AARHE: Lite


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    This is the first post in the discussion regarding a light version of AARHE. Here are the topics that can be considered:

    I think each of us picks a couple of these each day to remove, sort of like that game called musical chairs. Its easier to know what you don’t like than pick among favorites.

    In bold denotes keepers and saved from elimination. Empty spots are eliminated ideas for AARHE lite

    Phase 1: Collect Income
    Economic Attacks

    Convoy Sea Zone
    Lend-Lease

    Phase 2: Purchase Units and Developments
    Variable Industrial Complex Costs
    Variable Infantry Costs
    Purchase Developments
    Scorched Earth

    Phase 3: Combat Move
    Air Movement
    Airborne Drop
    Naval Movement
    Naval Transport
    Naval Occupation
    Submarine Movement
    Air Missions
    Combat Reinforcement
    Air Reinforcement: Defensive Air Support Mission (DAS)
    Land Reinforcement

    Canals and Waterways
    Terrain
    Stalinist Xenophobia
    Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis Co-operation

    Phase 4: Conduct Combat
    Land Combat: Air Units
    Air Superiority
    Jet Superiority
    Anti-Air
    Land Combat: Retreat Decision
    Defender retreat
    Attacker retreat

    Land Combat: Sequence
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation

    Naval Combat: Air units
    Jet Supremacy
    Anti-Air
    Naval Combat: Retreat Decision
    Defender Retreat
    Attacker Retreat
    Submarine Submerge
    Break off
    Naval Combat: Sequence
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
    Naval Combat: Battleships
    Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare
    Wolf pack
    Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
    Naval Combat: Amphibious Assault
    Air Missions
    Counter-Air Mission (CA)
    Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR)
    Ground Interdiction Mission (GI)
    Economic attacks

    Phase 5: Non-combat Move
    Air Movement
    Air Transport
    Non-combat Reinforcement
    Strategic Redeployment (optional)
    Other Restrictions

    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units
    Industrial Complex Mobilization
    Victory City Mobilization ( remove)
    Build schedule

    Phase 7: Develop Weapons

    Technology Deployment



  • Yeah individual votes can do either (pick keep or pick remove).

    Probably can’t do musical chairs. We’ll just have arguments when I remove something you really want to keep.
    Need to evaluate collective preference rather then individually have a stab at it.
    This is done with a preference matrix.

    You merely voted 11 removes.
    We need a way to see your preference.

    Do it in groups (remove these 5, next remove these 5…)
    Also you could do ordering (1,2,3,4,5…)


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Too hard. Just pick what you hate and add remove.

    Each day more will leave and we get a clearer picture.

    Prioritize will come latter



  • As I said its up to you to vote keeps or removes.
    For my its easier to find what I like the most.

    The list has 73 lines but excluding upper level headings, its really just 60 rules.
    We aim for lite to be 5 pages, thats about 20 rules.
    Very much in the level of complexity as AARe.

    Hence I just ask myself what I think add realism to gameplay yet is simple.
    And then the rules that are complex or simple but unimportant I don’t mind seeing them go.
    Thats the my philosphy.

    I guess you don’t HAVE to give preference if you don’t want.
    The preference matrix will deal with it for you, beautifully.

    Yeah you can add removes over time. In a few days we’ll evaluate.
    I’ll post my preference some time.



  • (1) top 5 to keep
    (2) next 5 to keep
    (3) next 5 to keep

    Phase 1: Collect Income
    Economic Attacks 1
    Production Interruption
    Logistics
    Spending or Saving IPC
    Convoy Sea Zone
    Lend-Lease 3

    Phase 2: Purchase Units and Developments
    Variable Industrial Complex Costs
    Variable Infantry Costs
    Purchase Developments
    Scorched Earth 3

    Phase 3: Combat Move
    Air Movement 1
    Airborne Drop
    Naval Movement
    Naval Transport
    Naval Occupation
    Submarine Movement
    Air Missions
    Combat Reinforcement
    Air Reinforcement: Defensive Air Support Mission (DAS)
    Land Reinforcement
    Strait Interdiction
    Canals and Waterways
    Terrain 3
    Stalinist Xenophobia 2
    Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis Co-operation

