LOL! Jennifer, I think I see the source of at least part of the problem. All of the references you’ve made are to the box rules. What we’re discussing here (and have been since the beginning) is LHTR 2.0.
Unfortunately, you’re still incorrect. Since we’ve been on different “pages” up to now, I’ll respond to your points using the box rules.
@Cmdr:
Bear in mind, your citation MUST negate the FACT that all fighters are considered to be airborne during the Combat Phase of EVERY nation, per the rules.
Exactly where is this rule? I can’t locate it.
@Cmdr:
Page 13, however, does talk about Aircraft Carriers, in the combat move portion of the game.
Aircraft carriers (note that it is PLURAL) can move during this phase, but first they must “launch” their fighters.
This doesn’t prove anything. Carriers can launch fighters of their own power on their own turn. From page 30:
Fighters from friendly powers can take off and land from your carriers, but only during that power’s turn.
and
Fighters belonging to friendly powers on attacking carriers are always treated as cargo, as it is not their turn.
These rules clearly indicate that during any given power’s turn, “guest” fighters on its carriers are cargo, and may not leave the carrier.
@Cmdr:
Same page:
The fighters can then make a combat move from the carrier’s SEA ZONE.
Notice that it says the fighters move from the SEA ZONE, not from the carrier. This is a very deliberate distinction. That means your fighters are located in the sea zone, NOT the carrier, the carrier is present only to open the possibility for putting fighters in that sea zone at the end of your non-combat turn.
Yes, it is a very deliberate distinction, just not for the same reason as your argument. What this means is that for movement purposes the fighter doesn’t count the sea zone the carrier is in, because the fighter is also in that sea zone. The section is, after all, talking about combat movement.
@Cmdr:
This is illustrated on Page 18
You must have a carrier move for a fighter that would end its combat move in a sea zone. You cannot deliberately move a fighter into a sea zone that is out of the range of your aircraft carrier.
It references the SEA ZONE. It does not care WHOSE carrier it is, only that a carrier is present in the sea zone.
Of course it references the sea zone here. The section is talking about moving a carrier to pick up a fighter that has moved into a sea zone without a carrier during combat movement. The fighter moved to a sea zone with no carrier, now a carrier must move to the sea zone to allow the fighter to land. As far as whose carrier it is, since only your units can attack on your turn, the fighter must belong to the acting power, and since only your units can move on your turn, the carrier must also belong to the acting power. These rules are both quoted in your next point. I don’t see how this proves your argument.
@Cmdr:
Page 20 continues:
A multi-national force cannot attack the same space together. Each attacking power moves and fires its own units on its own turn. A FIGHTER MAY LAUNCH FROM AN AIRCRAFT CARRIER OWNED BYT A FRIENDLY POWER, BUT THE CARRIER MAY NOT MOVE UNTIL ITS CONTROLLER’S TURN.
The Fighters are not tied to the carriers, the fighters may move or the carriers can drag them along for the ride. Or the carriers may leave the fighters behind and leave without them (provided the sea zone is still a valid landing zone for the fighters in question.)
This is an interesting point, but we need to refer back to page 30:
Fighters from friendly powers can take off and land from your carriers, but only during that power’s turn.
and
Fighters belonging to friendly powers on attacking carriers are always treated as cargo, as it is not their turn.
Your own fighters and/or carriers may move, but these rules indicate that a carrier may not move and leave a foreign fighter behind, since that would require launching it, which is not allowed. If your carrier with a foreign fighter moves, that fighter remains on the carrier as cargo.
@Cmdr:
Page 21 (Non-Combat moves start here, not combat.)
Air units can land in any friendly territories. They cannot end their move in hostile territories or in any territories you captured this turn. Fighters can land in any SEA ZONE that has a friendly carrier, even those that moved during this phase (but not in the middle of the carrier’s move.)
Seems pretty clear, the fighters are in the sea zone, not the carrier deck. The carriers just grant the fighters the ability to land in the sea zone, which allows them to defend the fleet on any counter attacks.
The actual quote is “Fighters can land on any friendly carrier”. I don’t see the sea zone reference in my rule book.
@Cmdr:
Same page:
Aircraft carriers can move to SEA ZONES that contain friendly fighters to allow landing.
Again, they are emphasizing that the fighters are landing in the sea zone, not the specific carrier you happen to have there.
This is similar to your earlier point. Of course the carrier must move to the sea zone. This doesn’t mean that the fighter doesn’t land on the specific carrier.
@Cmdr:
Now I agree, the fighters not moving from ship to ship may be a darn fine HOUSE RULE for face to face games or games played on programs that do not auto-stack your units for you. However, it is a house rule, not a codified rule.
This is a fallacy a lot of on-line gamers fall into. The computer game was made from the boardgame, not vice versa. When the computer version doesn’t agree with the boardgame rules, there’s a word for it: BUG. Either that, or it was impossible or impractical to make the computer-based version behave in the same way as the boardgame. In the latter case, the computer gamer is using a house rule.