• In the last few years The Netherlands, Italy, Denmark, France and Portugal have each elected conservative leaders.
    Today, Sweden, a country with 11% of its 9,000,000 population born outside the country, is looking at a tight election. The Social Democrats have ruled for all but about a decade of the last 70 years. However, the Liberals have put forth a new plan. The proposal requires immigrants applying for citizenship to pass a Swedish language test. Mr. Leijonborg, spokesman for the Liberals, says the plan is not anti-immigrant, but will integrate foreigners into Swedish life more effectively.

    2]"(China’s) Communism is not love. (China’s) Communism is a hammer
    which we use to crush the enemy." - Mao Zedong
    –---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sweden has the highest taxes of any country in Europe. - Xi


  • Let’s hope not )


  • In the last few years The Netherlands, Italy, Denmark, France and Portugal have each elected conservative leaders.
    Today, Sweden, a country with 11% of its 9,000,000 population born outside the country, is looking at a tight election. The Social Democrats have ruled for all but about a decade of the last 70 years. However, the Liberals have put forth a new plan. The proposal requires immigrants applying for citizenship to pass a Swedish language test. Mr. Leijonborg, spokesman for the Liberals, says the plan is not anti-immigrant, but will integrate foreigners into Swedish life more effectively.

    wow…wow… First, there’s is ALWAYS a balance, sometime right-wing party are very strong, sometime left-wing party are stronger… and when there is fear, right-wing party get elected. Second; it’s a question of standpoint, Chirac is rightish in france, but if you compare him with the Democrat and the Republican, you will find he is way more leftish than these 2 party…

    Sure, fron a European point of vue, we are in a very sad rightish period… even Blair is acting like he was conservative. I only wish Germans will not elect Stoiber, i don’t want germany to be a big bavaria… But maybe Stoiber will get crushed by the “Preiss” after all.

    Sweden has the highest taxes of any country in Europe. - Xi

    Yeaaa… and sweden is one of the most, and maybe the most, modern country. Low violence, lots of woman in politic, good education/medical system, they do a lot to reduce pollution, they are good in technology and their university are prestigious, their leftish economy is working very well, very good for a little country.

    Only their obsolete monarchy make the country sound like an archaic state.


  • @FinsterniS:

    In the last few years The Netherlands, Italy, Denmark, France and Portugal have each elected conservative leaders.
    Today, Sweden, a country with 11% of its 9,000,000 population born outside the country, is looking at a tight election. The Social Democrats have ruled for all but about a decade of the last 70 years. However, the Liberals have put forth a new plan. The proposal requires immigrants applying for citizenship to pass a Swedish language test. Mr. Leijonborg, spokesman for the Liberals, says the plan is not anti-immigrant, but will integrate foreigners into Swedish life more effectively.

    wow…wow… First, there’s is ALWAYS a balance, sometime right-wing party are very strong, sometime left-wing party are stronger… and when there is fear, right-wing party get elected. Second; it’s a question of standpoint, Chirac is rightish in france, but if you compare him with the Democrat and the Republican, you will find he is way more leftish than these 2 party…

    Sure, fron a European point of vue, we are in a very sad rightish period… even Blair is acting like he was conservative. I only wish Germans will not elect Stoiber, i don’t want germany to be a big bavaria… But maybe Stoiber will get crushed by the “Preiss” after all.

    Sweden has the highest taxes of any country in Europe. - Xi

    Yeaaa… and sweden is one of the most, and maybe the most, modern country. Low violence, lots of woman in politic, good education/medical system, they do a lot to reduce pollution, they are good in technology and their university are prestigious, their leftish economy is working very well, very good for a little country.

    Only their obsolete monarchy make the country sound like an archaic state.

    although i believe you and i share a similar disdain for the Monarchy, there are a few “civilized” modern countries with a progressive social conscience and a humming economy (Sweden, GB, and even Canada has not relinquished entirely its links to that “archaic” institution. Could there not be something to this? A balance to the democracy the governs these countries? Naturally America, home of the elected monarchs would soundingly cry “absolutely not”, however i would not be so fast to rule this out yet.


  • Nah! This is Sweden’s panphobia, an expanded version of France’s American Englishphobia. 🙂

    @F_S:

    First, there’s is ALWAYS a balance, sometime right-wing party are very strong, sometime left-wing party are stronger…

    Okay, state the obvious, if you must.
    @F_S:

    and when there is fear, right-wing party get elected.