    Phase 4: Conduct Combat
    Land Combat: Air Units
    Air Superiority
    Jet Superiority
    Anti-Air 1
    Land Combat: Retreat Decision
    Defender retreat 2
    Attacker retreat
    Capture of defender’s retreating army
    Land Combat: Sequence
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation 1
    Land Combat: Amphibious Assault Sequence, 1st cycle 3
    Naval Combat: Air units
    Jet Supremacy
    Anti-Air
    Naval Combat: Retreat Decision
    Defender Retreat
    Attacker Retreat
    Submarine Submerge 2
    Break off
    Naval Combat: Sequence
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation 1
    Naval Combat: Battleships
    Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare
    Wolf pack
    Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)
    Naval Combat: Amphibious Assault
    Air Missions
    Counter-Air Mission (CA)
    Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR) 2
    Ground Interdiction Mission (GI)
    Economic attacks

    Phase 5: Non-combat Move
    Air Movement
    Air Transport
    Non-combat Reinforcement
    Strategic Redeployment (optional)
    Other Restrictions

    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units
    Industrial Complex Mobilization 3
    Victory City Mobilization 1
    Build schedule

    Phase 7: DevelopWeapons
    Research Progress
    Technology Deployment

    tekkyy.xls


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    (1) top 5 to keep
    (2) next 5 to keep
    (3) next 5 to keep

    Phase 1: Collect Income       
    Economic Attacks        1
    Production Interruption  2     
    Logistics    3   
    Spending or Saving IPC  3     
    Convoy Sea Zone    1   
    Lend-Lease        3

    Phase 2: Purchase Units and Developments       
    Variable Industrial Complex Costs    3   
    Variable Infantry Costs        3
    Purchase Developments    2   
    Scorched Earth        3

    Phase 3: Combat Move       
    Air Movement        1
    Airborne Drop        1
    Naval Movement      1 
    Naval Transport      1 
    Naval Occupation    1   
    Submarine Movement  1     
    Air Missions        1
    Combat Reinforcement  1     
    Air Reinforcement: Defensive Air Support Mission (DAS)      1 
    Land Reinforcement        2
    Strait Interdiction        2
    Canals and Waterways    3   
    Terrain        3
    Stalinist Xenophobia        2
    Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis Co-operation      1

    Phase 4: Conduct Combat       
    Land Combat: Air Units    1   
    Air Superiority      1 
    Jet Superiority      1 
    Anti-Air        1
    Land Combat: Retreat Decision  1     
    Defender retreat        2
    Attacker retreat        1
    Capture of defender’s retreating army  3     
    Land Combat: Sequence        2
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation        1
    Land Combat: Amphibious Assault Sequence, 1st cycle        3
    Naval Combat: Air units      1 
    Jet Supremacy        1
    Anti-Air        1
    Naval Combat: Retreat Decision    2   
    Defender Retreat        1
    Attacker Retreat      1 
    Submarine Submerge        2
    Break off        1
    Naval Combat: Sequence    1   
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation        1
    Naval Combat: Battleships        2
    Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare    1   
    Wolf pack        1
    Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)    1   
    Naval Combat: Amphibious Assault        2
    Air Missions       
    Counter-Air Mission (CA)        1
    Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR)        2
    Ground Interdiction Mission (GI)  2     
    Economic attacks        1

    Phase 5: Non-combat Move       
    Air Movement        1
    Air Transport        1
    Non-combat Reinforcement    1   
    Strategic Redeployment (optional)      1 
    Other Restrictions        3

    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units       
    Industrial Complex Mobilization        3
    Victory City Mobilization        1
    Build schedule        3

    Phase 7: DevelopWeapons       
    Research Progress        2
    Technology Deployment  2



  • you’ve selected a huge number of rules you want to keep (1’s), not directly useful  😛

    but, you’ve selected 13 rules you want to remove (3’s), thats useful  🙂
    using that we compare with the 15 rules I want to keep

    items that overlap are conflicts:

    Lend-Lease
    Scorched Earth
    Terrain
    Land Combat
    Industrial Complex Mobilization

    I resolve these, by agreeing with you. No comments needed:
    Terrain: I guess its not the most important of things. Hence I had it as low prority in my 15 anyway. So I remove as you wish.
    Land Combat: Amphibious Assault Sequence, 1st cycle: Its important to have amphibious assault with mostly infantry. But its complex. So I remove as you wish.

