only way you actually end up with net tax payments is to spend more on services and new goods than poverty level spending.

It also replaces not only the Income Tax (which is only paid by 48% of Americans) but also the entire Social Security Wage Tax (paid by every worker, with a duplicate amount paid by each employer), Medicare tax, etc.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

@Cmdr:

Why do you think President Jackson was so proud when he obliterated the income tax during his presidency?

Uhhh. Andrew Jackson abolished the National Bank, not income tax but, I can play this game too. Did you know that Lincoln was wounded at Gettysburg repelling Pickett’s charge?

All I know is that a tax is only a punishment if it makes you lose money in the long run and judging by the fact that the income gap between the rich and the middle class/poor is growing then it appears that the progressive tax isn’t very punishing if the rich can manage to scrape their pennies together and continue to accumulate wealth.

I think some people assume that if the rich are allowed to pay less in taxes then they will consume more. They won’t to any significant degree. What they will do, is invest that money they saved. Which will mean an even faster accumulation of wealth. Any flat tax or sales based tax that allows the rich to pay less in taxes is just going to allow them to widen that income gap faster than it already is. All you would be doing is allowing them an increased ability for wealth condensation.

This looks like it turned into a political discussion. I’m locking it down.