    Now there’s an itllr UNBIASED perspective. :roll:

    Fear abounds in Liberalville. Make them afraid, offer a government solution, and, voila, we got their votes(I know that’s how it works here. My uncle was a Democratic [read LIBERAL] party organizer for 25 years.)
    I’m afraid I can’t afford to pay for my _____ (fill in the blank, I’m sure you can many times over).
    Even worse . . .
    I’m afraid I can’t afford to pay for my parent’s _____ (fill in the blank, I’m sure you can many times over).
    Even worster 🙂 . . .
    I’m afraid I can’t afford to pay for my children’s _____ (fill in the blank, I’m sure you can many times over).
    What are some of the limits your government has ($ and #s)on some its services?

    @F_S:

    Second; it’s a question of standpoint, Chirac is rightish in france, but if you compare him with the Democrat and the Republican, you will find he is way more leftish than these 2 party…

    Jawohl, 🙂 ,I will agree with you there. The Swedish Liberal Party is probably a smidgeon more conservative than our Democrat Party.
    Maybe we should create a political scale(from 100 points left of zero[the center]to 100 points right of center, no -/+, no red[communist] nor blue). Sorry for all the ()[]! The problem would then arise that someone goes 113 points left/right and we have to change the scale. We’ll be ready for them. 😉
    @F_S:

    . . . fron a European point of vue, we are in a very sad rightish period…

    Speaking for al right (in the correct sense) thinking liberal Europeans, of course. Sounds like the Thought Polizei have things under control(1984) 😉
    @F_S:

    . . . even Blair is acting like he was conservative.

    He seems to be a great Clintonclone(Clinton staff helped Blair run his campaign). He probably goes with the polls or whichever way the plumbing flows 😄
    @F_S:

    I only wish Germans will not elect Stoiber, i don’t want germany to be a big bavaria… But maybe Stoiber will get crushed by the “Preiss” after all.

    What are some of the the major issues and where does he stand? - Xi
    –------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    “Vivere est cogitare.”(To think is to live) - Marcus Tullius Cicero


  • 2]"(China’s) Communism is not love. (China’s) Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy." - Mao Zedong

    Tsk…Tsk… this coming from the person who swore never to double quote.

    Ha, Europe becoming more conservative? Give me a break.

    In the last few years The Netherlands, Italy, Denmark, France and Portugal have each elected conservative leaders.

    These countries do not make up to close all of Europe.

    BTW, Xi, you’re quoting is quite bad, it was so hard to read your previous post (trying to determine who said what).


  • although i believe you and i share a similar disdain for the Monarchy, there are a few “civilized” modern countries with a progressive social conscience and a humming economy (Sweden, GB, and even Canada has not relinquished entirely its links to that “archaic” institution. Could there not be something to this? A balance to the democracy the governs these countries? Naturally America, home of the elected monarchs would soundingly cry “absolutely not”, however i would not be so fast to rule this out yet.

    Ok, i think i was’nt very clear. I think Monarchy is archaic and useless in most country, it does’nt project a very modern image. This does not mean, because a country is still working with a monarchy, that the country is archaic, just that part of the institution. Look at Sweden and GB, the monarchy is without real power… So why keeping it ?

    about fear and politic…

    Woman are more insecure, more prudent, and they vote more for rightish party, not because they are idiots, obviously. When there’s social problem, people want a “solid” party with simplist solution, they elect the right. Right-wing party are focusing on security, big army, hard punishment, just read their speech, fear is their allies. Look these time, fear is in the air, anyway more than in the normal, and conservative idea are taking lots of space. When germany was in pain after WWI, they choose to listen to rightish party, they (we) were afraid.

    about Stoiber and Shroeder…

    Stoiber is the “head” of a coalition of 2 conservative party. He want to bring conservative idea of bavaria on all germany. Also he does not seem to care a lot about europe, i find that is dangerous for germany, as he could slow down europe progress. He is also very hard to the Turk, once he tried to deport a german delinquant in turk, the delinquant was a turk, born in germany, as his parent were there for more than 30 years. About economy, it seem evident that his idea would not help a lots East Germany, he propose simple solution to a very complex problem in germany; unemployement. He is not very popular in the north.

    Shroeder is a social democrat, a competent man with good idea. He care about europe. But he make a mistake; he said he would reduce unemployement, he did, but not as much as he promise. Now it seem the idea of his party about unemployement are starting to work, but maybe too late as the election is on septembre 22.