    These conflicts remain. Comments required:
    Lend-Lease: One line and no accounting needed. So why not? It is important as US/UK can’t enter Russian territories.
    Scorched Earth: One line and no accounting needed. So why not? “Sorched earth” man.
    Industrial Complex Mobilization: Its not simple in that it requires adding up IPC value of the units you are deploying. But you don’t really want Battleships to pop out of anywhere but major industrial centres. I am 50-50 on this. What do you think?

    items that do not overlap are consensus between us:
    (so we have a first draft)

    Phase 1: Collect Income
    Economic Attacks
    Phase 3: Combat Move
    Air Movement
    Stalinist Xenophobia
    Phase 4: Conduct Combat
    Anti-Air
    Defender retreat
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation
    Submarine Submerge
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
    Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR)
    Phase 5: Non-combat Move
    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units
    Victory City Mobilization

    After this I’ll evaluate the opposite aspect.
    But one step at a time. For now, I wait for the requested comments above.



  • I think terrain and Lend/Lease are the most important issues and we cant have a game without it

    My vote:

    Terrain 1

    Leand/Lease 1



  • regarding terrain as most important issues
    you like the defender bonus for mountainous/snowy, or the stacking limit for small, or both?

    by the way currently I am trying to have AARHE:Lite as a subset rather than a modification of AARHE
    of course, when I put Land Combat: Hit Allocation in the draft list, I mean that only relevant portions of the rule will be copied over to Lite



  • Yes I like a defender bonus for mountain/snowy terrain.

    Because up in the Northern Front, the attacker would lose 40 % of his force each time he attacked, because of the diffucult terrain and the cold. This goes for Russia attacking Finland in 1940, Germans attacking Murmansk in 1941 and Russians attacking North Norway in 1944. Just read some books. The cold is a killer. During winter 50 % of the casualties come from frostbite and sickness due to cold. Mountain terrain is actually a fortress, but in this game Norway is tradet back and forth all the time, and that would be impossible in real world. Norway’s mountains is nothing like Polands plains.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    yes yes we know this. its already part of it since day one.



  • IL I am combined our preferences and noted some conflicts
    waiting for comments here

    @tekkyy:

    These conflicts remain. Comments required:


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Phase 1: Collect Income–-- how can this be eliminated?

    Economic Attacks— each german naval outside baltic takes 1 ipc off UK/lend lease and each USA/UK sub in pacific takes one ipc from japan… how hard is this to have in LIght?

    Phase 3: Combat Move---- yea lets get rid of combat movement. we dont need to move units anymore…
    Air Movement— sure planes no longer fly. great
    Stalinist Xenophobia---- no allies in USSR. whats hard about that?
    Phase 4: Conduct Combat— ok no more combat who needs it.
    Anti-Air---- roll 1, then roll 1 again 1=plane dies, 2-3 plane flys back. easy.
    Defender retreat----keep it.
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation…tanks go against tanks, like for like. basic AARHE
    Submarine Submerge----- yes of course
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation----- dump everything except 1) planes hits cant go against subs if another ship is availible, and 2) transports are not soaks

    The rest of this must also be included.
    Strategic Bombing Raid (SBR)
    Phase 5: Non-combat Move
    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units
    Victory City Mobilization

    JUst post the results and from there we cut and edit out. This system of decision is hopeless. This is more like making a cake and deciding how to change the recipe without actually baking the new recipe. Its gotta be trial and error. You cant design like a computer flow chart. :mrgreen:



  • system is going fine
    you merely misread my post  😛
    this is so funny  😄

    Air Movement–- sure planes no longer fly. great
    Stalinist Xenophobia---- no allies in USSR. whats hard about that?

    that list is “consensus between us”
    (part of the 15 items I want AND not part of the 13 items you hate)
    we ARE having them, don’t worry

    I am asking for comments on conflicts
    (part of the 15 items I want AND part of the 13 items you hate)

    Lend-Lease
    Scorched Earth
    Terrain
    Land Combat: Amphibious Assault
    Industrial Complex Mobilization

    I’ve given in on terrain and amphibious assault.
    You just have to comment on the other 3.

    @tekkyy:

    These conflicts remain. Comments required:
    Lend-Lease: One line and no accounting needed. So why not? It is important as US/UK can’t enter Russian territories.
    Scorched Earth: One line and no accounting needed. So why not? “Sorched earth” man.
    Industrial Complex Mobilization: Its not simple in that it requires adding up IPC value of the units you are deploying. But you don’t really want Battleships to pop out of anywhere but major industrial centres. I am 50-50 on this. What do you think?

