KJF Round 1



  • without a G1 naval buy, how do you protect your baltic fleet from the Brits?



  • Arrr, captain jack, you thread pirrrate u.

    Better start a new thread and label it “Please advise: Germany Turn 1 with No Bid” or some such thing.

    This ain’t KJF Round 1 no more.

    Arrr!



  • Which fleet? Those ships in the seazone 5?  😄

    Well I do not care at all, if UK wants to sink them he can. My first priority is to build up my army.

    Churchill said that a strong fleet is a necessity for UK but is a luxury for Germany.

    Naturally you may build ships with Germany and you may use them to create a lot of problems to allies. Sometimes I try to become a naval power with Germany but it give less solidity on the gorund.



  • @Bunnies:

    Arrr, captain jack, you thread pirrrate u.

    Better start a new thread and label it “Please advise: Germany Turn 1 with No Bid” or some such thing.

    This ain’t KJF Round 1 no more.

    Arrr!

    You’re right - my apologies!!


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @captainjack:

    without a G1 naval buy, how do you protect your baltic fleet from the Brits?

    Destroyer, Transport, 2 Submarines from SZ 5 to SZ 7
    Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to SZ 15

    Let England attack you in SZ 7 and then you can crush him with your air-force and navy.

    or

    Submarine to SZ 7, Submarine to SZ 3, Transport, Destroyer to SZ 6

    or

    Just leave them all in SZ 5 and take out two or three British aircraft and lose the navy.

    Just a few suggestions.


    Honestly, my Round 1 German Purchases have been going more to the 5 Infantry, Fighter, Bomber route lately.  Something nice about 6 or 7 fighters and 2 bombers on Germany 2.



  • @Cmdr:

    Destroyer, Transport, 2 Submarines from SZ 5 to SZ 7
    Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to SZ 15


    Honestly, my Round 1 German Purchases have been going more to the 5 Infantry, Fighter, Bomber route lately.  Something nice about 6 or 7 fighters and 2 bombers on Germany 2.

    Should be: Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to  SZ 13

    Whit a bid also I prefer to buy fighters and panzers in G1, without a bid, I think more infantry is better.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @Romulus:

    @Cmdr:

    Destroyer, Transport, 2 Submarines from SZ 5 to SZ 7
    Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to SZ 15


    Honestly, my Round 1 German Purchases have been going more to the 5 Infantry, Fighter, Bomber route lately.  Something nice about 6 or 7 fighters and 2 bombers on Germany 2.

    Should be: Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to  SZ 13

    Whit a bid also I prefer to buy fighters and panzers in G1, without a bid, I think more infantry is better.

    Yes, thank you, my bad.  SZ 13 is the sea zone I was thinking of, with the Gibraltar Strait.  This allows Germany to pose a very credible threat to any fleet England has, especially if they foolishly sunk the Germans in SZ 7. (Which is VERY easy to do, mind you!  You can only chose to retreat if there’s an enemy still present!  😮 )

    Even if England strafes and does not get stuck in SZ 7, with all those fighters and bombers you could still jeapordize the combined allied fleets in SZ 8.

    And I agree, some of the standard builds for Germany are not optimal against all players, in my most humble opinions.  Actually, in my opinion, the added punch of the fighter and bomber on Germany one far supercedes any naval purchase Germany may buy.  Then again, my opinion is that Germany should hope that England attacks the SZ 5 fleet as this will give Germany the best chance in the entire game to destroy the Royal Air Force for units Germany does not even need.  From that point forward, killing the RAF will be very difficult, if not impossible. (Rebuilding the SZ 5 fleet is easy when you need it.  Rebuilding the RAF is very hard and may never actually be done in some games.)



  • @Cmdr:

    Honestly, my Round 1 German Purchases have been going more to the 5 Infantry, Fighter, Bomber route lately.  Something nice about 6 or 7 fighters and 2 bombers on Germany 2.

    That’s an interesting buy, I’ll have to try that…


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    @captainjack:

    @Cmdr:

    Honestly, my Round 1 German Purchases have been going more to the 5 Infantry, Fighter, Bomber route lately.  Something nice about 6 or 7 fighters and 2 bombers on Germany 2.