  • Ok, i think i was’nt very clear. I think Monarchy is archaic and useless in most country, it does’nt project a very modern image. This does not mean, because a country is still working with a monarchy, that the country is archaic, just that part of the institution. Look at Sweden and GB, the monarchy is without real power… So why keeping it ?

    Ha, Monarchies are born in the life of luxury. They often forget the needs and hardships of the people having never suffered themselves.

    Woman are more insecure, more prudent, and they vote more for rightish party, not because they are idiots, obviously. When there’s social problem, people want a “solid” party with simplist solution, they elect the right. Right-wing party are focusing on security, big army, hard punishment, just read their speech, fear is their allies. Look these time, fear is in the air, anyway more than in the normal, and conservative idea are taking lots of space. When germany was in pain after WWI, they choose to listen to rightish party, they (we) were afraid.

    I will say that you are making a awfully board generalization. Over the last two decades, election polling has consistently shown that women are less likely than men to support the Republican Party and its candidates, more often opting for the more liberal Democratic Party. Also the liberal Democratics are just as responsible for simplistic solutions and even tend to resort to scare tactics and use of malice. Talk to Xi, he knows all about the liberal slander aimed against the Conservatives to instill fear into the voters and try to get the people to vote for them.


  • @TG:

    Ok, i think i was’nt very clear. I think Monarchy is archaic and useless in most country, it does’nt project a very modern image. This does not mean, because a country is still working with a monarchy, that the country is archaic, just that part of the institution. Look at Sweden and GB, the monarchy is without real power… So why keeping it ?

    Ha, Monarchies are born in the life of luxury. They often forget the needs and hardships of the people having never suffered themselves.

    no no Finsternis (first quote) i understood you perfectly (i.e. you were being clear, and i agree with you).
    i was quasi-facitiously considering that there were aspects to a monarchy that we do not appreciate that may help a country acheive both economic and social progressiveness unseen in countries without both monarchical and parliamentary democracies - i.e. America, China, Russia, France, Germany . . . .
    (still being quasi-facetious, so relax 😄 )

    And Moses - i’m glad you use the term “often” for many Monarchs are/were much beloved by their people, and consider their people as they would their own children - with love, and doing all they can in their position to help their people.
    peoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeoplepeople


  • no no Finsternis (first quote) i understood you perfectly (i.e. you were being clear, and i agree with you).
    i was quasi-facitiously considering that there were aspects to a monarchy that we do not appreciate that may help a country acheive both economic and social progressiveness unseen in countries without both monarchical and parliamentary democracies - i.e. America, China, Russia, France, Germany . . . .
    (still being quasi-facetious, so relax )

    I wasn’t trying to accuse anybody so relax. 😉 I just wanted to share my opinion in the context of the situation. I doubt anybody would disagree with what you had to say.

    And Moses - i’m glad you use the term “often” for many Monarchs are/were much beloved by their people, and consider their people as they would their own children - with love, and doing all they can in their position to help their people.

    True. I have known some rulers to express genuine care for the people. However, it is often the hand of power that corrupts them. I will say that a good monarchy would be a nice little bonus - but a bad one, it would be more of a nightmare on Earth. The effects are that much dire.


  • I will say that you are making a awfully board generalization.

    We call that “induction”, i already explain that…

    Over the last two decades, election polling has consistently shown that women are less likely than men to support the Republican Party and its candidates, more often opting for the more liberal Democratic Party.

    I’ve do some superficial research… and it seem that you are “half” right. In reality, woman were more supporting the Republican, but now they slighly support more the democrats… Still, this seem to be an exeption to the rule… In France women tend to vote more to the right, 28% for Chirac again 20% for men. You should read “Mobilising the women’s vote: the gender-generation gap in voting behaviour” by Norris.

    Also the liberal Democratics are just as responsible for simplistic solutions and even tend to resort to scare tactics and use of malice.

    I’ve followed a little the last election… well, this was a very “individual” battle, and Gore and Bush are very similar, they both support capital punishment, they both want a bigger army… only very superficial difference like the size of the governement. I really don’t know if they use simplist solution, but this is often the case of conservative party, this is maybe only true in europe, as i don,t really see a big distinction with the republican and the democrat, and i know the Liberalist in canada are liars


  • I’ve do some superficial research… and it seem that you are “half” right. In reality, woman were more supporting the Republican, but now they slighly support more the democrats… Still, this seem to be an exeption to the rule… In France women tend to vote more to the right, 28% for Chirac again 20% for men. You should read “Mobilising the women’s vote: the gender-generation gap in voting behaviour” by Norris.