    Economic Attacks–- each german naval outside baltic takes 1 ipc off UK/lend lease and each USA/UK sub in pacific takes one ipc from japan… how hard is this to have in LIght?

    don’t get confused
    Economic Attack is about economic attacks having a round limit
    what you mentioned is an alternative Convoy Sea Zone rule you proposed about a month ago
    and I have already posted several unrealistic outcomes of that


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Lend-Lease: One line and no accounting needed. So why not? It is important as US/UK can’t enter Russian territories.
    ========= Lend lease is one line, Xenophobia is another line make it so.

    Scorched Earth: One line and no accounting needed. So why not? “Sorched earth” man.
    ===== you can destroy your factories by declaring it at the start of the combat round, if you still have forces left they are considered sufficient to have blown up the factory. Also, if you have any factories you may also “sell” them back and get 5 IPC to your treasury. This is done at the end of your turn only.

    Industrial Complex Mobilization: Its not simple in that it requires adding up IPC value of the units you are deploying. But you don’t really want Battleships to pop out of anywhere but major industrial centres. I am 50-50 on this. What do you think?

    ++++++Get rid of that 4x the IPC thing. Battleships and carriers can only be created in original sea zones adjacent to your original factories. In all cases you can build total quantity of units of any type in factories equal to the IPC value, and an additional amount of infantry also equal ( example: Territory value with factory can build 3 tanks and 3 infantry. Territory of 3 ipc and no factory can build only 3 infantry if its originally yours or 1/2 rounded down if occupied. Also, you cant build factories in occupied territories, BUT you can capture enemy factories ( also producing at 1/2 rounded down rate)



  • one more + karma from me



  • @Imperious:

    ========= Lend lease is one line, Xenophobia is another line make it so.

    ok cool

    ===== you can destroy your factories by declaring it at the start of the combat round, if you still have forces left they are considered sufficient to have blown up the factory. Also, if you have any factories you may also “sell” them back and get 5 IPC to your treasury. This is done at the end of your turn only.

    hehe thats pretty much the existing rule
    so lets use the existing?
    (existing rule is declare in purchase phase, destroy in mobilization phase…new rule is declare in combat phase, destroy at end of turn)

    though we shouldn’t be adding new things
    so lets not have the 5 IPC sell thing (thats more of IC relocation rather than sorched earth idea) nor requirement for force (this is your turn and your territory, after all)

    ++++++Get rid of that 4x the IPC thing. Battleships and carriers can only be created in original sea zones adjacent to your original factories. In all cases you can build total quantity of units of any type in factories equal to the IPC value, and an additional amount of infantry also equal ( example: Territory value with factory can build 3 tanks and 3 infantry. Territory of 3 ipc and no factory can build only 3 infantry if its originally yours or 1/2 rounded down if occupied. Also, you cant build factories in occupied territories, BUT you can capture enemy factories ( also producing at 1/2 rounded down rate)

    ok nice and simple Mobilization rule, we’ll use it to replace both IC and VC Mobilization rule
    I don’t think we need to disallow building IC at enemy territories though
    limit of 1/2 round down is fine I think

    Alright probably resolved all conflicts.

    Updated draft:

    Phase 1: Collect Income
    Economic Attacks
    Lend-Lease
    Phase 2: Purchase
    Sorched Earth
    Phase 3: Combat Move
    Air Movement
    Stalinist Xenophobia
    Phase 4: Conduct Combat
    Anti-Air
    Defender retreat
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation
    Submarine Submerge
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
    Strategic Bombing Raid
    Phase 5: Non-combat Move
    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units
    Mobilization Limit* (new)

    Time for next step. Working in the opposite direction.
    You gave 37 1’s. (items you want)
    Can you have a look the 37 again and give me 15?
    It shouldn’t be hard for you now that several items you wanted is now already on the draft.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Quote
    ===== you can destroy your factories by declaring it at the start of the combat round, if you still have forces left they are considered sufficient to have blown up the factory. Also, if you have any factories you may also “sell” them back and get 5 IPC to your treasury. This is done at the end of your turn only.
    hehe thats pretty much the existing rule
    so lets use the existing?
    (existing rule is declare in purchase phase, destroy in mobilization phase…new rule is declare in combat phase, destroy at end of turn)

    ok keep it then.

    though we shouldn’t be adding new things
    so lets not have the 5 IPC sell thing (thats more of IC relocation rather than sorched earth idea) nor requirement for force (this is your turn and your territory, after all)

    ok just thinking monopoly house sell back rule. nevermind.