    That’s an interesting buy, I’ll have to try that…

    If you think that’s interesting, you should see your opponent go apoplectic thinking you’re such a big newb. (And then watch the color drain from his face when he realizes that you have the air power necessary to hold all the territories you need and threaten his shipping!)

    :evil:

    BTW, I’ve said it in a few places, but I dont think this thread.  As Germany, I like to have 3 bombers and 7 or 8 fighters.  As Japan I like to have 10 fighters and 2 bombers.

    The idea is that 5 bombers should routinely do 20 IPC in damage to the Russians on a semi consistent basis (that’s only 4 per, if you are less optimistic figure 3 each for 15.)  Odds are that you’ll lose one a round, but you do have semi-decent odds that you won’t lose any that round as well. (5/6 ~ 83%)



  • @Cmdr:

    @Romulus:

    @Cmdr:

    Destroyer, Transport, 2 Submarines from SZ 5 to SZ 7
    Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to SZ 15


    Honestly, my Round 1 German Purchases have been going more to the 5 Infantry, Fighter, Bomber route lately.  Something nice about 6 or 7 fighters and 2 bombers on Germany 2.

    Should be: Transport, Battleship from SZ 14 to  SZ 13

    Whit a bid also I prefer to buy fighters and panzers in G1, without a bid, I think more infantry is better.

    Yes, thank you, my bad.  SZ 13 is the sea zone I was thinking of, with the Gibraltar Strait.  This allows Germany to pose a very credible threat to any fleet England has, especially if they foolishly sunk the Germans in SZ 7. (Which is VERY easy to do, mind you!  You can only chose to retreat if there’s an enemy still present!  😮 )

    Even if England strafes and does not get stuck in SZ 7, with all those fighters and bombers you could still jeapordize the combined allied fleets in SZ 8.

    And I agree, some of the standard builds for Germany are not optimal against all players, in my most humble opinions.  Actually, in my opinion, the added punch of the fighter and bomber on Germany one far supercedes any naval purchase Germany may buy.  Then again, my opinion is that Germany should hope that England attacks the SZ 5 fleet as this will give Germany the best chance in the entire game to destroy the Royal Air Force for units Germany does not even need.  From that point forward, killing the RAF will be very difficult, if not impossible. (Rebuilding the SZ 5 fleet is easy when you need it.  Rebuilding the RAF is very hard and may never actually be done in some games.)

    I agree.
    In some games with German I buy the 2nd bomber, usually when I have extra income from Africa.
    I usually prefer to go buy infantry in the first round, 8-10 usually, adding 2 panzers OR a figthers. I use them to reinforce Eastern front lines. In 2nd turn I buy some other air, a often a fighter or a bomber sometime.
    Your idea on strat bombing Russia heavy is interesting.
    Last week we had a game in wich Germany (me) had 2 bombers and Japan had also 2 bombers. Incidentally we have used the strategy that you proposed with very good result.
    I started Strat bombing England then, with Japanese Bomber in position, German and Japan started both to bomb Russia. We lose two bombers (both Japanese) during 5 turns of bombing, but doing a lot of damage to Russia. We suspended the match (usually we “save” the game after 4-5 turns to continue in the next gaming session) and we will continue this week end. Germany is really powerful having 8 fighters and 2 bombers. Japan now has 6 fighters and 1 bomber, but has built a lot of infantries and tanks and is preparing assault to Moscow. The interesting thing is that Luftwaffe has keep allied navy far from Europe forcing UK and USA to build a lot of ships (AC, DD, more TRN than strictly needed) that now are powerless in helping Russia to keep Moscow. They lack ground units and airforce.



  • What are some of your typical J1 buys and combat moves?  It seems like everything I try with Japan (on land) doesn’t go very well for me.  When I go after China I win, but then I don’t have hardly any troops (if any) left in Manch, Kwang, or FIC (except for the 2 units I transport into Manch during non-combat), and then I usually get countered in China by Russia and lose (my bad luck I think), and India has an open door in FIC!!!  By the way, lately I’ve been buying 2 trn, and ground units for J1.  Thanks!