    The Republican has come under constant attacks as being a “sexist party.” It is a tall order to assume that “in reality, women were more supporting the Republican.” If there’s one long-term electoral trend worrying Republicans, it’s the widening gender gap in voting behavior. In the early postwar period, a majority of women favored Republican candidates, while men were more inclined toward Democrats. In recent decades, however, voting patterns have reversed sharply, with far more women supporting Democrats and men voting Republican. Since 1960 this course has been almost irreversible - quite a bit longer then you would suggest. As for the “slightly more,” the support of women was a big factor in Bill Clinton’s victories, and if women’s votes alone had been counted in 2000, Al Gore would have won by a landslide.

    I really don’t know if they use simplist solution, but this is often the case of conservative party, this is maybe only true in europe, as i don,t really see a big distinction with the republican and the democrat, and i know the Liberalist in canada are liars

    Pay close attention to the midterm elections. The Democrats will do their best to try and downplay the economy in order to gain more seats. They will try to scare seniors into thinking that somehow their savings will “vanish” and the Democrats are the only ones who stand against this and big buisness (my, aren’t we forgetting Clinton’s dealings with Big Buisness like Enron?) - quite pitiful really.


  • Fear abounds in Liberalville. Make them afraid, offer a government solution, and, voila, we got their votes(I know that’s how it works here. My uncle was a Democratic [read LIBERAL] party organizer for 25 years.)

    so: liberal = democratic = socialist = communist ?
    no wonder that the US are famous for their socialism-phobia.
    liberals in europe are the worst “no government, no tax etc” that are on the political market here.

    Speaking for al right (in the correct sense) thinking liberal Europeans, of course. Sounds like the Thought Polizei have things under control(1984)
    😉

    i only read the german translation, but does it say thought police or throught polizei in the original version?
    If it is the first, then Xi is a racist, as he uses german as a synonym for fascist/nazi/etc.

    @F_S:

    I only wish Germans will not elect Stoiber, i don’t want germany to be a big bavaria… But maybe Stoiber will get crushed by the “Preiss” after all.

    What are some of the the major issues and where does he stand? - Xi

    sighs lazy……


  • so: liberal = democratic = socialist = communist ?

    More like Liberal + Democratic + Socialist = Communist 😎


  • =====
    @T_6:

    @X:

    “(China’s) Communism is not love.
    (China’s) Communism is a hammer which we use to crush
    the enemy.” - Mao Zedong

    Tsk… this coming from the person who swore never to
    double quote.

    Please, take this as a clarification, not a “" "”.
    I don’t believe that I said I would never “” “”. I believe I
    said I would use a variety of quotes. However, if I said it
    as you say, please take this as a change in policy 🙂 .
    @F_k:

    @X:

    Fear abounds in Liberalville.

    so: liberal = democratic = socialist = communist ?
    no wonder that the US are famous for their
    socialism-phobia.liberals in europe are the worst
    “no government, no tax etc” that are on the political
    market here.

    Methinks thou recitith la alphabet cuando todo je said
    was “a = b.” :lol:
    I said (referring only to here in the USA)
    “liberal = democrat.” YOU overdid it.
    NO TAX, NO GOVERNMENT Liberals? That sounds like
    condors on a mountain top with fins and no eyes. I
    wouldn’t travel so far along the political scale! Soy
    (I am) less tax, less government. Our national
    government oversteps its’ constitutional boundaries
    using the “interstate commerce” clause to excess.
    @F_k:

    @Xi:

    Speaking for all right (in the
    correct sense) thinking liberal Europeans, of course.
    Sounds like the Thought Polizei have things under
    control(“1984”.) 😉

    i only read the german translation, but does it say
    thought police or throught polizei in the original version?
    If it is the first, then Xi is a racist, as he uses german
    as a synonym for fascist/nazi/etc.