    Quote
    ++++++Get rid of that 4x the IPC thing. Battleships and carriers can only be created in original sea zones adjacent to your original factories. In all cases you can build total quantity of units of any type in factories equal to the IPC value, and an additional amount of infantry also equal ( example: Territory value with factory can build 3 tanks and 3 infantry. Territory of 3 ipc and no factory can build only 3 infantry if its originally yours or 1/2 rounded down if occupied. Also, you cant build factories in occupied territories, BUT you can capture enemy factories ( also producing at 1/2 rounded down rate)

    ok nice and simple Mobilization rule, we’ll use it to replace both IC and VC Mobilization rule
    I don’t think we need to disallow building IC at enemy territories though
    limit of 1/2 round down is fine I think

    ok fine…

    Alright probably resolved all conflicts.

    Updated draft:

    Phase 1: Collect Income
    Economic Attacks
    Lend-Lease
    Phase 2: Purchase
    Sorched Earth
    Phase 3: Combat Move
    Air Movement
    Stalinist Xenophobia
    Phase 4: Conduct Combat
    Anti-Air
    Defender retreat
    Land Combat: Hit Allocation
    Submarine Submerge
    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
    Strategic Bombing Raid
    Phase 5: Non-combat Move
    Phase 6: Mobilize New Units
    Mobilization Limit* (new)

    Time for next step. Working in the opposite direction.
    You gave 37 1’s. (items you want)
    Can you have a look the 37 again and give me 15?
    It shouldn’t be hard for you now that several items you wanted is now already on the draft.

    ok fine.


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Economic Attacks        1

    Phase 3: Combat Move       
    Air Movement        1
    Airborne Drop        1
    Naval Movement      1 
    Naval Transport      1 
    Naval Occupation    1   
    Submarine Movement  1     
    Air Missions        1

    Air Reinforcement: Defensive Air Support Mission (DAS)      1

    Phase 4: Conduct Combat       
    Land Combat: Air Units    1 
    Air Superiority      1 
    Jet Superiority      1 
    Anti-Air        1
    Land Combat: Retreat Decision  1

    Attacker retreat        1

    Land Combat: Hit Allocation        1

    Naval Combat: Air units      1 
    Jet Supremacy        1
    Anti-Air        1

    Defender Retreat        1
    Attacker Retreat      1

    Naval Combat: Hit Allocation        1

    Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare    1   
    Wolf pack        1
    Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)    1

    Air Missions       
    Counter-Air Mission (CA)        1

    Economic attacks        1

    Phase 5: Non-combat Move       
    Air Movement        1
    Air Transport        1
    Non-combat Reinforcement    1 
    Strategic Redeployment (optional)      1

    I cant remove any more than these. they are too solid.



  • ok you’ve cut down to 31 items

    these 6 are actually already in:

    Phase 1: Economic Attacks        1
    Phase 3: Air Movement        1
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Anti-Air        1
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Defender Retreat        1
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Hit Allocation        1
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Hit Allocation        1

    so 25 left
    from those, these 15 are simple yet major in gameplay
    so we’ll have them:

    Phase 3: Airborne Drop        1
    Phase 3: Air Reinforcement: Defensive Air Support Mission (DAS)      1
    Phase 3: Naval Transport      1 
    Phase 3: Naval Occupation    1   
    Phase 4: Retreat Decision  1     
    Phase 4: Land Combat:  Attacker Retreat      1
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Air Units    1 
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Air Units: Air Superiority      1 
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Attacker retreat        1
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Air units      1 
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Air        1
    Phase 4: Wolf pack        1
    Phase 4: Economic attacks        1
    Phase 5: Air Transport        1
    Phase 5: Non-combat Reinforcement    1

    the remaining 10 I find are either complex or not major
    you shall defend them, or we simplify or remove them

    lets hope we keep it “lite” !
    we want a small subset, not AARHE with just a few rules removed

    Phase 3: Naval Movement      1 -> might be a bit complex for lite to roll dice even before combat
    Phase 3: Submarine Movement  1  -> might be a bit complex for lite to roll dice even before combat
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Air Units: Jet Superiority      1 -> not major, not core to gameplay
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Air Units: Jet Supremacy        1 -> not major, not core to gameplay
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare    1 -> AARHE hit allocation already sorts out a lot, we could remove this paragraph, which’ll merely removes first cycle bonus
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)    1 -> a bit complex for lite, we don’t want players to have to allocate air/naval units to ASW resulting in a complex combat seqeunce