  • @captainjack:

    What are some of your typical J1 buys and combat moves?  It seems like everything I try with Japan (on land) doesn’t go very well for me.  When I go after China I win, but then I don’t have hardly any troops (if any) left in Manch, Kwang, or FIC (except for the 2 units I transport into Manch during non-combat), and then I usually get countered in China by Russia and lose (my bad luck I think), and India has an open door in FIC!!!  By the way, lately I’ve been buying 2 trn, and ground units for J1.  Thanks!

    J1 buy 3 transports 1 tank.  If they go KJF, I use transports to transport ground into Asia early, then for naval fodder; if they go KGF, I transport units from Japan and the ISLANDS into Asia.  ISLANDS have a lot of infantry that’s otherwise useless; use them.

    J2, probably (but not definitely) another 2 transports if they went KGF, plus assorted infantry.  Use transport 1-2 to grab infantry from the southern Pacific islands and play for Australia &c &c with light fighter and battleship support, and use transports 3-4 and 5-6 (just produced) on J3 to set up a Japan/Burytia - Japan/French Indochina unload (two transports unload to Burytia from Japan, two unload to French Indochina from Japan, then next turn the Burytia transports go to French Indochina picking up Japan infantry first and the French Indochina goes to Burytia picking up Japan infantry an dropping to Burytia.)

    J2 if they went KJF, switch to infantry and fighter production (fighters can be used against ground early then switch to naval targets) while using the 4th and possibly 3rd transports to grab infantry from the islands (if you don’t grab them NOW, US just whacks 'em for island bases)

    Later in the game against KGF, you build 1 IC in French Indochina or India if you can swing it, but I don’t like blowing IPCs on ICs, so I usually try to ramp up tank production instead of saving for a second IC.  (But if Japan can’t grab Caucasus, and if Japan’s income is nuts, then a second IC it is).

    Later in the game against KJF, you build some subs for additional fodder.



  • You have to attack China and buy 3 transports on J1. If Russia attack Manchuria then use transport and BB to detroy them, it is always a good thing the elimination of the russian infantries. And if UK attack FIC uses the infantries remaining in China to counterattack.


  • 2018 2017 2016 '11 Moderator

    Typically, unless I have Panzerblitz National Advantage, I try to keep Germany with as many tanks as Russia has Tanks and Planes. Everything else into infantry, AFTER round 1 when I spend just over half of Germany’s income on aircraft.

    Reason is, Germany’s using Air power for trades, not tanks.  So what do you need the tanks for?  Basically stack defense if you decide to start to lurch.



  • I buy infantry first round and 2 panzers OR 1 fighter. Really panzers are useful only to stack EE, I agree, but they help in discouraging Russian advancing in Ukraine.
    Also in our games is normal that UK, after conquering Norway, starts to advance in Karelia. My counter to that move is to strafe them when they try to advance in force. Really the threat of being strafed is sufficient to force UK to conquer karelia with minimal forces.
    My idea is to have panzers for deadzoning Karelia, Belorussia and Ukraina.

    I agree with you that air force are needed for trading and for threatening Allied ships. I try to buy aircrafts in 2nd and 3rd turns, using addictional IPC from Africa if I can. So my objective is to have 7-8 fighters with Germany by turn 4-5. Your idea of the 2nd bmb (end eventually the 3rd) is interesting. As I said in a game we had Axis with 4 bombers and it was wery interesting.

    Maybe this is usufeul in my play group where Allies in the first 2-3 rounds are involved in building up giving some addictional time to Germany.



  • @Romulus:

    You have to attack China and buy 3 transports on J1. If Russia attack Manchuria then use transport and BB to detroy them, it is always a good thing the elimination of the russian infantries. And if UK attack FIC uses the infantries remaining in China to counterattack.

    You mean to attack China with the 7 infantry available?  Or 6 and leave 1 in FIC?



  • Usually I leave 1 inf in Manchuria, if Russia stack Buryatia, and attack China with 6 inf and 2 fig. IN NCM move two inf in FIC.

    If Russia retreat to Yakut, I attack china with 6inf and 2 fig and leave 1 inf in FIC, landing there 1 inf and 1 tank and 2 fig.


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