    I did type POLIZEI(DEUTSCH.) I am of Iroquios, Irish,
    Polish, Japanese, Welsh, Scot and German parentage.
    I am not even a “human racist.” I am a “Deist racist.” 😄
    Americans borrow words from other languages all the time.
    Don’t take it as an insult, por favor 🙂 . Sometimes it’s nice
    to break out of my lil box that people keep trying to lock
    me in! Nevertheless, this is the third time, on this website,
    that I have been called RACIST. Dos de those have been
    by Europeans. I begin to think you do not understand us,
    occassionally, because you do not understand American
    humor. I find that odd because I have had the opportunity
    to speak with Estonian, Spanish, Japanese, South African,
    Sierra Leonan, Australian, Canadian 😉 , Syrian, Saudi,
    and Chinese people(just to name a few cultures) who have
    understood American humor with a full or rudimentary
    (no pun intended) grasp of English.
    This genre of arguments will indubitably reproduce itself.

    Koown, hu’ah. wah kahteen yaht’a aknenoni,
    nhani u ake’nikoiyustahkwa’! - Xi
    Peace, brother. May the gods allow your three wives to keep
    you warm, wealthy, and very happy(woo-woo!) 😎 - Xi


  • @Xi:

    I did type POLIZEI(DEUTSCH.) I am of Iroquios, Irish,
    Polish, Japanese, Welsh, Scot and German parentage.
    …Nevertheless, this is the third time, on this website,
    that I have been called RACIST. Dos de those have been
    by Europeans. I begin to think you do not understand us,
    occassionally, because you do not understand American
    humor. I find that odd because I have had the opportunity
    to speak with Estonian, Spanish, … who have
    understood American humor with a full or rudimentary
    (no pun intended) grasp of English.

    (1) Spain and Estonia are part of europe.
    (2) i apologize for the way i reacted, but: Using german words in combination with fascist/nazi-like institutions … if you have the slightest knowledge of history, you should know what kind of feelings and reactions you provoke with that.
    Don’t tell me you didn’t do it on purpose. If you did, then you are very poor in your social/communicative skills, or you just didn’t think far enough of what implications that way to say it could have: … i hope for the last… unless you have access to weapons of mass destruction 🙂


  • I most certainly did do it on purpose.
    If I have to deal with the skeletons in my closet . . .
    . . . though I’ll endeavor to not
    decapitate you on my backswing.

    “He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself
    does not become a monster…when you gaze long into the abyss
    the abyss also gazes into you…” - Friendrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

    I’m wrestling dragons and I need a little help. - Xi


  • POLIZEI(DEUTSCH.)

    Well at least he didn’t say Gestapo :roll:


  • What was the East German equivalent of the KGB? 😉

    JUST KIDDING! JUST KIDDING! I can hear the reponse
    before I post it.

    :evil: Who? Me?

    “Eat right and exercise regularly. Die anyway” - Anonymous


  • @Xi:

    What was the East German equivalent of the KGB? 😉

    JUST KIDDING! JUST KIDDING! I can hear the reponse
    before I post it.

    Just for the record, for those not knowing: the east german secret police was called:
    Stasi
    or offical: MfS


  • o yea u stasi i saw a uniform for them in some militaria magazine 😉


  • BEHAVE, G! :x - Xi

    “Freedom of the press belongs to those who own one.” - Anonymous

    Except sometimes on night shift when the guard is nappin’
    or the electronic surveillence is down! 😄


  • @FinsterniS:

    about fear and politic…

    When germany was in pain after WWI, they choose to listen to rightish party, they (we) were afraid.

    If I remember correctly people were listening to the left (communists) just as much as the right (Nazi’s) in the late 20’s and early 30’s. Street battles were common between the two groups as well. In the 32 electon the left gained the most votes, not the right. In the Great depresson here in the US, it was the left, and not the right, which gained its most strength from the hardtimes people lived in. By 1934, many felt the country was on the verge of a Communist upriasing. Liberals play on fear just as much, “without us (liberals) will you get food, were will you get work were will you live? Its the right who wants to take those things away from you.” Fear is the weapon of extremists regardless of what side they are on and to say only one side has a monopoly on it is to show a general ignorence of the facts of history.


  • In the Great depresson here in the US, it was the left, and not the right, which gained its most strength from the hardtimes people lived in.

    Not very surprising, intervention of the state was (should have been ?) inevitable.

    Also i never, NEVER said the right has the monopoly of fear, this is just a tendance. About Leftish using fear, i am sure they do, like every single political ideology. But conservative ideas are closer to the feeling of fear, fear of change, need of security, et cetera. And as we are on a very rightish world, conservative are often rigth-wing…

    This is a generalisation, a global vision, i am sure you can understand that, as you and i can understand the limitation of such generalisation.


  • Nah, I would say (at least from my perspective), the world is more left than right.

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