    Phase 3: Air Missions        1
    Phase 4: Air Missions          1
    Phase 4: Counter-Air Mission (CA)        1
    -> I think “air missions” sounds complex for lite, could do with just the 2 most important moves, SBR and DAS, SBR rule is already in and that describes the AA and dogfight before SBR rolls

    Phase 5: Air Movement        1  -> lets just use OOB for NCM air movement? NCM air is not that major
    Phase 5: Strategic Redeployment (optional)      1  -> this is optional in the first place


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    WE need to keep these> I got rid of some. Add these in and latter we can simplify. Start work. No more of this methodology. Lets get something done.

    Phase 3: Submarine Movement  1  -> might be a bit complex for lite to roll dice even before combat
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Air Units: Jet Superiority      1 -> not major, not core to gameplay
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Air Units: Jet Supremacy        1 -> not major, not core to gameplay
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare    1 -> AARHE hit allocation already sorts out a lot, we could remove this paragraph, which’ll merely removes first cycle bonus
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW)    1 -> a bit complex for lite, we don’t want players to have to allocate air/naval units to ASW resulting in a complex combat seqeunce

    Phase 4: Counter-Air Mission (CA)        1
    -> I think “air missions” sounds complex for lite, could do with just the 2 most important moves, SBR and DAS, SBR rule is already in and that describes the AA and dogfight before SBR rolls

    ++++++++++++No CA and DAS are the most important historical models right along SBR. They dont take up too much space. leave them. If people cant figure these ideas out then they are stupid and don’t deserve anything we create.



  • Don’t worry. Its going great. We’ve progressed a lot.
    We add items to the list once we’ve reached concensus.

    Its better than you add some, I add some…round robin style.
    That will only produce a document neither of us agree with.

    Though it seems we have different feelings towards AARHE:Lite. I want it fairly light.
    AARHE is just 20 pages excluding NA. If AARHE:Lite takes 10 pages then whats the point?
    I am hoping Lite will be quite a bit under 10 pages.
    The list is fairly long already. Will see what happens.

    In already:

    Phase 1: Economic Attacks
    Phase 1: Lend-Lease
    Phase 2: Sorched Earth
    Phase 3: Air Movement
    Phase 3: Stalinist Xenophobia
    Phase 3: Airborne Drop
    Phase 3: Air Reinforcement: Defensive Air Support Mission (DAS)
    Phase 3: Naval Transport
    Phase 3: Naval Occupation
    Phase 4: Retreat Decision
    Phase 4: Defender retreat
    Phase 4: Attacker Retreat
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Air Units
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Air Units: Air Superiority
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Anti-Air
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Hit Allocation
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Air units
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Air
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Hit Allocation
    Phase 4: Wolf pack
    Phase 4: Submarine Submerge
    Phase 4: Economic attacks
    Phase 4: Strategic Bombing Raid
    Phase 5: Air Transport
    Phase 5: Non-combat Reinforcement
    Phase 6: Mobilization Limit* (new)
    Phase 7: Jet supermacy

    Comments on remaining conflicts:

    Phase 3: Submarine Movement: this rule merely lets submarines go through destroyers after rolling, rolling before combat might be a lot
    Phase 4: Land/Naval: Jet Supremacy: selecting targets before each roll might be a lot
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare + Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) how do you intend to simplify these two? I am worry about selecting targets before rolling and unit allocation…and I am sugguesting no ASW search, submarines undetected first cycle, detected other cycles (the same as normal AARHE except you roll search dice to determine for first cycle)
    Phase 4: Counter-Air Mission (CA) -> ok we’ll have it, this is going to add some length


  • 2017 '16 '15 Organizer '14 Customizer '13 '12 '11 '10

    Phase 3: Submarine Movement: this rule merely lets submarines go through destroyers after rolling, rolling before combat might be a lot.

    Its only a few lines of text. Sub stall is a HUGE issue and this puts an end to it. Subs are too good value for what they do. This takes away some of this and gives value to destroyers, which can indeed stop fleets but at a higher price.

    Phase 4: Land/Naval: Jet Supremacy: selecting targets before each roll might be a lot

    Its easy to use this rule. anything that is simple to learn and has AARHE ideas mus be used whenever possible.

    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare + Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) how do you intend to simplify these two? I am worry about selecting targets before rolling and unit allocation…and I am sugguesting no ASW search, submarines undetected first cycle, detected other cycles (the same as normal AARHE except you roll search dice to determine for first cycle)

    This is a major component from AARHE. It cant be removed. Just try and make it in simple jargon.

    Phase 4: Counter-Air Mission (CA) -> ok we’ll have it, this is going to add some length

    This is a must have or the battle of Britain does not happen. Ground interdiction should be kept also but made simple.

    ALSO, get rid of that “you lose 4 ipc” thingy from the normal AARHE rules. I have 2 people also telling me it makes no sence and try to argue that all they have to do is get a sub in the atlantic and Germany loses 4 ipc if they own the Azores.

    Convoy Sea Zone

    A sea zone part of a path* [see Spending or Saving IPC] is a convoy sea zone. Each hostile naval unit
    (except Transport) destroys 1 IPC. This is applied to IPC going via the path. Exception applies if it is an
    island sea zone, then each hostile naval unit (except Transport) destroys 4 IPC instead.

    This line must go away.  Japan owns like 10 island groups and USA buys 10 subs and takes 40 ipc off japan. Rubbish.



  • @Imperious:

    Phase 3: Submarine Movement: this rule merely lets submarines go through destroyers after rolling, rolling before combat might be a lot.

    Its only a few lines of text. Sub stall is a HUGE issue and this puts an end to it. Subs are too good value for what they do. This takes away some of this and gives value to destroyers, which can indeed stop fleets but at a higher price.

    oh, then its “Naval Movement” you want, not “Submarine Movement”

    Phase 4: Land/Naval: Jet Supremacy: selecting targets before each roll might be a lot

    Its easy to use this rule. anything that is simple to learn and has AARHE ideas mus be used whenever possible.

    yeah I’ve moved that item to the draft list already
    it’ll be a line when explaining the Jet tech

    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Submarine Warfare + Phase 4: Naval Combat: Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) how do you intend to simplify these two? I am worry about selecting targets before rolling and unit allocation…and I am sugguesting no ASW search, submarines undetected first cycle, detected other cycles (the same as normal AARHE except you roll search dice to determine for first cycle)

    This is a major component from AARHE. It cant be removed. Just try and make it in simple jargon.

    download the latest full AARHE (since we’ve simplified some aspects just recently) and give some ideas then
    its already written in the minimal way

    Phase 4: Counter-Air Mission (CA) -> ok we’ll have it, this is going to add some length

    This is a must have or the battle of Britain does not happen. Ground interdiction should be kept also but made simple.

    right… nowyou even want GI now

    almost everything in conduct combat phase you want in
    conduct combat is 7 pages (p.6 - p.13)
    we are removing like 1 page only

    so Lite is going to be over 10 pages
    (I will give you a definite figure soon)

    remmeber we are making AARHE:Lite
    not AARHE with just a handful of rules removed

    I’ve told you from the start and I’ll remind you again
    you need to be more selective
    some things has got to be less important

    ALSO, get rid of that “you lose 4 ipc” thingy from the normal AARHE rules.

    I’ve replied in the other thread.



  • ok test document is 11 pages
    sure we could cut a few things
    but we’ll still be 9 pages

    http://home.exetel.com.au/cometo/aarhe/20080331_AARHE_Lite_preview.pdf

    we really need a portable document of about 5 pages
    so people would actually try it

    another representation…
    things we’ve removed so far, just too few IMO:

    Phase 1: Production Interruption
    Phase 1: Logistics
    Phase 1: Spending or Saving IPC
    Phase 1: Convoy Sea Zone

    Phase 2: Variable Industrial Complex Costs
    Phase 2: Variable Infantry Costs
    Phase 2: Purchase Developments

    Phase 3: Submarine Movement
    Phase 3: Strait Interdiction
    Phase 3: Canals and Waterways
    Phase 3: Terrain
    Phase 3: Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis Co-operation

    Phase 4: Conduct Combat
    Phase 4: Land Combat: Amphibious Assault Sequence, 1st cycle
    Phase 4: Break off
    Phase 4: Naval Combat: Battleships

    Phase 5: Air Transport
    Phase 5: Non-combat Reinforcement
    Phase 5: Strategic Redeployment (optional)
    Phase 5: Other Restrictions

    Phase 6: Industrial Complex Mobilization
    Phase 6: Victory City Mobilization

    Phase 7: Research Progress
    Phase 7: Technology Deployment


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